Hello to whomever might be reading this,

I have a previous post about my H wanting me to not care what he does, no matter what he's doing or how late he stays out. I've been browsing this website more and more, and happened across a few articles on alchoholism which, with the help of whomever wishes to answer this post, may help me make more sense of the situation.

One of the articles stated that if the spouse chooses alchohol over the feelings of the other spouse, he or she is an alchoholic. My question is, that may be the case, but could I be over reacting about how much my H. drinks? He doesn't get drunk all that often, but he does go out to bars and drink at LEAST once a week, even though he knows I don't want him to. In fact, when we first got together, he told me he didn't drink at all. But then, wammo!, (as I stated in a previous post) he says to me, "i'm going to drink whether you like it or not." He also says that drinking is "just a part of him", and I should not mind if he does it, or even if he gets drunk.

I keep telling him that I think we should find things we BOTH enjoy doing, and that it's not fair for him to expect to go out EVERY weekend to a bar even if I don't want to. Lately, I've just been staying home. Sitting around watching people drink is just not fun, and he gets mad if I tell him i'm going home because I'm bored. That's another thing, he stays at the bar even if I leave. That seems sort of rude to me. Yeah, every once in a while a couple doesn't have to leave together, but if you go somewhere together, I think you should usually leave together.

Is there anyone out there who can tell me if I'm just blowing this out of proportion? Does it look like my H is an alchoholic, or am I just asking too much? I don't want to be selfish, but I'm afraid that my disaproval of his drinking may be just that. Please help. Thanks for your responses!

You may want to post this in the ‘Emotional Needs’ forum as they get much more participation there. That said…

From what you have said it is not clear that your husband is alcoholic or even has a problem with alcohol. What is clear is that is he hell bent on being ‘independent’ in a way that is common to teens. You do not give your ages. This could help quite a bit in assessing the situation. I am not sure if the alcohol is what is driving his actions or the desire to be out with friends.

If you searched the Internet you could probably find some questionnaires that help to evaluate his alcohol use. Then perhaps post the results in the Emotional Needs forum for input. There are many there who are/have dealt with alcoholic spouses.

The thing is that some people put all sorts of things ahead of the needs of their spouse. At this point, even if he is an alcoholic, harping on it is not going to help your one bit. Any change will have to come from him, not you.

In his books, Dr. Harley says that a marriage cannot be saved until addictive and abusive behaviors are stopped. Why? Because they become more important to the addict and/or abuser than their relationship and their spouse. If you determine that he is an alcoholic you will need to decide if you want to remain married to one and seek help if so.

From what you have said, I get the impression that the problem is more that your husband just wants to do what he wants to do and has come to see you as a mother figure… telling him what to do. You are right that you should find things to do as a couple that you both enjoy. But as long as his behavior is an issue, he will more than likely keep doing it.. like I said he’s acting like a teen.

Your nagging him about his drinking is driving a wedge between the two of you. When you stay home and let him go out by himself you are letting him develop a separate life.. this will lead to the two of you growing further apart. These things and the bar scene often lead to affairs. Not good. If it were my husband doing this I’d never go along with him going out alone…. Not after having been the betrayed spouse. But at this point my husband understands that this type of behavior is unacceptable.

You and your husband are caught in a dance in which you harp at him and he reacts like a defiant child. To end this dance, one of you will need to change what you are doing. I wonder how he’d react if you suddenly became very interested in going out with him all the time, dressed to kill when you and he went out and just enjoyed the heck out of it. Who knows, he may loose interest if it does not annoy you.

Then over time perhaps you can start suggesting other activities.. like invite his friends and their wives/girls over for dinner, to watch a game, etc. Or invite the crowd to go to a concert together. This way you start to draw him away from the bar scene.

I’ve done things like that before with my H and the result is that by doing things his way for a while and slowing introducing things that he enjoys we have moved more to a life style where we doing things together that we enjoy.

Hope this helps….

Thanks for your reply <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You asked about our ages. I'm 26 and he's 27. No kids. Been together about 1.5 years.

You also suggested going out dressed to kill and being eager to do everything with him. I have actually done the part of trying to act eager to go out with him and have a good time. Didn't daunt or slow his actions. I've also tried being so sweet and loving upon his returning home that maybe he would want to come home early or stay home alltogether. Right now, we have a deal that, for this month only, he can do as he pleases: going out to the bar or to a party as often as he likes without me saying a word about it. I'm thinking that was a mistake. I've also tried being the concerned spouse "honey, do you think you might be drinking too much, it's not good for your weight" (he's not fat, but slightly over weight). That one blew up right in my face.

