Hello,<P>I wanted to thank everyone who responded to my posts last month when I found this site. I was trying Plan B, but it blew up in my face. I wanted to let you know I'm fine and moving on with my life. My H has decided to stay with the 21-year old OW and raise their baby, who is due next month. I will be moving from this state, just as soon as my house sells and going to Arizona. I look forward to meeting happy_girl when I get there!<P>Just a quick update to my life. My H was here last Sunday to go thru his stuff and talk about the divorce. While he was here, he wanted to talk to our oldest daughter (also 21 years old). After talking for a while, I joined them. My H became angry and jumped in my daughters face. I put my hand in between them to get my H to back off. He pushed me, so I hit him. We have <B>never</B> hit each other in the 22 years we have been together! My son and daughter told him to get out of our house and I told him I was calling the police. He settled down and wanted to talk to me. My H is going through some very dark times right now, but refuses to let the people who love him, help him. I now know that there is nothing I can do to help him. Only he can help himself. I want happiness back in my life and he is making the choice to stay unhappy, with someone he doesn't love, but has feelings for. His choice though. I can't let this stop me from finding healing and happiness in my life. I will never date or remarry, this I know for a fact. I will be happy with me though. I've had to learn to like myself, which I never did before. I'm proud of who I am today and what I've accomplished in the 9 months since he moved out. <P>I don't think I can be of assistance on this forum since I'm not with my H, even though there is an OC involved, so I want to say my good-byes to everyone here. I have tried to keep up with the posts since I last posted, but I've been busy getting my house ready to go on the market, so I've missed many. Thank you to everyone who posted to me and gave me great advice!!<P>Hugs<P>------------------<BR><B>"If you cry because the sun has gone out of your life, your tears will prevent you from seeing the stars." ~unknown~</B>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"If you cry because the sun has gone out of your life, your tears will prevent you from seeing the stars." ~unknown~<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Butterfly,<BR>I am sorry for what has happened. How do your son and daughter feel? Are they doing ok?<P>I ask because my 21 yr old son got very depressed over oc to the point of being in the hospital in Jan. 2001.<BR>He's doing much better but hasn't returned to work or school. Says he will work April 1....<P>He would be worse if H and I divorced. He told me that "you and dad belong together" so many times. He heals a bit more when he sees us hug or kiss etc.<P>Just wondered if your kids(?) are more stable in this.<P>Please don't leave us forever. Life is a continuing story and I'd like updates on yours. ok?<P>Best wishes to a strong sounding woman. You will have joy in your life again. You deserve it.<P>Debi<BR><P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Butterfly K, best of all wishes and prayers go out to you. <P>On another note... I met yesterday with a new pastoral counselor and psychotherapist, who is a trained and leads workshops based on books by Harville Hendricks ("Getting the Love You Want"). It was another eye-opener for me. I am on a path to learn more about me, and why I have accepted the poor treatment from my husband. If you are on that type of path also (and it sounds like you may be) try looking into the book mentioned when you ever have time. I am learning that I am worthy of being loved, which is something I have never really bought into. <P>Take care and enjoy your new life in AZ. Carolyn

Butterfly,<BR>Good to hear from you again. Have you had any offers on the house yet? Sorry he cant see what he is doing to himself and his family. I think your going to be just fine. How exciting to be moving any idea when? Don't feel just because you are not staying in the marriage that you have nothing to offer we all can still learn from what is going on in your life. I remember you thought h was involved with drugs that will make him a totaly diffrent person. You would think that chooseing to throw his life away for a 21 yr old he would have to be in la la land. If he ever pulls his head out he will see that he really screwed up it sounds like he has a lot of work to do on himself before he is going to be anything that you deserve.Good luck on getting a good price on your house and the move. I believe good things are instore for you take care. with love flowerseed

Dear butterfly,<P>I am so sorry for how things have turned out but you do sound very positive and excited about your new life in Arizona.<P>You couldn't ask for a better guide to your new state than Happy_girl!<P>Please take care of yourself and start making yourself happy. The fog may still left and your H may come to his senses and see what he is losing but until that day, you owe it to yourself to lead the best possible life for your own peace of mind.<P>Praying for you and wishing you good luck,<BR>love<BR>- heavenly

Butterfly kisses,<P>I am sending you all the prayers and best wishes. Hopefully Happy girl will get you settled in your new area and state. Good luck, I hope all will be well with your family, and you will be able to heal and get a fresh start. Check in every now and then and let us know how things are going.<P>babstr.

