I have read all of your posts here this morning.<BR>I can't EVER accept C. That will end my marriage. I don't want to spend ANY time in courts etc. H will just have to pay his dues alone.<P>The thought of that sickens me. I know in my heart that God has a better plan for my life if anything should happen to my marriage.<P>I too, would fear he would sneak if C is his.<BR>I can't live with those demons in my mind for years to come.<P>In the past 3 1/2 months I have read about all the legal problems and "missing" money it takes for C to live on. I will not subject myself to that sacrifice.<P>H made the decision to humpty the married woman friend of ours(?). I did nothing wrong.<BR>Midlife crisis? She made him feel handsome? PHULEEZE!!!! If she comes after him for paternity(which he says she will) and it's his,I'm not sure I'll stay.<P>She won't win. He'll never be w/her.<P>I just can't share finances w/another womans C. Period.<P>Just my thoughts.<BR> Debi<BR> <P><P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Gem,<BR>I to felt that way. I can remember telling him a few hours after he had told me he had slept with some one else and not used protection that no way would he have me if I had to deal with this. Then thinking we were in the clear and bam hit with the scab reporting to me she had my h son again I said no way will I be a part in this. A millon times I felt that way. I think its a normal reaction you want him to be punished for being so stupid. My h lived a life growing up a lot like cds h he was put in foster care when he was 14. His parents have no clue what a family is all about and that was how he was raised. I often thought I was living with two men there was one that was a wonderful father and so loving. Then there was this other that was a total A** wipe. I think if this would not have turned out the way it did with oc being his.I think he would have easily sliped back to that A** wipe that I couldnt stand. This seems to be a constant reminder to him of the person he never wants to be again. I now can say it is good that I didnt give up and walk away.Its been almost 2 years now may 5 coming soon things are really better in some ways than ever. Gem hang in there and see what happens what you are feeling is normal but you can do it. with love flowerseed

Dear Gemini,<BR>When I got married, I told myself that if my h ever cheated, I would get a divorce. When my h cheated, I told myself if she gets pregnant, I will get a divorce. When she got pregnant, I told myself if it is h's I will get a divorce. When DNA tests proved it was h's I told myself if he has to pay cs, I will get a divorce. When he had to pay cs, I told myself if I ever have to go through visitation and see oc/ow again, I will get a divorce.<P>I am not getting a divorce, so that either makes me an extremely adaptable person, or one heck of a liar.<P>The toughest part for everybody here, I think, is seeing that money go to the ow. Like we have all said, it is like the ow stole something frrom us, and now we have to pay for it. Deciding whether or not to include oc in our lives is actually much easier to deal with because in that, we have a choice. We have the ability to decide. With cs, there is no choice whatsoever. That makes it the very worst part of the whole thing in my eyes.<P>I don't know what to tell you to make this easier to deal with, because honestly NOTHING makes it easier. If you are like me though, when the time comes to pay cs, you will not want to give the ow the satisfaction of seeing that she was finally able to break up your marriage.<P>My biggest argument against you leaving your h is that ow will still THINK that she has won. That is a lousy argument, I know. So of course you must do whatever is right for you, and of course no one here will judge you which ever way you decide to go.<P>I don't know what else to say right now except that whatever you decide to do I will be praying for you.<BR>With love,<BR>cd.

Flowerseed and CDCollins,<BR>I hear what you both are saying.<BR>Our 27th anniversary is Friday.<BR>This year, I'm only focusing on beeing unwrapped(boobs),not the meaning of the day.<P>This morning he said he isn't the blame for our son's depression......<P>Well, I said "of course not! If your Dad picked you up from work one day and told you what you told Michael I'm SURE your mental health would be just fine!"(he told our son on thurs. and made him keep secret till mon. when he strapped on some balls and told me!)<P>Then he says,"see what I mean? I'm gonna have to hear this the rest of my life"<P>I said,"You won't have to hear it the rest of your life, but don't try to minimize the mental damage you have done to me or Michael"<BR>to which I added "you don't have to hear it forever, you can live your life without me and just THINK about it the rest of your life."<P>So he says"Oh you're perfect"<BR>I said "NO I'm not, but while I tried to work out any problems we had in our marriage you ignored me to seek solace in the arms of another woman, something I would never think of doing. So if that makes me perfect, so be it!" <P>Well he quietly left for work.<P>To damn bad. He's trying to pass off the guilt and hell yes I want to punish that!<P>My priest is coming over tomorrow morning for our session. I can't wait!<P>But you guys,I'm serious about "if it's his".<BR>I just do not see sticking around in this cesspool forever. I won't be able to heal. I'll remain infected. I want to heal with a minimal scar.<P>At this point who cares if she feels she won CD? I don't get that reasoning. <P> Debi

