Dear gem,<BR>as promised, here is a list of questions for you to give to your h. You can delete any ones that you don't like, or not use the list at all, if you don't want to. I tried to think of questions that would get to the "root" of what your h is thinking and feeling right now. I tried to make all of them as non-threatening as possible. It is an awfully long list, so maybe you will want to ask him the questions verbally, but he would probably be more honest if he could sit by himself and write his answers without worrying about your reaction.<P>Anyway, hope it helps.<BR>With love,<BR>-cd<BR>_____________________________<BR>1. Imagine that you have the power to make everything happen just the way you want it to, and that the other woman and I would both agree to whatever you wanted. Taking into consideration only YOUR feelings for just a minute, describe exactly, step-by-step, how you would want things to work out over the next five years.<BR>2. Describe what you think is the “best case scenario” for our lives if oc is involved.<BR>3. Describe what you think is the “worst case scenario” for our lives if oc is involved.<BR>4. Describe what you think would happen if we are not involved in oc’s life at all.<BR>5. What are your exact reasons for wanting to see the oc?<BR>6. What relationship do you see yourself having with the oc?<BR>7. How much contact with oc do you see as “appropriate”? Why?<BR>8. What place do you think oc should have in our lives?<BR>9. What do you feel your responsibilities to oc are?<BR>10. What do you feel your responsibilities to me are?<BR>11. What do you think you can reasonably contribute to the oc’s life?<BR>12. What do you think I could reasonably contribute to the oc’s life?<BR>13. How do you think that having oc in our lives would affect our children?<BR>14. How do you think that having oc in our lives would affect our marriage?<BR>15. Exactly how does it make you feel when you think about not participating in oc’s life at all?<BR>16. Exactly how does it make you feel when you think about us participating in oc’s life together?<BR>17. Do you think our involvement would have a positive or negative effect on the oc’s life? Why?<BR>18. If you could change any one thing about this situation (other than oc being conceived in the first place) what would it be?<BR>19. If you could change any one thing about me, what would it be?<BR>20. What one thing would you change about yourself?<BR>21. How exactly do YOU think I feel about having the oc in our lives? Why do you think that I feel that way?<BR>22. How do YOU think that I should feel about having oc in our lives?<BR>23. What, to you, would be the “perfect” next step for us to take together as husband and wife?<BR>24. What specifically can I do to make you feel more comfortable about expressing your emotions?<BR>25. What specifically do you think that you could do to make me feel more comfortable about expressing my emotions?<BR>26. Based on what you know right now, where do you see us 10 years from now?<BR>

Dear cd,<P>What a great list! I think you have captured the essence of what we all feel as the betrayed spouses (I hate the acronym "BS").<P>When we first find out, it really does shake your confidence and wonder what your spouse feels is his or her responsibility to you and your marriage. You don't understand what is going on in the spouse's mind and many times he or she is not able to express it either. Feelings are so difficult to get a grasp of sometimes.<P>I think we can all use your list as our checklist for getting in touch with what we ourselves feel and what our spouses feel. I had this "big talk" with my H last week -- actually for the first time in that we truly covered every nook and cranny and we dug deep to uncover the true feelings lurking under the surface. Some of his answers to the very questions on your list truly shocked me because they were not -- in any shape or fashion -- what I imagined they woudl be. I learned more in a few short hours of honest conversation without anger or bitterness, then I learned through the years of frustration and talking "at" each other not "to" each other.<P>I hope, Gem, that when you have your "big talk" the same metamorphosis will happen in your life and you will begin to better understand your H's view -- not condone! -- but understand.<P>Too bad we can't make up some sort of reference section for e-mails that we want to re-read and continue learning from. I have seen a number of things posted that I truly wish I could read again from time to time.<P>love<BR>- heavenly<p>[This message has been edited by heavenlybody26 (edited March 12, 2001).]

cd:<P>Excellent and concise list! I can't think of anything to add. In fact, this should be our "industry standard" for Newbies and Members in turmoil and struggling with their spouses on this very issue.<P>NSR on GQ has a thread called "Notable Posts and Threads" or something to that effect, where timely postings are saved and available for members to use as a sort of 'library' for future reference. Heavenly's wish can come true if we have a computer efficianado on board who would know how to do this.<P>Gem, I think cd's list gives you a great starting point to begin a dialogue of understanding, love and compassion with your husband. It may be a real "wake up call" for him, too. The questions cd posted are similar in scope to the questions posed at Retrouvaille, where one question is asked every hour to which you write your answers and present it to the other to read once with your head, then once with your heart. <P>I will pray you and your husband will have an uninterrupted 6 hours to delve into this crucial exercise to resolution.<P>Catnip =^^=<P><p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited March 12, 2001).]