It's weird. Last night I pulled up Happy Girl's photo album to show my husband who everyone is and we came across your photo with your husband and I said, "We haven't heard from her in a long time...I wonder how she is doing." And here you are.<P>BFK: Stay strong as you sound today. You really seem to know who you are and that you will be just fine on your own. I am always so sad to see a marriage end, but always overjoyed when the wronged party has such positive resolve and look forward rather than back during this extremely difficult time. It's like when you make up your mind and start thinking a certain way, there is nothing that can stop you.<P>Keep us updated, BFK, because we care what happens to you and it wouldn't hurt for us to hear of your successes and the good things that will be coming your way.<P>Happy trails...<P>Catnip =^^=

Butterfly Kisses:<P>I'm not sure why you say Plan B blew up in your face? I think your husband staying with his 21 year old OW and raising this child is a natural extension of Plan B. If you've only been in Plan B for a few months, I'd suggest that you give him at least a year of this new life---he might discover that it's not all cracked up to be what he wants it to be.<P>But only do this if you still love him. If you're really completely over him, and are ready to divorce---then file...<P>God bless!

Hi Debi~<BR>I have 5 kids and a granddaughter and they all live at home with me. Most of my kids don't even want to talk to their father anymore. He moved home two months after moving out last June and made promises to all of us that he would never hurt any of us again and told them how much he loves me and how sorry he was for everything. A month later, he moved back out. Those first two months he was gone, he had no contact with our kids. I have two kids (18 & 19 years old) who don't say much, just live their own lives and talk to their dad when he talks to them. They don't agree with their dad, but don't get involved. Two others (who told him to get out) want nothing to do with him. They say they hate him. Even I don't hate him, but I have a real dislike for him now. Our youngest, 13-years old stays pretty quiet about the whole thing. They are all hurt and angry, but show it in different ways. They are all very stable in their lives, some just don't want to see their dad anymore. I'm sorry your son has had to go through everything he has. How sad that the children, no matter what age they are, have to suffer.<P>Carolyn~<BR>I wonder all of the time why I accepted the treatment my H has given me, why I believed everything he has been telling me, how much he loves me, misses me, etc. I now feel like the fool who played right into his sick game. I will check out that book, just as soon as I get some free time to sit for longer than 5 minutes. Thanks for passing the title on.<P>flowerseed~<BR>The house goes on the market next Monday, the 19th. I sometimes worry that it won't sell because there are two other homes on our block for sale also. One has been since last Oct. and the other since last month. We live in a new home (4 years old) and the buildre is building new homes down the street. My home has stuff theirs doesn't and they have stuff I don't. My home is listed for cheaper than the others and I'm the only one on the block who has a tornado shelter. I handed everything over to the Lord and I have faith that my home will sell. I have taken the biggest (and first) leap of faith in my whole life. I'm starting all over in a new state all by myself (with my kids and granddaughter). I believe this is the right thing and the only thing for me to do. I too believe my H has a lot of work to do in his own life, before he can ever try and work on 'our' lives together. He still tells me he loves me, yet he's still with her. He says he's worried about how she'll raise their daughter. I guess with him staying here, he'll have no worries now. He is giving up five children and a granddaughter (4 years old) for a baby that's not even here yet. I'll never understand!!<P>Heavenly~<BR>Thank you for your prayers!! It's prayer that has gotten me this far. Prayer and my faith! I'm very excited about meeting happy_girl. She has said she will show me around and even told me about her favorite Mexican restaurant. I love Mexican food (just hold the cheese...yuck!) LOL I pray that the fog does lift and my H sees exactly what he has lost. Most of the time, I think about us getting back together and working on our marriage, to make it stronger and more loving, but I also think about how I can't trust him anymore. I have believed everything that he has told me and now I believe it has all been lies. I have no earthly idea why he would lie to me though. All I've ever asked for was the truth!! I'm a big girl and I can handle the truth. I know he loves me, but just not enough anymore!! I know he's still very sick that he got her pregnant, but there's nothing we can do to change that.<P>babstr~<BR>Thank you also for your prayers!! Prayer is a wonderful healer. I have had the great opportunity to be able to write back and forth with happy_girl and I can tell she's a very sweet, loving person. I'm looking forward to meeting her, just as soon as my house sells. I'm looking forward to the healing and a new start in life. I still can't imagine my life without my H with me, but he has made choices in his life, that don't include me or our children.<P>Last Sunday, I H asked our oldest daughter, if anything happened to my H or his dog (OW), would our daughter raise his daughter (her 1/2 sister). My daughter said NO. She's having a very hard time accepting the fact that 1) her dad was with someone younger than her 2) her dad is having a baby, younger than her daughter. My H was very upset that my daughter won't agree to take care of the baby. The OW is an only child and there are no cousins or other family members to raise her. My daughter has her feelings and takes a stand in what she will and will not do. She knows this baby is innocent, and it's not the baby's fault, but she just can't do it. I told my H, the weird thing is, I would and could love his daughter and raise her as if she were my own! He doesn't want to hear that. So, if anything happens to both parents, the child will end up in foster care I guess. How sad for that precious baby!!<P>I've written a novel and I'm sorry. Thank you for letting me know that I'm still welcome here. I just figured, since my H and I aren't together any longer, I should take my leave. I don't know what I can offer, but if I see an opportunity, I will chime in with my two cents worth. I have read where some were in a chat room with Zebrababy. That sounds like a great idea!! Sounds fun too. <P>Please keep the sale of my house in your prayers. Thank you!!<P>Hugs to all,<BR>Tammy<P>------------------<BR><B>"If you cry because the sun has gone out of your life, your tears will prevent you from seeing the stars." ~unknown~</B>

