I'm new here and this is my first time posting...Let me tell you a little bit about my story. I was married for 5 years. My affair only lasted for a month and after D-Day I quit and have no contact with the OM anymore. However, H stills think I see the OM. I just don't know how to explain to him and have him listen to me. He doesn't believe a word I said. After D-Day, I knew myself that I made a mistake and asked H for forgiveness...I was pregnant and on my knees begging him to forgive me but instead he pushes me away. He said the baby wasn't his. He yelled, screamed and verbally abuses me. I was so stressed that I had to go to surgery for labor. After labor, I asked him to come to hospital but he refused and still denys that it wasn't his baby. A few mos later, I had a DNA test done, low and behold... he was the biological father of my daughter. She is now almost 4 mos but he hasn't seen her at all and probably never will.<P>I learnt my listen and know my mistake very well. I'm willing to do anything I mean anything for him to forgive me and have the family back. Unfortunately, he thinks I used the baby to want him back and that I don't love him. This is not true. I love him very much and I was happy to carry his baby eventhough he was never there with me througout my pregnancy. All he wanted now is divorce. His attorney called me last week to confirm my address. I was in tear and couldn't concentrate on my work. I just wished we can talk it out and start it slowly and see why, how, we can improve the marriage. None the less, he never wanted to rebuild the marriage. He said it was over since D-Day!. :-(<P>

kkeo,<P>i think that for men it seems to be harder to accept and forgive their wife of having an affair. i am not sure if it is because they think that women's affairs are often more emotionally based than men's affairs or what. i know that to me it seems like a lot of men's affairs are more physical than emotional, and when a woman has an affair, it is assumed that she was "in love" with the OM. i was in the opposite position, my H cheated on me, and it was only physical. it wasn't easy, but i chose to stay and work on our marriage. <P>i guess i would want to know if you guys were having problems before and maybe this is his way out. like maybe before you both were not sure of your marriage, and now he feels like he at least has a reason not to stay and work on the marriage. if not, then i guess he is most likely one of those guys who just can't accept the fact that his wife cheated on him. i really think for men, they have a much harder time accepting it. it is a blow to their ego and they just can't go back.<P>i don't know what to say except that if you want to save your marriage, try to talk to him and do everything in your power to try to recapture your husband's love. if he doesn't want to come back, then at least you know that you tried the best you could. i won't lecture you, as i am sure you already have thought over a million times about how wrong the affair was. i will say a prayer for you, that your husband will find it in his heart to forgive you.<P>happy_girl

Dear kkeo,<P>It sounds as if you are sincerely remorseful about what you have done. Although I am the betrayed spouse, I understand where you are coming from because I know that my h would have a much harder time forgiving me if I had had an affair than I did forgiving him. Happygirl is right when she says that for men take it more as an ego thing than women do. I am wondering how he found out. did you confess voluntarily or did he find out on his own first?<P>I'm not sure what to tell you except to take things really slow, like baby steps. Maybe you could see if your h would at least consent to having lunch with you, or perhaps you could write him a letter explaining how much you want to work things out. Sometimes it is easier to write out what you want to say and that may have a bigger effect on him. In some states, if one of the parties objects to the divorce, the courts order the couple to go through counseling sessions before the divorce can be finalized. Look into what your state regulations are and see if this is the case. If so, maybe you can insist that you go together for counseling before he gets to divorce you.<BR>The important thing in all of this is to remind him what the two of you had in the beginning when you first fell in love with each other.<P>You might also consider buying the book "surviving an affair" and sending it to him with a note, asking him to read through it before he continues with the divorce proceedings.<P>I'm guessing that some of the men here might be able to give you some good advice from a betrayed husband's perspective. K, floored, and sailorman come to mind.<P>Anyway, I will pray for you.<BR>-cd<BR>

kkeo,<BR>I know my H said if I were the betrayer he'd leave me. He was the one who betrayed me. <P>I do think most men feel as if their wives are their property so to speak. Like our bodies belong to them exclusively. If we break that, we are tainted forever.<P>If your H is the father I wonder why he won't give you a chance to prove yourself to him.<BR>How did he know of A ?<BR>Did you tell him?<BR>How long ago? Four months?<P>I will pray for God to heal your new family. Pray for that too, kkeo.<BR>Take it slow. I wish there were a magic trick to turn your H around.<P>Get into counseling. Maybe you can start at church, but it helps a great deal. Maybe then H would be open to go w/you.<P>Bless you.<BR> Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

