I'm not looking for a debate/argument…honest. I have a dilemma and would like some advice. My son's father and step-mother are coming to meet him, for the first time. I know I'm nervous, so I can only imagine that what she is going through is a lot worse. In a sense, I'm also relieved that she will be with him. At least I don't have to deal with him alone. Can you ladies maybe give me some advice on how to make this process easier for her and me? At this point, neither one of us cares too much about how this will affect him, but we're [censored]-footing around each other because we don't know what to expect. The BS and I have talked, with him present, and a lot of truths have come to light. We've come to the realization that we are not each other's enemies, just dual victims of the same crime and perpetrator. That has brought some relief, but it hasn't lessened the pain. That's why I've come to you on this matter. You all have experience and knowledge on this and I really do want to learn and gain insight. I don't want to hurt this lady anymore than I already have (through the choices I've made). I can't change the past, but I can try to make the future more tolerable for both of us.<P>I realize that my presence is not the most welcome, but I feel that your experience in this matter could be very beneficial, not only for me, but the BS in my situation. Please reply.

Dear Ohbrat1<BR>I for one am glad to hear of an ow that wants to make things easier for the bs. if only the ow we are dealing with felt the same way. I think your case is a little different, if I understand correctly, because you didn't know the fellow was married. Is that right?<BR>And actually, i welcome your presence here because I would truly like to be able to understand more about how the ow think and feel.<BR>As for steps you can take to make things easier for her, these things may seem like common sense rules, but my h's ow missed them completely:<BR>1. Do not ever refer to you and his intimacy. There is no reason for it, and it will only p.o. the bs. Anything that starts with the words, "Hey remember when we..." will not be welcome, even if there is nothing sexual involved in the comment. <BR>2. Apologize again to the bs. Acknowlege her pain. Something along the lines of, "I know this is difficult for you. I am sorry. What can I do to make this easier?" I would be much better able to deal with ow if I had one single apology. Even if you were a victim too, this gesture will be appreciated. Think of it this way, if you bought someone's stolen carwithout knowing it was stolen, you would still apologize to the original owner for your error.<BR>3.Dont have a multitude of your family/friends present for the v even if you think you need the moral support. This just makes the bs feel ganged up on.<BR>4. Hand your son first to the bs, not the h, because this will make her feel easier about having some interaction with the child. It also shows respect for her position as the wife.<BR>5. if at all possible, when v has begun in earnest, make yourself scarce. In our case, ow occupied the oc's time by playing games and reading books to her so that we had to wait over two hours before oc even really noticed we were there. You could just say you have something to do in another room if leaving the house makes you uncomfortable.<BR>6. Make plans w/bs and her h as to when they will be able to take your son to their home. it is mighty awful for us when the ow fights that all the way.<BR>7. If you have them, you may consider giving bs some baby picture of your s, preferably of course ones that you are not in. I have asked the ow in our case repeatedly to share baby pictures with us so that we can see what oc looked like as a baby. She refuses to even show them to us.<BR>8. Don't make comments on how much s looks like his father. The bs will see this without your help and it will hurt her so much to see it. Give her time to get used to it. Any comments on similarity in looks or mannerisms just reminds bs of how you had a child that only she had the right to bear.<BR>9. If you can, ask bs's opinion on something related to raising children, even if you don't really want or need her opinion. This will make her feel like a more important part of the whole thing.<BR>10. you might consider saying something about how well you are doing with your life, with your new boyfriend, or whatever. That would make the bs feel a little better about the constant fear she has about you trying to win her h back. Even if she "knows" you won't, she is still worrying about it. Maybe you could even remark on what a handsome couple they make. That may sound stupid, but its really not.<BR>11. If bs says something hurtful to you, try your best not to get angry. This is just a defense mechanism, probably stemming from something you have unwittingly done or said that upset her. don't take it personally. You would be surprised what little seemingly innocuous things can be painful to us.<P>Anyway, hope some of this was useful. it's really just stuff that I wished ow had known when we first met oc. Best of luck to you.<BR>-cd

CD,<P>Thanks so much for your quick response. It was very insightful. They're driving in from another state, so visitation at their home is not likely to happen until the baby is a little older. Fortunately, we agree on this. However, I have made it a point to send pictures of the baby to them. I have intentionally taken pictures of the baby by himself, so as not to thrust myself at her. I realize that this baby is not just mine. I have to share him with them, regardless of how hard it is for me. I'm seriously considering having the visitation take place in a park. I really don't want him in my home right now. I'm afraid I might hit him over the head with the nearest heavy object. Besides, I don't think she would be comfortable there. It's where the majority of our time together was spent. I figure that in a park, I can sit apart from them and still keep on eye on my baby. What do you think? I'm wondering how awkward it would be if I handed the baby to her first. Should I talk to her before I do that? Realistically speaking, she may not want anything to do with my son. I don't want to force him into her arms.<BR>