gem,<P>This is where I get upset. I didn't even get a chance to reason out these things. I found out when my h got served with papers. Here I was with a one year old, no job. And it was announced to me that we had to pay child support for a two year old, from a one night stand. Talk about having an annoucement. I think as far as whether you can stay or not is also based on your h reaction and contact. I said that if there was contact I was out of there, no contact, we moved, so I stayed. But I am still struggling. Your h's attitude has always been a problem. I mean who's fault is it the boogie man??? He needs a reality check! I hope your counseling session does that. How are you feeling as far as surgery recovery, you sound good. <P>babstr.

Dear gem,<BR>I wasn't saying that YOU should care if ow feels like she "won". I'm just saying that I care very much about it. If for no other earthly reason, I will stay with my husband forever just so she knows her quest to break us up was a bust. now fortunately for me, I love my h very dearly so staying with him is not such a bad thing, ha, ha!<P>I am not suggesting in any way that you should stay with h just to keep ow from feeling like the winner. In fact, my inability to see this whole thing as anything other than a huge battle between "good" and "evil" is probably a sign that I have a lot of growing up to do emotionally. Still, I have come a long way. In fact, I have scrapped the plan to give my h a hickey right before we meet up with ow at the custody conference. How is that for maturity, eh?<P>Anyway, whatever choice you make, it should be one that fits in place with your own perspective. It is real easy for me to sit on the sidelines and say, "this is why I do the things i do" but your choice has to be made based on what YOU feel.<P>IMO, the first thing that you need to deal with isn't the ow/oc at all. It is your h's refusal to accept the responsibility for his actions. It took a LONG LONG LONG time before my h was able to say "What I did in having the affair was MY fault" At first, he tended to stick with "Yes, I made a mistake, but I wouldn't have done it if you wouldn't have done such and such..." We were not able to really move forward as a team until that was out of the way, and I couldn't really make decisions at all until we got to that point.<P>BTW, how ARE the twins? I hope they are all set for their big debut!<BR>-cd

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cdcollins:<BR><B>I have scrapped the plan to give my h a hickey right before we meet up with ow at the custody conference.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>cd!<P>No, no, no, Mon Frer! For real impact, the hickey should be on YOU, n'est pas?<P>Catnip =^^=<P>