kkeo:<P>You're in a tough spot. I would suggest that you get into marriage counseling immediately, even if your husband won't join you. I counseled with Steve Harley through the MarriageBuilder's phone counseling service (888-639-1639), and I found it was a terrific resource---I highly recommend it.<P>My suggestion for you would be to learn about Plan A and Plan B, which are illustrated in Harley's book <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>Surviving an Affair</A>. The application of Plan A for you would be a bit "backwards" from how it's presented in SAA (Plan A is usually used by the betrayed spouse to negotiate an end to the affair), but it illustrates what you should be doing to rebuild your marriage. In essence, you want to be following the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>four rules for a successful marriage</A>: Protection (avoiding lovebusters), Care (meeting spouse's Emotional Needs), Honesty (complete), and Time.<P>It's going to be difficult for you to cover all the bases if your husband is separated from you and intent on following through with a divorce. I would suggest that you get an attorney who can help protect you through this, but at the same time delay the action for as long as possible.<P>I'm a bit surprised that your husband is willing to push divorce (with it's associated cost of child support for 18 years) if you are truly "in love" with him and willing to reconcile. Your only real option at this point is to consistantly demonstrate that love to him, and hope that he softens up.

Dear k,<BR>I knew you would lay it out line by line for kkeo. i always like to read your responses because they are so clear and concise and to the point, and you always show how the harvey philosophy applies to each situation.<P>I am hoping, when the time comes for us to actually restart visitation, that you will give me some advice on accepting this child into my life. i know that we don't have the same situations, but the way you put things always makes sense to me. So I hope you'll give me your opinions as I wade through this mess.<P>It would be so much easier for me if we had full custody of oc. I don't think that I would have any problems in raising her as one of my own. But I'm not sure about how I will be with just having her here now and then, you know? I wish that we would have had the option to just adopt her when she was first born. I could have done that easily.<P>Anyway, I am on a "show appreciation to everybody that helps me" kick, so I wanted you to know that reading your posts always pulls me back down to earth when I have my head in the clouds. Thanks.<BR>-cd

<BR>kkeo, while the actual calculation of child support depends on the state, the general rule is that the noncustodial parent gets extorted when family incomes get above $35k/year or so. This unfairness is usually enough to discourage men from suing for divorce, even when they otherwise feel its the right thing to do. In that sense, I'm with K - I'm a bit surprised that your H is pushing for divorce so aggressively.<P>There's a perception that men find it harder to forgive infidelity than women. It might be true, but I've never seen any conclusive evidence showing that effect. For example, Pittman (in <I>Private Lies</I>) found no difference in filing behavior between betrayed men and betrayed women. Similarly, John Gottman in <I>The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work</I> noted that an affair is ranked very low as a reason for divorce, around 5th or 6th place. The couples in the survey cited by Gottman realized, I think, that an affair is usually more symptomatic of marital dysfunction than causal.<P>Bystander

Bystander,<BR>Just out of curiousity, what are some of the higher ranking reasons for divorce? I would have thought an affair was higher up on the list.<BR>cd

<BR>cd,<P>I don't have my Gottman book in front of me, but IIRC reasons like "growing apart" and "emotional distance" were very high on the list. No longer friends was the general idea...The big thing coming out of Gottman and Pittman's research is that most affairs are about friendship and being respected. The sex is usually incidental to that. If you want, I'll yank the book off the shelf and look up the reasons later.<P>To be honest, I winced when reading parts of <I>Passionate Marriage</I> because sooner or later something in that book hits really close to home. I think that's probably the case with just about anyone who has ever been in a long term relationship. Even so, most of the couples in <I>Passionate Marriage</I> were so dysfunctional I was amazed. But reading Gottman's books was also an eye opener. I had no idea people treated their spouses so viciously...below the courtesy they would give a total stranger. Its quite sad.<P>The funny thing is, I'm sympathetic to the idea that men find it harder to forgive infidelity than women. If its true, it probably has to do with the reality that sexualizing a relationship is the usually the woman's call. A lot of ramifications follow from that. A betrayed woman can tell herself that its "just about sex" and even if its not true, its at least possibly true. But how is a betrayed man supposed to defend ego? He can't say, "Its just about sex," because that implies he had to work to seduce his wife but some OM didn't...or that he chose a promiscuous woman (which is ego threatening)...or that she really is in love with the OM. There's no way to defend an ego in such a situation.<P>But I just haven't seen any evidence that this is the case. At least it doesn't show up in divorce stats. Its possible that men pledge to forgive but use the affair as a weapon in marital arguments for longer than women do, or men have more retaliation affairs, or something like that. I've never seen data to that effect, either.<P>Bystander