Dear Ohbrat1,<BR>I think that the park would be a great idea! As for handing s to her first, why don't you just say, "Would you like to hold him first?" I can tell you that if she didn't want to have anything to do with your son, she wouldn't be coming. Period. I commend you for your thoughfulness and consideration in this matter. Wish (almost) that you were our ow instead of the one my h picked. i am sure God will bless you for doing what you are doing now to make it easier on bs. I do know this can't be easy for you. You will be in my prayers.<BR>-cd

ohbratti:<P>You impress me with your thoughtfulness and consideration for the Betrayed Spouse. I know if any of us here even had one shred of kindness or generosity that you are displaying from the OW in our situations, our lives wouldn't be filled with so much resentment, fear, anger and insecurity. <P>The pain we feel would begin to heal. By asking this question here on this site, your obvious sensitivity toward the Wife and your genuine concern to do this the right way stuns me. On behalf of the Wife and others like her, I thank you. You will make a painful and difficult experience much more palatable and I will pray that when she leaves, the two of you will feel relief and resolution about the exchange and no longer feel threatened.<P>My only advice, simply because cdcollins addressed everything right on the money, will sound pretty shallow, but here goes anyway: If you are prettier than the Wife, don't doll yourself up. She already has a magnified view of you being everything she isn't and probably struggles with her self image more than ever before. If you are significantly better looking, it will be difficult for her to understand why her husband is with her. If you are not better looking than she is, she will assume you are smarter, funnier, more talented, have a bigger heart, more soul, have a better chemistry or a trick pelvis, and that her husband secretly yearns for you. Which in your case, I hear he does. <P>Either way, she will always wonder what you had that she didn't. If she has children of her own with her husband, she may have it slightly easier than if she is not able to have children at all with him, but you could. She won't realize, in your presence, that it isn't about her or what she lacks or what assets she has, or that you have. It won't be until she leaves that she'll be able to think straight because she will be slightly traumatized by seeing you face to face and she will be thinking about what you did with her husband and looking into the child's face, the constant reminder of that infidelity. <BR>Afterwards, she will probably be able to regroup and realize it is the jerk she is married to that is just that...a jerk. And that there is something wrong with him; not with her, not with you.<P>Depending on how you handle this meeting will determine how things will play out for your child for the rest of his life. You have the power to soothe, you have the power to begin a healing process. Your charitable and contrite attitude says much about you and you are commended.<P>I had a lot of heatburn about you in the beginning but I've changed my mind about you, Ohbratti. God bless you and your son and I will say a prayer everything goes well for both you and the Wife. You seem to be so eager to make her comfortable and show her kindness, it is truly a loving and charitable thing you are doing and I am very happy for you and for the Wife in this impossible situation. The best part about this is that your son is the big winner here. You will find you will be able to trust your son in her care and that she will love him and care for him and feel a tenderness for him because of your initial kindness.<P>Catnip =^^=

Catnip,<P>Wow, I was really surprised to receive a response from you. I really appreciate it. This is a difficult situation for the BS and myself. I want to say that I wish this had never happened, but if I did, then I wouldn't have my son. He is so precious to me. My son is the reason I'm trying so hard to do this right (if there is such a thing). Thinking of his future has inspired me to be more sincere in my attempts to find common ground with her. I could have easily sat on my haunches in righteous indignation over what HE did to ME, but that's not really the right attitude, is it? Before, I don't think I fully grasped or accepted that her pain was greater than mine. I was full of anger and resentment and VERY paranoid. I feel a little more secure in my position as my son's mother. So, now it's about trying to help her feel secure in her position as his wife. CD's advice was very helpful. I didn't expect his wife to meet me half way. I only HOPED that she would at least meet me part of the way, and she has.<BR>

ohbratti, ditto on what catnip said. i remember when you first came here. at the time i felt as if you were here just to provoke us. even though you too were innocent in the whole thing because he lied to you about being married. i could probably forgive the OW in my situation more easily had i known my H lied to her too and she hadn't known he was married. but for most of us the OW knew H was married. that makes it a bit harder to associate with OW. i am sure you can see how hard that would be.<P>i admire that you are worried about how the W must be feeling. i think CD gave wonderful advice. and i wish all 3 of you the best in finding a way to make this situation work. good luck and sorry for anything i might have said last time you were here. <P>happy_girl