Dear Catnip,<BR>We did that last time. Tee, hee!<BR>cd

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gemini1:<BR><B>I'm serious about "if it's his".<BR>I just do not see sticking around in this cesspool forever. I won't be able to heal. I'll remain infected. I want to heal with a minimal scar.<P>At this point who cares if she feels she won CD? I don't get that reasoning.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Gem:<P>I'm thinking you are more self assured than some of us here, me included. You don't feel the need to "win" like I do and cd does. The fact that you're so determined not to live in this "cesspool" forever and get out of this with minimal scarring is a self preservation I admire greatly. You know you will be OK with or without your husband. It has only been a few months since I have felt this way.<P>I, too, said I would never stay if my husband cheated, then got her pregnant, then if the DNA came back positive, or if we would be saddled with unreasonable child support; and yet I stayed through it all just so I could win...win what? The booby prize? I don't know. <P>All I know is that I was desperate to stay in the marriage, I needed my husband to want me and love me again like before. Once I knew he did, I was able to relax and look at other options for myself.<P>I've been struggling as to whether or not I want to stay in this marriage. It took me two and a half years to get to this point. But, now, Gem, now I am feeling as though I wish to stay with him because I do love him and we do have a special bond and can have a new beginning. We weathered the nightmare together and we became closer and in some ways, we are better than we have ever been.<P>It has been rewarding for me to go through all this and emerge with a greater understanding of our relationship and take it to a greater depth and survive it all. I finally have the self-assuredness I lacked in the past and know I can make it with or without him. But, I choose to stay.<P>For me, the worst thing wasn't the money, and it should have been because they are taking three quarters of his paycheck. For me, the worst thing was to have our exclusivity and our fidelity broken. I absolutely loved being just with one man and that man just being with me. Total fidelity. It meant everything to me, I mean everything. Ahhh, it was sweet, so sweet while it lasted for 18 years. <P>So, we all have our own particular and specific issue when it comes to this Pandora's Box of issues we are dealing with.<P>Your confidence is inspiring and healthy. <P>Catnip =^^=<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In fact, I have scrapped the plan to give my h a hickey right before we meet up with ow at the custody conference. How is that for maturity, eh?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh! CDCollins! You made me laugh so hard! Think "high school" with those thoughts! ha! ha! ha!<P>On a serious note. Our son fought depression in 11th grade in school. He was treated w/zoloft and after going off of the drug was doing ok.(it was a first love thing...the girl broke it off. Good thing cuz his new girl is an absolute "gem") So knowing that,H thinks he's able to go off the deep end at any time! Geeze-o-man!!!! <BR>I simply said it took news of that magnitude to bring it all on again!<P>He does show remorse to me always. But his saying depression in Michael is "not his fault" is bullshi*. Plain and simple.<BR>See before I would say nothing to stir the pot so to speak....NOW...I have to say things. I refuse to be a prisoner in fear of him leaving.<P>Catnip, maybe my new found attitude comes from the knowledge his and my families will stand behind any decision I will make. You know? I won't have to be alone.<P>I am by no means a Gloria Steinam?(spelled right?). I want to share my life w/someone.<BR>I HOPE it's my H.<P>I'm just saying that if not the world won't stop. I do believe God will have a better plan.<P>As far as the "girls"....I went yesterday for 1st post-op. Everythings doing well. I didn't fess up to remembering ANYTHING about surgery when DR. asked. I'm horrified those words came out of my mouth!!!!! HA! HA! HA!!!<P>I'll be unwrapped Friday morning. I look big! But I'm all taped and gauzed bra-style.<BR>Really no pain. A little discomfort upon getting up from a reclining position,but that's it.<P>BTW...I still will have to wear a sports bra 24hrs. for 2 more weeks after Friday. My H was instructed "no playing just yet" from the nurse....heh...heh.. I'll be able to take a full shower and shave these hairy pits though....yea!!!! I can only sit in tub for now and "sponge" top 1/2 of my body.<P>As far as playing goes....he better behave from now on or no playing for him..... <P><BR>Gonna go "nap" a little. see ya all later.<P> Love from me and the girls.....<BR> Debi<P>ps. I only used vicodin Fri and 1/2 pill Sat. I take tylenol if I need it at night. I think I'm doin' fine.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Dear gem, <BR>I should add that honestly I wouldn't have stayed with my h if he hadn't turned out to be a better man for it. I see this whole thing as a sort of cataclysmic event, and despite the horrilbe destruction that occured, my h was "reborn" as the man I had always hoped he would be. Our marriage has since been like the pheonix rising from the ashes: beautiful, stronger, more committed, more joyful.<BR>For me a lot of times it is about winning. But more importantly it is about loving this man I call my husband. And I do. You have to see what you really think about your h and his character and base your decisions on that alone and you will be ok.<BR>-cd

Hi Gem,<P>I rarely post these days, but always lurk. You guys are my only support network as I have no family and only a few acquaintances. <BR>ANYWAY...just had to say WOW about your new "girls" and plans and strength.<P>Because so many of you are doing what I would like to but no longer care enough to do myself, I sort of live a life vicariously through all of the positive experiences I read about here. I really admire you, and just wanted you to know that.<P>Love, anniem