cd:<P>You're welcome... <P>When your time comes to start visitation with the OC, I'll be happy to give you advice. I bet you know what it is, already...<P>1. Follow the POJA with your husband regarding all aspects of the visitation.<P>2. Enjoy the child.<P>Pretty basic stuff. There's no "right way" to deal with this in terms of specifics---the most important thing is that the two of you agree on the way to deal with it, in a manner that builds love between the two of you. From that, everything else will fall into place.

Bystander and K,<BR>You guys are right. I just think it's that way with older men and wives. I could be wrong. I heard it from the horses' mouth about what my H would do. and he'll be 48 Sunday.<P>I have to tell you something. Since d-day we've gone out to eat with friends of ours whose H always comments on how he thinks I'm so hot(in front of my H) in a friendly way too. Well he made a comment that night too and his wife laughed and said "He would love a wife who looked like you and who could cook like you and keep house like you etc." On the way home my H all of a sudden became threatened and said"He likes you too much and I don't like it. If you left me he'd be right at your door(wouldn't want him). He better watch out.Etc....<P>See? He betrayed me. He knows that isn't in my blood or morals, yet he felt threatened! I mean this guy ALWAYS complimented me, never tried anything but still comments on me from time to time. I just don't get the jealousy. It wasn't there before he cheated. Maybe sometimes, but now that he did it, why would he worry I would? <P>It's funny. Cheating is the last thing on my mind. I don't want to share my body intimately with anyone but my H.<P>Oh he said just wait till he sees your new chest!(please!)<P>I just don't get it.<BR> Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

gem,<BR>for what it's worth, my h is the same way (he's 28). He is always concerned that I will leave him for somebody better, now that he has cheated himself. I get frustrated because I feel like he ought to get it through his thick (but adorable) head that I am not going anywhere. It's like he is assigning his own weaknesses to me. He feels very threatened now by anybody admiring me, and he never was before the affair happened.<BR>I think maybe there is more to your h's insecurity than you previously thought- and i still think that the oc situation might play into it, at least a little.<P>your poor ol' h will just have to get used to the fact that you are a total knockout! Maybe he should buy you a stick to beat the men off with. Might make him feel better knowing you are well armed, haha!<BR>-cd

gemini:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I could be wrong. I heard it from the horses' mouth about what my H would do. and he'll be 48 Sunday.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'll tell you something. Anyone of us has preconceived notions about how we'd react to finding out our spouse has had an affair. But until you actually have to deal with it---you don't have a clue to how you'll act and react. You can't possibly---there's no way to prepare for that.<P>If someone had come up to me five years ago and asked me what I would do if my wife had an affair, I'm sure that I would have:<P>1. Not really been able to imagine her having an affair<P>2. said "I'd probably divorce her".<P>I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't have said that I'd tough it out in Plan A for 6 months, followed by Plan B, followed by discovering her pregnant, followed by more Plan A, followed by raising a child who wasn't my own...<P>You get the idea. Your husband probably doesn't have a clue as to what he'd do. I don't think any of us really do.<P><BR>

<BR>K is really right. Most people (men and women) declare that they would divorce if they learned of infidelity. But until they actually face the situation, there's no way of knowing. Anyhow, Pittman's data show that its usually the betrayer who wants to divorce, by a 3:1 ratio (again, no sex difference).<P>Still, I think we can all imagine situations that really would lead us to divorce. About 15 years ago a friend of mine got into this torrid romance and brought this woman to meet me. A few days later he asked me what I thought of her. I told him, gently, that I thought she was psycho and that he should drop her. Well, they got married and not too long after that, say six months, he filed for divorce. The reason? She tried to stab him to death! Now there's a good reason to divorce, IMO. Staying around people who try to kill you could be hazardous to your health!<P>Bystander

kkeo,<BR>Welcome to our board. I am so sorry that your H seems so adamant in wanting a divorce. I really don't have any advice except to say you have to let him know that you are DEDICATED to making your marriage and family work. His ego has been crushed by your affair but I think in time he will realize it really could have been much worse (your little girl could have been the OM). Hang in there,pray kkeo, and take it one day at a time. Come here for support and advice, we will help you as much as we can.<BR>God bless.