Happy_girl,<P>I realized, now, that I wasn't being very open my first time around. I was stuck in a bubble. I believed so strongly that I was right, that I wasn't very open to other perspectives. I was very argumentative, and I DID provoke, although I didn't intend to. I regret that I caused so much commotion. I impeded the healing process for some of the people on this board, and I never meant for that to happen. Anyway, please don't apologize for what you may have said. You expressed your opinion/perspective and stated how you felt. There is nothing wrong with that. <P>As for my current situation, I'm really nervous. It may sound silly, but it's important for me to make a good impression with the wife when they come. She will be a big part of my son's life, and I don't want this to be any harder than need be. I need to find a way to reassure her. If she feels secure, then we (her and I) can hopefully move forward and develop a civil, positive relationship (in regard to my son). I know that we will not be friends, but we can work together and have good results. <P>As for HIM….UGGGHHHH!! I wish this was a business and he was a silent partner, letting his wife handle everything. I've learned the hard way just how wishy washy he is. What he says all depends on whom he's talking to. He fears confrontation and will therefore change his "story" in order to appease. In short, he's a spineless COWARD. But he's still my son's father (sigh). The one thing that he's adamant about is being a part of my son's life. So we all have to make the best of an unpleasant situation. With a little diligence, patience, cooperation AND compassion, we'll find our comfort zone. Right?<BR>

Ohbratti:<P>Please let us know how it goes...we're all very curious...kind of a sneak peek of what could happen in our own situations (not mine!- but, perhaps in others here)<P>I will be very curious to hear how the Wife's demeanor toward you and the child will be. When are they scheduled to arrive? Have you had the opportunity to suggest a neutral meeting place?<P>You and the Wife and the Child will be in my prayers. It would be wonderful to have a relatively happy ending here.<P>Catnip =^^=

ohb.,<BR>Too bad you can't make a job out of passing this good advise etc. on to other XOW w/children by m-men. I'd be happy to give you one's e-dress! <P>I hope it goes well for you all. Your stance on this is great. BTW, I thought the park also was a great idea: neutral territory and you can give them space.

Catnip, they'll be here in about a week. They have a 2-3 day drive, so I guess that says a lot about her wish to participate. We haven't discussed details about the where and the how. They're supposed to call me when they're on their way. I'll bring it up then.<P>Jenny, thanks for the positive words. As for other OW's, I don't know if I can make them understand, but I wouldn't mind trying.<P>OB1<BR>

Ohbratti, you are an example of the diversity of situations that reside here. I am very willing to admit that there is no clear description of how these relationships work. No two are alike. I guess the defining point comes in the respect we show each other (BS, WS, OW, OC) and our intent before, during and after the affair. You were duped by WS. And you and your poor child will have to deal with that. So all OW are not alike. I was sexually active prior to my marriage with my H (same as the situation you were in). I could have ended up pregnant (even though I was on BC) and then found out he had a W somewhere. So most of us could very well have been you.<P>I appreciate your input also. I know that if my H had done the things your MM did and lied to OW, I would most likely be very willing to talk with her & resolve issues. I am even willing to talk to her now, but she refuses. Won't let me around OC and won't let my H bring child to our house. We are just not all cut from the same cloth are we? All any of us can do is take today and deal with it as honorably as possible and with intent to do no harm. I think you have chosen that path.<P>I guess I am really posting this more in response to your post to anthea. Thank you so much for what you said there. Take care...<P>Carolyn

Ohbratti<BR>I am glad to have read your post.<BR>In one reply I read something that stood out like a sore thumb. Paraphrasing of course It is all how this was handled from the beginning.<BR>Knowing that it was a co-worker that knew of my family and her messages and things forwarded in the mail made my decision easy to not be apart of OC at all. Anyone that went out of their way to inflict so much pain as often as they could I would never open a door for it to continue.<BR>The BS in your situation has something I have not expereinced in this ordeal a OW that considers the BS.<BR>Thank You

<BR>OB1,<P>I have to go with catnip on this. You're desire to accept only a fair amount in CS (not the extortionary "guideline" amount), your recognition that the father has rights here, and your sensitivity to the very awkward position his wife is in have all impressed me.<P>Now if I can only get you to drop that strange "birth certificate name automatically equals paternity" tic of yours. <P>Bystander

LOL, okay, okay. Bystander, I had a response all typed up. I was going to explain my viewpoint again, but then I realized something...the only thing that needs to be said is...thank you. Thank you for your recognition of my efforts. I really hope that everything goes well in my situation. We've been through hell and I think we all need a little respite.<P>P.S.<BR>My tic stemmed from extreme paranoia...something I'm working on <BR>

I'm glad you two aren't spoiling for a fight!<P>You two sure could get the fur flying...such strong personalities on this forum! What fun for lively exchanges and intellectual banter. <P>OB1, I knew Bystander couldn't resist tweaking you once more about that 'paternity-birth certificate thing'...I am impressed with your ability to let Bystander do what he does best; win arguments. You must know by now he is extremely adamant and is usually right, anyway. You'd die if you saw how adorable he is.<P>Catnip =^^=