It's breaking my heart. He comes up with these plans all of a sudden and then it's too late for me to makes plans to go out with MY friends. So I'm stuck sitting at home all night, till the bar closes at 2am, all by myself. That's allright sometimes. I need time to myself like anyone, but weekend after weekend of it starts making me feel a bit on the neglected side. I have tried explaining it to him. When I do, it's almost like he's not even listening to me, but waiting for me to stop talking so he can tell me how wrong I am. UGH!

I'm also going to do as you suggest and post this in emotional needs.

Well, thanks for any and all replys.

Ro.

I assumed that you two were on the young side as most people give up this type of partying as they get older. Perhaps time will take care of some of this.

You asked about our ages. I'm 26 and he's 27. No kids. Been together about 1.5 years.

While going out with him and enjoying it did not daunt your husband’s actions, he was also not out alone. Partying on a continual basis without one’s spouse is simply not healthy for the marriage. So at least if you are with him it might help. Though I doubt you’d want to do this for a lifetime.

What would happen if you scheduled things with him in advance, perhaps things that include some of the people he parties with? This way it does not leave your social and recreational life to last minute plans.

I agree that giving him carte blanch for a month may not be wise, on the other hand it might work out well.

"honey, do you think you might be drinking too much, it's not good for your weight" – yep, I would expect that to blow up. You’re not his mom. If you want to be his wife then don’t act like his mom.

“I've also tried being so sweet and loving upon his returning home that maybe he would want to come home early or stay home altogether.” – This can actually back fire on you pretty badly as it teaches him that it’s ok to leave you home alone, show you disrespect and to do things that are harmful to your marriage.

There is a fine line for you to walk here, to not be his mom but to be his wife and thereby demand that either he show you respect and treat you with care, protection, radical honesty and spend time with you. Anything short of that is unacceptable. The problem is, as you have found, that the minute you start verbally demanding these things it will push him away. It’s a fine tight wire you have to walk right now.

I wish I were more skilled at giving advise on this so instead I’ll suggest some things… there are some good books that have worked wonders for me. The MB books “His Needs, Her Needs” and “Love Busters” are very good. I also feel that the Divorce Busting books will help you with your particular issues.. “Getting Through to the Man You Love” and “The Divorce Remedy” teach a completely different way to related to a spouse.. Especially a more affective way for women to relate to their husbands. Both sites offer very good phone counseling (actually relationship coaching).

In particular you may want to look at the DB concept of doing a 180. For example he makes plans out of the blue and you don’t have time to make your own. Well, make your own plans advance and go out whether or not he makes other plans. And the entire time be sweet and cheerful about it. It’s not about playing a game with him. If he is not interested in doing things with you, then just start living your own life. It will probably throw him for a loop because it’s obviously the last thing he expects you to do. Seems he thinks that he can do as he pleases and you will just be home, annoyed, by waiting for him. Don’t do that. You deserve better than what he is giving you.

I got this off http://www.divorcebusting.com. I hope this helps. DivorceBusting suggests doing a
180.
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!
2. No frequent phone calls
3. Do not point out good points in marriage
4. Do not follow him around the house
5. Do not encourage talk about the future
6. Do not ask for help from family members
7. Do not ask for reassurances
8. Do not buy gifts
9. Do not schedule dates together
10. Do not spy on spouse
11. Do not say "I Love You"
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his whereabouts, ASK NOTHING
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him someone he would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)
21. Never lose your cool
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic
23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes their feelings stronger)
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil)
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel
34. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes.

<small>[ June 05, 2003, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: Eleonora ]</small>

my H. is an alcoholic and an addict he has been in recovery now for 13 yrs. he goes to A.A. at least 3x a week. it was hell for me i think you would not question is he or not? you would definitly know. does his drinking interfere with his daily life? does he take care of his responsability's? does he ever miss work or any funtions because of a hang-over, or not comming home from the bar? does he become ugly when he drinks? you should go to al-anon because it seems as if you really think he maybe an alcoholic. al-anon will help you to hopefully figure it out and give you some support. it is a hard road. good luck to you, de

I think that he is perhaps working on the alcoholic career. What I mean is that it does seem to be a bit of a problem. You can have an alcoholic problem and not miss work and important occasions. When it's importance is placed before you and the bar scene and all of that I consider it a PROBLEM.

I feel so sorry for you and wish there was an answer. Only you and you alone will need to
try to sort out this issue. The support groups may be something that will help you, I do
not know, but in the end, it is your decision.