OMG cd!!!! Great list!!!! H and I talked heart to heart today w/ positive results but I am going to refine everything with your list!<P>I want to say I've agreed to him having visits.<P>I will go along with it as long as 3rd party is involved.<P>He opened up like never before.<P>I heard his true feelings on everything.<P>Most of all I heard him say I am first. In all of this. If I can't deal with it...he will understand...he will never accept me leaving and will proceed w/caution.<P>Anyway, thanks cd! I'm gonna print the list and USE it!<P>What a great thing you have done for all of us here.<P>A list of what we feel!!!!! <P>Four months tomorrow and look at me....I'm changing right before my eyes!!!!!<P>Hey. I may change again but I do not know what the future holds. We are not guaranteed another day on earth. I will try to do the right thing each day and without bitterness. It may take a while......<P> Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Oh Debi,<P>My heart is soooo happy to see the smile in your words. I was so very worried about you. I know I didn't have much support to offer you as my situation and how I have chosen to deal with it were so very different from yours. <P>I hope you are comfortable in your heart about allowing your husband visitation. Take it from me... it is soooooo very hard. But each time gets a tiny bit easier.<P>One thing I try to remember. The nobel gesture and gift you are giving your husband will only make him fall deeper and deeper in love with you. I have to often remind myself of that. And yes some days are struggles, but you know what, we are struggling together. What more could I ask.<P>congratulations sweetie. Best Wishes.<P><BR>re: the reference thread. can anyone tell me why we don't have a forum modirator? if we had one we could have that person create a page with a link for new members. kindda like our faq (frequently asked questions) but it would be available at the top of this page. anyone know who's in charge of the marriage builders bulletin boards?????<P><P>------------------<BR>Zebra Baby ...<P>Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Z:<P>I'm not sure why we don't have a moderator. When I noticed all the Newbies on GQ with the same OC problem, I asked Steve Harley for our own site last May (I think) and he created it right away. Perhaps he monitored it for a while and figured we did OK on our own since we are a pretty small group in the big scheme of things.<P>Under Technical Feedback on the opening page, we can post this question to Steve Harley and see what he thinks. He was very open about giving us our own site; perhaps he could guide someone to create a "Notable Posts" thread like NSR has done on GQ.<P>Z, I am going out of town again a couple times this week and next weekend so I won't be around much for the next six weeks until we are packed, moved and settled in our new place. If you want to check into this, go ahead.<P>Catnip =^^=

Gem!<P>You sound wonderful! Almost like you have had a spiritual awakening of some kind. You have just received from cd a taste of what to expect at Retrouvaille.<P>You are in my prayers.<P>Love<P>Catnip =^^=

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Take it from me... it is soooooo very hard. But each time gets a tiny bit easier.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Zebra I know. H knows as I told him how I will feel the "first" time he leaves to visit.<P>H said he's happy I will at least TRY and is amazed at me.<P>He is hoping someday to bring child here. I told him as of now I never want child here. Not out of spite really I just am protecting my feelings now.<P>H will understand if it is too much for me I still will leave. He just wants to try to work out something where I will be comfortable. He doesn't plan on including child in our "regular" family activities. He said he's just a mess and doesn't know really what will happen when he finds out it's his. For now though, he wants to have regular visits. He thinks..... He really sounds unsure of more than that. Or rather, EVEN that. He just wanted to sound out all possible scenarios and get my feedback.<P>Guess what? He said since he moved back home, he has fallen in love with me more than he thought he could. That in these four months compared to the last 27 years he would die for me if I left! That is one of the reasons I will try to stay by his side and allow him to follow his heart and see the child.<P>Hey you all....prayers in mega-doses are still welcomed here.<P>Catnip thankyou. I don't know what came over me. Starting our talk first knowing our feelings for one another helped me to hear what his desires were.<P>Thanks again to cd for a great list.<P>Debi<BR><P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

I'll be putting it up on the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000554.html" TARGET=_blank>Notable Posts/Threads</A>.<P>OneGoing