K,<BR>You are so right. I was definitely one of those people who said that if h ever cheated I would get a divorce. Was I ever wrong!<P>Now, I try not to say with too much certainty what I would or wouldn't do in a given hypothetical situation. I think God, the great pratical joker in the sky, has way to much fun making me eat my words.<BR>Haha!<BR>-cd

K and CD, I too had said that if I ever found out about an affair I would get a divorce. And as cd said , was I also ever wrong. An ex-friend of mine know about the OC before I had found out. I did not know it then but she was friends with the OC's mother, she used to get info from me and my life and give it to the oc's mother. Boy was I ever made when I found out how she was burning both ends of the candle, being my friend or so I thought and being the oc's mother's friend. She asked me a few times if I thought my H had ever cheated on me and what I would do if I ever found out, my reply to her, my H never, and if he did I told her I would probably pull a larina Bobbit. Well I did not do that to my h he is still intact, and divorce never entered my mind. GABI!!!^

kkeo, I am so sorry to hear about the situation you are in. I am sure it must be difficult for you and to have to care for a small baby. Do you go to any type of counseling, if not for your marriage maybe for your own peace of mind. MAybe with some couseling you will be better able to deal with all the issues of your situation. Speaking to you husband will be the first step, if he will not speak to you for you, then ask his to at least speak to you for the sake of his child. Maybe in time he will realize it is in the best interest of his own child to try and work some things out with you. Wish I could be of more help you are in my prayers, GABI1116

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>your poor ol' h will just have to get used to the fact that you are a total knockout<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't know cd.....total knockout isn't how I see me. After all I'll be 48 this June but as Catnip says I don't look a day over 35!(Got carded though 2 summers ago when I ordered a beer from a young kid bartender!)heh...heh...<P>Now K and Bystander,I think you're right on the betrayer wanting a divorce. It's what I've read here a lot on the other forums.<BR>My first counsel session(ugh)I was asked what would be worse? H telling me about A? OR H saying he was leaving for ow? It was then I saw a smidgen of light in lieu of what happened. In spite of a card a day in the mail professing his love it took me hearing that to allow him to even call me after 5 days of me not speaking to him or wanting to.<P>As far as what he'd do, you're right...we only can say that answer when faced with betrayal ourselves.<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Thank you everyone very much for giving me the courage and advice. Every comments mean so much to me and help to cheer me up and for me to become stronger. <P>Just want to let you know, all this happen in the early of last year and right after D-Day he moved out while I was at work. When I got back home, all my stuff, computer, stereo, TV, karaoke..pretty much everything he took with him. He also took $30,000 and all my jewelry with him as well. He said "I deserve it!". I guess I did deserve it at that time. I blame myself for all the thing that happened. While, I was pregnant, he yelled, screamed, cursed at me ,...you name it...he called me all kinds of name. But I told myself that I was the one who made the mistake and that I should deserve all this...<P>I tried talking to him. We went to Hawaii mid of last year to work it out and I thought everything was fine. Unfortunatly, when we got back, he said "it's over". I was shock. He was just using me. I beg him and cried my eyes out but was no avail. I called him almost every week to see how he's doing yet I also get yelled at for calling him. He doesn't want to listen to my voice or hear me. So, after my baby was born, I finally gave up trying...I've tried so much and do everything I can to give my marriage a chance unfortunatly, he abuses it! In order to rebuild the marriage, both side has to be willing....<P>I went to counseling after the Hawaii trip because I was getting bad cramps due to stress. Well, you may wonder why he push for divorce so bad ... it's because he doesn't have to pay child support. I told him I don't want anything for him. He said the baby wasn't his and never want to be part of her life so why should I take his money to support my chile? Do you get it?! <P>He just drop me an email again today...and said he filed the divorce already and need my address. Can I stop the divorce paper? If So, how? I'm from California. I wanted to get counseling from Dr.Harley as well but I'm the only one whose wants this marriage to work. Does it work? I've tried many ways to rebuild my marriage but to no avail. Should I go ahead and give my H the address and start the divorce paper or what do you think I should do? I don't want the divorce at all. I still love and care for him very much ... Any suggestion... Thanks,<P>kkeo