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But more importantly it is about loving this man I call my husband. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Me too,CD, me too. He just pisses me off when he says "do I have to hear this the rest of my life?" when it was him who brought up the subject in the first place.<P>And he who caused this upheaval in the first place. ya know?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have no family and only a few acquaintances. <BR>ANYWAY...just had to say WOW about your new "girls" and plans and strength.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That must be difficult anniem not having a confidant. Do you have a counsler or someone at your church who is willing to talk? It really helps.<P>My girls are something I thought about for years but silicone scared me away. I have saline. I also have a new found happier personality to go with my new body.<P>I do miss my daily exercise! I can start walking Friday. I do THAT for my mind.<BR>Try that too. I tell ya it helps like no pill I ever took.<P>Thanks for the kind words everyone.<BR> Debi ta ta's<BR><P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Dear Gemini,<P>Believe it or not, 3 and 1/2 months is still not a long time to deal with this issue. I was only starting to feel human after three-four months.<P>You know that I share you feelings about not being able to deal with the OC. From time to time I still feel guilty. And, Lord knows, I get depressed every once in a while.<P>But, Debi, nothing is perfect. And, if it wasn't the OC, there would be something else to drive us crazy in our marriage. The obstacles that are placed in our way are not as important as how we learn to handle them.<P>I truly believe that my H was also shaken by this event. He believed he was in control and he could handle the subterfuge without getting caught. I believe that he will never cheat on me again -- if not out of love -- out of complete fear that another woman would trap him the same way.<P>It has been a terrible way for him to mature, but he did. <P>Like you, I still want to punish him sometimes for the hell he has put me through. But, unfortunately, neither one of us has forgiven our H's in our heart. Since my last bout of depression, my H and I have been talking very openly about a lot of issues surrounding the OW/OC. And, for the first time, I really believe I am starting to forgive him.<P>It has worked to my advantage being the victim. But being a victim has been hurting me more than it has been hurting him. For both our sakes, I don't want to hurt anymore. I want life to be normal again but to do that I have to truly forgive him. I have to acknowledge his weaknesses and still know that I love him despite them.<P>What you are experiencing now is still the emotion of finding out this devastating news. For now, your anger is correct and you should be treated gently and with great respect by your H. But your need to punish him won't last forever.<P>I would encourage you to give it some more time -- to read as much as you can because the self-help relationship books truly help you to figure out what you want. And keep talking to the survivors who have made it through this horrible thing. We're beaten, battered at times, but we have risen and flown again. I believe you will too.<P>All my prayers are with you at this difficult time.<BR>love, heavenly

Heavenly,<BR>I sure am glad your back.I love to read your replies they always comfort me. {We're beaten, battered at times, but we have risen and flown again} Yes we have Ye ha. with love flowerseed

gemini,<P>i am so glad your surgery went well. and that the "twins" are doing good. <P>i totally understand how you feel with regards to the OC. i personally could not accept if my H wanted a relationship with her. i would have to leave, period.<P>it is such a tough place to be right now. especially since this is all so new. i hate the idea that our money will be going to her. but i also don't think that the state should support her, and that is what she has been doing. i think that he financially is obligated under the law, and we will do so. personally i would like to tell her to go to he*%, but it wouldn't help. <P>i will say a prayer for you. take care of you. okay?<P>happy_girl

Heavenly,<BR>Maybe the problem is that I am feeling human again.<BR>I have read "after the affair" and Dr.Phil's relationships books.<BR>H hasn't brought up prospect of C since Jan. counsel session where he said he will do nothing when C is born. If she sues and it's his,he will pay....no relationship. Fr. Bliss said he will honor that but is "struggling" because he wants me and our son in his life and knows how we feel. hmmmm.....<P>You think 3 1/2 months isn't long? Where were you guys at that point?<P>He's planning a 4 day annual golf trip April 1st. I asked when WE were going to go away? I know money is tight....but you would think he'd plan a get-away for us! He was talking Bahamas....now he's too busy at work to commit. But he's still going golfing just like every year....see? pisses me off. <P>I want him to court me like he did after d-day. I'm sick of HIS depressed moods.<P>He's been crying at the drop of a hat for weeks now....forgets to kiss me goodbye some days....forgets the unexpected hugs lately...Hasn't said "I love you" for weeks. When I say something gently about it he answers "You know how much I love you, Debi" then I say how I'd like to HEAR it.<P>It's like I'm meeting his EN's and he's wallowing in sorrow and has temporarily forgotten mine.<P>I agree with Flowerseed Heavenly, Your posts sure wake me up! To rethink.<P>Does this sound at all like any of your H's soon after?<P>Happy-Girl thanks for prayers and good will. I appreciate it!<P> Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