I have many times wondered do I want to live with an alcoholic or a recovering
alcoholic? A majority of the information I have recently gathered on recovering
Alcoholics it is just as bad as living with an Alcoholic.

I am so angry that it is claimed the Alcoholic/drinker has a “Disease ”. The disease is not just for the person who has the problem but it is a family disease. That is only 1/2 correct. It is no more than Bad Behavior on the drinkers part.

My Father and Sister died of a Disease, CANCER. They did not willingly sit at the bar
buying another round of cancer. They did not run to the liquor store and buy a 30 pack of
Cancer. They did not stay out all night or days at a time and hurt their family,
intentionally. CANCER is a DISEASE, not drinking.

Many years ago, numerous government officials had to figure a way to force the Medical
Insurance companies to pay for the rehabs/treatment. Somehow, it was re-labeled as
being a “Disease”.

If they insist on calling it a disease then fine, but put the definition in the proper order.
Alcohol/Drinking is not a disease for the drinker, it is a Disease for the family or others
involved in the relationship. Just as my Father and Sister could do nothing about their
Cancer that ate them alive, you and I can do nothing about the drinking that is eating us
alive.

See my H post that I copied here for you, then see mine.

Junior Member
Member # 28865

posted July 12, 2003 08:19 PM
I have been a faithful husband for 11 years. I even survived an affair my WW had
for 9 months in 96. I thought all was fine and that we were Okay, even with her
traveling out of town 2 nights a week for her job. It all changed last May when I
discovered she has been having an affair with her boss, 13 years her junior. She
still denies it, even after I caught her in numerous lies, and found the all telling
emails between them. I couldn't live with her lies when they kept me from sleeping,
eating and functioning. I filed and moved out. She is still in denial that this is
happening. She wants to hold on to the house and assests until "I give in and
return." I can't do it, I realize cheating has been her life pattern and at 40, I don't
want to waste anymore good love and commitment on the wrong one for me. I am
determined to go through with this, I just need some "emotional support" from you
all with the same situations. Thanks for this site!

--------------------
Me 40, WS 46
Married 1993
1st D-Day 2/96-10/96
2nd D-Day 5/03
OM 33, Her Boss
He Separated in March
We have no children together
I have 19yo Son from prior
whom I raised.
My Son left because of WW
I filed for divorce realizing
this is her life pattern
She will not be honest w/me
continues to lie and be in denial
Email:signmaker@classicnet.net

Junior Member
Member # 29236

posted July 28, 2003 08:20 PM
I am the wife of this person. Here is the other 1/ 2 that was not revealed. Whirlwind
romance. I was independent, single attractive woman who owned my own home and
a 16 year career under my belt. He and his 8 year old son moved in from his
Mothers trailer from a small town to a large city. Yes, I knew he had emotional and
financial problems and was a heavy drinker. That did not matter, I was willing to
take this step. He was a good hearted man. However, instead of trying to move
ahead in his normal routine of his past, this became so much easier for him. He had
a live in baby sitter, a financial income that did not require motivation and the ease
of bars within a few blocks of home. After about 20 times of wondering where he
was when I got home from work, and his son was there, saying numerous excuses
either Dad is across the Street ( yes drinking in the home with the wife, alone) Dad
will be back real soon, on and on. Well I finally had it. I found out one night where
he was, AT the Bar, I took his son down to the bar, and he saw me pull up. I
dropped his son off with him and told him to baby-sit your son yourself. This
drinking CONSTANTLY occurred. He continued to accuse me of stepping out, which
was not true. He made little or no attempt to try to get out of the drinking rut. I got
FED UP. I filed for Divorce and did step out to an “old flame”, just as this
BtrayedHsbnd did a couple of days ago (which I will tell you about later) and “That”
old flame did not turn out to be the “security and relief” I thought would be there.

From that time to now, it has been a constant battle with trying to prove to him I
am not having an affair. Now mind you, during this time he has kept on drinking,
having friends come to his place of business, getting so drunk either coming home
wee hours in the AM or not at all. ALL the while I was in the home with his son and
he knowingly this hurt both of us. He was out drinking with his buddies the night of
his sons prom. He promised his son the truck to go to the prom. Well no sight of
BtrayedHsbnd, until the next day. So his Son did not get to go to the prom.
BtrayedHsbnd decided to disappear for 3 days in a row in May, which happened to
include the day his sons Graduated from High School.

BtrayedHsbnd had a PI follow me and found nothing. He found a dinner receipt that
I paid for dinner with my boss and there from that moment on was “affair”. He
called my boss in the middle of the night 7 times within a couple of days, his
estranged wife of who they were trying to get things worked out. A hell of a time.