Hi Catnip~<BR>I'm doing the only thing I know I can do, and something my H can't take away from me, Leaving! A few weeks ago, I was with my son at the mall and who should I run into, my H and his very fat dog!! It's NOT baby fat either. She's just plain fat. I even told him so later. I did go up to them and talked to him for a few minutes, after watching them for about 5 minutes. H looked miserable, not holding her hand, not carrying the bags, etc. I see the two of them in my head and I KNOW I can no longer stay here. That was my breaking point. Even though he's not completely happy with her, I will not take the chance of running into the two of them again. She wouldn't even look at me. She kept looking down. I on the other hand looked straight at her. She will NEVER make me cast my eyes down. I have done nothing wrong to feel ashamed about! She has and so has my H. For this reason, I must move on. I know I'm doing the right thing for my life and for my children.<P>K~<BR>I will forever love my H and he knows this. I have told him time and time again how much I love him and want to work on our marriage. He has told me the same thing. Once Plan B started, everything changed. I will move on, and he'll know where I'm at if he ever wants to attempt to try again with me. He still is my best friend and most likely always will be. It's sad that my best friend has hurt me the way he has. Through everything, my love for him has grown. I find it hard to believe that the person I love has hurt me so badly, yet my love only grows for him. Strange feeling, that's for sure!<P>Hugs to you both,<BR>Tammy

Butterfly,<P>I am both happy and sad for you. Happy that you will be able to start anew in AZ, but sad that it had to come to this. AZ is a very beautiful state, with a lot of interesting stuff you can't find in any other state! I grew up in Tucson, and have been all over the state for camps and trips and stuff. Happy Girl is a great person to show you around, and I would love to meet her in person as well. I will keep the sale of your house in my prayers, and that you find great new friends in your new neighborhood and job. <P>Like others have said, just because you are making this move, doesn't mean you can't continue to come here if just to offer support to us when we are feeling down, or to receive support you may be needing. You are still a member of our sad little club, no matter what the outcome is.<P>Let us know when the house sells, and when you will be moving for sure.<P>Love,<P>Tigger