gem, <BR>you are way farther along then I was. I couldnt do anything at 3 months but cry after I found out about oc. I was a mess for a long time. It was almost a relief when I found out about him cheating. I dont really want to say a relief but it explained his crazy behavior somewhat.Its different because I didnt know about the cheating or oc at the time he was going threw what your h is. He was depressed. I remember he didnt want to do anything but run away he was always doing something to get away from me, didnt take care of himself,didnt spend any time with our little girl it was awful. After I found out he would tell me he loved me all the time still does but words dont mean s*** to me anymore actions are the only thing I can believe in. It doesnt take much at all for your mind to get set off into thinking crazy things. I am just now able to somewhat get threw things that remind me of that time period. Without going off on a nut. I still get angry and discusted about things. When these ow come here with there brainless thoughts I get angry thinking how could he have ever did this with someone like that. It will be nice out soon gem I think it will get better when you can get outside and show off your new twins. If you would have told me two yrs ago that I would be this thrilled about someones new boobs. I would have thought you were nuts. I think its great what you have done. with love flowerseed

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you would have told me two yrs ago that I would be this thrilled about someones new boobs. I would have thought you were nuts. I think its great what you have done. with love flowerseed<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know Flowerseed....I know....I would make fun of fake ones while all the while I wished for a more "womanly" chest. I'll look better in my clothes now. I'm not too big...I think! ha..ha..<P>Last summer my H was completely withdrawn. I felt awful most days thinking it was impending lawsuit over a business building he built for this guy who wouldn't finish paying for the building. H lost suit it was over thirty-one thousand dollars.(actually didn't go thru w/lawsuit as lawyer advised him judges around here usually side against contractors.) Well that threw him into a tailspin and he was (and still is)living job to job. He's not used to that. We always HAD money.<P>Anyway, he was distant,non talking, mean at times, just "different".<BR>He was also trying to shake ow who was threatening him to tell me. He's so full of shi* though...because if he DIDN'T want to boink her anymore he wouldn't have done it that fatal last time!!!!!<P>Regardless of the "infrequency" of the times they were together, and the short duration of the A, and the short time it took him to finish when they were together, I think he fell in love for a period of time. H says no. I don't believe him.<P>You know he said she told him he was the most handsome man and best lover she was ever with.(like I never f'n said that). I used to call him my "gift" during our times,not any more though.<P>Also he couldn't perform a few weeks this summer. Not in detail, but he said "when I couldn't be with you I couldn't be with her either.(that must have been a funny back seat scene...in her F-MOBILE,which she drives around town in w/her kids in the back seat!)<P>I just chalked it up to stress.<P>I have to tell you when I saw her dissoloution in the paper I got a queer feeling....I sensed something! I thought for a brief moment not knowing why my H was leaving me. I swear I never thought anything before! Just all the time he spent drinking beer over there w/her mom and stuff started to make sense.<P>That was halloween weekend. D-day was Nov. 13.<P>How's that for intuition?<P>The words hit me like nothing I've ever experienced before...."Deb,I was seeing Jen, but it's been over for a long time....but there's something else...she's pregnant....<BR>yadda...yadda...yadda....<P><BR>I want to be with you. Don't leave me , please. I love you. I never loved her. I'm so so sorry Deb,I never wanted to hurt you. Please, Deb....talk to me...."<P>That's it. Here I am now. <P>BTW...he made a point of kissing me and telling me he loved me this morning. He's a jeckyl and hyde....<P>Thanks Flowerseed I love to hear I'm doing better....I like to know where others were at my point, ya know?<P>I can't wait for spring....but then again her due date is May 1st......<P> Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Dear Gem,<BR>At the 3-4 month point after finding out ow was pregnant, I was such a mess that I can't even remember clearly what it was like. Honestly, I think that it is your mind's way of protecting you by allowing you to forget some of it later. Just like when a person is in a horrible car accident, they often can't remember the actual trauma of it later. What I do remember now is so fuzzy and out-of-focus. but i do know that I was a wreck. One thing that I remember is thinking that there must be something to the old myth that the heart is where your emotions are stored because I actually had a heavy physical pain in the center of my chest from it. My broken heart was as real physically as it was emotionally. Just felt like I had been hit with a sledgehammer that went clear to my soul. For me it didn't just take months, it took YEARS for that to dissipate. sounds to me like you are doing great for where you are in all of it.<BR>-cd