The Old Flame incident I mentioned earlier, he had been chatting with, telling all of
our problems to (along with MANY MANY other people) happened to be married. I
found this out by BtrayedHsbnd. He was talking to me alcohol induced. He told me
enough for me to be able to find out who she was. I searched the Internet and
found her and her husbands information. I called her husband the next morning and
filled him in on what was going on. Come to find out, her husband DID know that an
old high school friend has been emailing her, but that was about it. I gave him the
information I had and he took it from there. According to BtrayedHsbnd his old
flame told him the same day I called her husband, I called her husband and told
him and she felt so bad about hurting her husband. That affair ended that day
(supposedly).

Now, even with all of this , I still love him and want this to work and I am willing to
work on this, but as this site states “the drug or alcohol addiction, will prevent them
from resolving their marital conflicts because it controls them. It must be eliminated
before marital therapy has any hope of being successful.”

Not guilty of affair

Ro,
Your husband has a problem. It's a problem only he can solve. I have let a drinking problem interfere with my marriage, and I am now trying toput things back together. It's been 5 days sober so far, and it's so hard to put things together when you've already let them fall apart. I don't know how to suggest you get thru to him, because it's something HE has to realize. I realized it when my W stopped doing things for me, including sex. I went to bring up my issues with her and WHAMMO, got hit with the realization that our current state was my fault for developing a drinking problem. I'm not too far from you in age (32) and I can't offer much adivce on what to do or where to go from here. All I can say is recognize it as a problem. Try to find a way to "awaken" him that won't end things because obviously you love him. Until he comes around, you really will need to do whatever you can to keep your sanity. I wish you the best.

Hurt machine, this is good that you found this post, it is from April though and I do not think Ro came back to say how things are going. I would imagine unless lightening strikes that he is continuing his behavior.

Good to recognize it for yourself HM however. My spouse and I gave it up this past year. It is easiest in the beginning to not drink, but when the need comes back to say no to it is what you must do. Save the marriage and stay sober. We did not have a lot of issues from the drink per sae but it clouded all efforts for improving the issues within the marriage.

Alcohol slows and inhibits thinking and working things out properly. Even during the day without one drink, that drink from last night is still left an effect in your body. Anyone athletic will attest to that. You are not at your potential when you partake in the drinking of alcohol.

What is interesting is you ask a question and see how many people have had fights within the marriage while drinking alcohol. It makes you think, if you want to see the truth that is. Would this argument be so huge, if there was never any drinking of alcohol.

There is the anger, trust, quality family time, behaving at your best potential... all of these most vital things are on the line here.

When we stop drinking we feel better. We do not need it. We just want it. It is a habit to change/break. Refill the habit with healthy and wholesome activity delicious juices and have desert after dinner- rich chocolate things and replace the desire of the drink for the desire of sex, your spouses company and rational and complacent discussions. Use your Harley data along the way.

It helped us immensly. Best wishes.

Thanks Wflower. I appreciate what you say. I AM commited to not drinking. I'm on day 5 now, and I know for some people that may seem like not much, but you get your first AA chip at day 7, right? Then day 30, and every 30 days after. I'm taking it one step at a time, and I feel the difference and appreciate it. I'm wearing a pair of shorts that I haven't fit into in a year with just 5 days of no beer. I want to try and get in shape too, since the weight is dropping, so as much as dessert sounds good, that's not going to be my thing right now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I have a lot of trust to rebuild after 1-2 years of solid drinking. Our whole relationship (7yrs) has been me being plastered Fri, Sat and Sun, and I know iit'll take time to build her confidence that I'm serious and not going to fall off the wagon here. Whenever the need strikes me (and I still have booze in the house, to proove to myself I can resist temptation right in my face) I just think about her and how much she means to me, so I don't have a drink, because I don't want to lose her. I have already told a few close friends that I am now dry and they have accepted that if they come over I will NOT be drinking with them.

I'd love to replace the desire for drinking with sex, but right now my marriage has gone sexless. Now 2 things that have always been important to me need to be replaced by something else. And when your W wants to have the freedom to do as she pleases for the first time, that leaves me in a position where I have to replace all the things that have been important to me with something else, in order to focus my attention on something.

The only thing I have left is the fact that I am a musician, and playing bass or guitar is the only thing I have left that I can do, that doesn't require her. It's probably the only healthy thing I can do right now (aside from finding the strength to workout, which I haven't been able to do) that I can do.

Thanks for the advice, and the understanding. must keep trying...must keep trying...must keep trying.