Isn't it absolutely incredible that NONE of these OW's opt for ADOPTION? <P>Adoption would provide a stable, loving, two parent home for the child, allowing the child opportunities and advantages that the OW and WS cannot provide, allow the husband and wife to heal their marriage, circumvent financial destruction, alleviate personal humilation and embarrassment and allow everyone to put this ugly, ugly chapter behind them.<P>If BFK's husband is so concerned what will happen to the OC if the OW and he are killed or die, why do they not give the child up for adoption and give the child a chance at a decent life? Why do they want to torture this child and themselves unnecessarily and cause so much pain and havoc in the lives of so many innocent people.<P>Shame on these selfish, evil, self-serving OW's and stupid spouses.<P>Livid,<P>Catnip =^^= <P>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited March 15, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited March 15, 2001).]

Dear Catnip,<P>Are you nuts? Why would an ow ever put up the oc for adoption? That child a certified, government-approved meal ticket that doesn't expire for at least eighteen years. to give it up would be like throwing away perfectly good free money. And how else can a woman guarantee that her child will be provided with the very best daycare and medical insurance? You wouldn't want them to have to work to provide these things on their own like the rest of us do, would you? <P>Besides that, if the child is gone, so is the best chance ow has at wreaking furthur havoc in the wife's life. I mean, really, shouldn't ow be able to punish the wife for meeting and marrying the man first? Just because the wife got there first is no reason her needs should come first. Not when our laws govern such that "last come, first served." PLUS, do you expect Satan to do ALL the work in destroying the sanctity of marriage and family all by himself? it's probably a hard job being a fallen archangel - so many of God's laws to break, so little time. he has to delegate responsibility somewhere. If not to ow, then who? There are only a limited number of axe murderers and rapists in the world, you know. Somebody has to take up the slack.<P>And geez, Catnip, if the child is given up for adoption, the ow wouldn't have the chance to revel in the glory of single parenting. Society today bends over backwards to give single women a pat on the back for their courage and determination to raise a child on their own. Good lord, who wouldn't want that kind of "applause"? If only I had had the foresight to conceive my four children with four different married men...then the system would be jumping through hoops to ensure that they are provided for. Instead of mac and cheese, my children could be dining on lobster and caviar. shame on me for thinking they'd be better off having a full-time father. <P>Furthermore, how can you even suggest that children should only be born and/or raised within the restrictive confines of marriage? If child support officials wouldn't have the "dead beat dads" to pick on, they'd be out of a job for sure. You wouldn't want these ow to be responsible for an upsurge in the unemployment figures, would you? And cs caseworkers are not the only ones who would find themselves out of work. What about people who work with troubled youth? if everyone came from a secure and loving two parent home, the positions available in the mental health field would be drastically reduced. Then where would we be? And what about our lawyers? do you want them to spend their days doing nothing but legitimate business transactions? how boring that would be. I can just imagine tens of thousands of jobless attourneys, psychologists, caseworkers, and the like standing pitifully in line at the welfare office. The United States DEPENDS on these women to raise dysfunctional children, for heaven sakes. Without them, our whole economic system might very well collapse.<P>Catnip, where is your sense of patriotism?<P>"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what having sex with a married man can do for your country!"<P>-cd

C.D.,<BR>Well said my thoughts to the T. I want you to know that I was laughing so hard at that last line my dog just jumped up and bit me.Hey what do ya think should we get T shirts made up and send one to each of the ows. with love flowerseed<p>[This message has been edited by flowerseed (edited March 15, 2001).]

Tigger~<BR>Do you live in AZ? If so, what area are you in? I have been looking at homes online to buy. If everything works out, I should be able to buy, instead of rent. Thank you for your prayers!! I believe in the power of prayer and I know Christ is working great things in my life.<P>Catnip~<BR>My H's OW would never put their daughter up for adoption, She got pregnant on purpose!!! She had a boyfriend who didn't want a baby, but she did. Her bf knew her mom and would have never believed she 'couldn't ger pregnant.' She met my H, dumper her bf and lied to my H, saying she medically couldn't get pregnant. It was very stupid of my H to have unprotected sex, but that's what was done. This girl knew what she wanted and got it...my H and the baby. Funny thing is, my H said he was 'searching for happiness' when he met this girl. He's not very happy anymore. Not my worry though. <P>cd~<BR>I love your letter, it's soooooo true!! I really like your quote too. What a sad world we live in, cheating spouses, lying OW, families hurt and torn apart. All for what...'happiness'. I sometimes have to laugh because I know my H's OW (little dog) saw a man with money and stability in his life. They now live in a dump of a house that molds, in a bad neighborhood. It's cheap and the only thing they can afford, because he has to pay me. The thought of this brings a smile to my face. Justice...yeah, I think so!! My H used the saying once, years ago 'cheaper to keep her.' Well, it's costing him so much more money not being with me. <P>Flowerseed~<BR>I would love to give the little dog a shirt with that saying on it. I'm sure she wouldn't get it though. <P>I still see images of the two of them at the mall and this keeps my mind on moving and not looking back. Holding on to everything my H was telling me, how much he loves me, misses me, wants to work on our marriage ... while he continues to be with her, was only dragging me down further. I'm finally clawing my way back up and moving on with my life. <P>I just found out this week that my BIL & SIL are also moving to the Phoenix area!! God answers prayer!!! We knew he was up for a transfer from his job, but it looked like they would be moved to Texas. It happened so fast, my BIL (my H's brother) is already there. I would rather be by my BIL & SIL than anyone in my family. My BIL & SIL have been so great to me and my children. They don't want to see us hurt anymore by my H.<P>------------------<BR><B>"If you cry because the sun has gone out of your life, your tears will prevent you from seeing the stars." ~unknown~</B>

cd:<P>Printing this up for posterity. This is the most scathing response to a thread addressing the underlying evil of our system. Excellent, excellent post, cd. I adore your sarcasm and your logic.<P>Catnip =^^=<P>

Catnip,<BR>I printed it up to and your reply. This is very helpful to read when I am in this mood. I think it should be sent to someone I just dont know who right at the moment. Thanks catnip & cd you came up with this just when I needed it most perfect timing. with love flowerseed<p>[This message has been edited by flowerseed (edited March 15, 2001).]

Butterfly,<P>Right now, we live in HI. My H is in the Navy, and we have been here almost 2 yrs now. We both grew up in AZ, me in Tucson, my H in Tucson, and Phoenix. We both have family that live in and around the Phx area, but I am a lot more familular with Tucson, as I had lived there from age 3 to 19, and then again from 95 to 99 while my H was recruiting there. I do know that the suburbs tend to be a little better as far as housing costs and schools. My H attended school in Mesa, which is on the eastern side of Phx. We currently own a house in Tucson, which we are renting out for the time being. We will probably sell it in a couple years, but not while we have these good tenants in it. Sorry I couldn't give you more info, cause I know you are looking in the Phx area. I sure Happy Girl could help you out in that aspect more than I could.<P>Tigger

butterfly kisses,<P>i am keeping you in my prayers. will see you soon!!! looking forward to going out to eat mexican food!!<P>happy_girl

Tigger~<BR>My H has an aunt & uncle in Tucson. That's where we were going to move when my H retired from the Air Force. Since it's only me, I'm going to Mesa. I have a better opportunity with my job in that area. I'm really looking forward to moving and getting on with my healing. My kids are looking forward to going too!<P>happy_girl~<BR>I'm looking forward to the Mexican food!! I can taste it now .... Ummmm My house goes on the market on Monday, so as soon as it sells, I'm out of here. I found out last Monday that my BIL & SIL will be moving there too!! His job transferred him. He got the call on Monday and had to leave on Wednesday. Talk about fast!!! They knew they would be moving, just didn't know where. They will look for a house, then my SIL will move there with their kids. My kids are happy about that, they will be able to see their cousins. God is so good and I know He will see me through.<P>Hugs<BR>Tam<P>------------------<BR><B>"If you cry because the sun has gone out of your life, your tears will prevent you from seeing the stars." ~unknown~</B>