We had our third evaluation session yesterday in therapy and then the therapist referred us out to another therapist.Very tough session. Husband finally got angry, realizing he was so angry at self for all he has done. By last night at home, he was almost incapacitated with emotional pain, realizing he may not regain my love, trust, our life together due to A and OC. I told him I do not trust him yet (only 5 weeks since D) and certainly hated what he has done to me and our two young kids, He wants to give up, was actually thinking of suicide after buying a big enough life insurance policy for us. I told him to forget it, you don't get life insurance if person suicides. I believe him when he says he wants nothing to do with OW. The OW actually emailed me telling me she was sorry and hoped my husband and I work it out. My H tells me she never wanted to hurt his family-what a crock of . I cannot believe he may through this all away. It feels that way this morning. I have circles under my eyes from crying so much last night, worry kids heard our discussion. Any useful reaction would be appreciated. <P>[This message has been edited by lsb (edited June 19, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by lsb (edited June 27, 2001).]

Dear lsb,<BR>Although we are currently suing for custody/visitation of oc, our children (8,3,1, and 5 months) know nothing about her whatsoever. that is the toughest part for me, figuring out what to say and how to say it, so really I am stalling for time on that, using the excuse that we need to wait until after our mediation hearing so we know more of what to say to them. i don't have any advice for you on that because I don't even know what to tell my own kids. There are some others here who have done it though. I'm sure they will come along with some good advice for you. In the meantime, if you think of a good way to do it, please let me know. I am also always afraid that our oldest boy might accidentally hear us when we are talking about it, although we do try to be very careful about what we say and when we say it.<P>I still think, though, that it is wrong for a h to insist on participating in oc's life when the wife is not 100% agreeable to it. your h needs to figure out that his primary obligations are to YOU and YOUR CHILDREN, not to oc at all. I am really lucky in that my h realizes this and would not think about even seeing oc if I wasn't open to it. I think that you are right, he is contemplating this for selfish reasons. I think you should remind him that being married means he has to put your needs before his. I know that some people might argue that you're not putting his needs before your own, but they have to understand that youre not just thinking about yourself, you are also trying to protect your children, which is your responsibility as a mother.<P>Anyway, those are my thoughts. BTW, my h also has a really hard time with guilt and self-hate over what he did to us. it is a hard thing for him to work through.<BR>-cd

Hi<P>The only thing I want to add is that at first my H said he wanted a relationship with the OC. I fought him on it and then he said he didn't. To make a long story short, he started seeing the OC secretly. We see the OC every other weekend now, but I just couldn't in the beginning.<BR>Oh and yes, our children know. With all the arguing that took place in our home, they knew something anyway. We told them. I didn't want them to possibly hear such news <BR>from anyone else.<P> CD

Dear lsb,<P>I am so sorry to hear that your therapy has been so rough. When I was in therapy, I found that it helped a great deal later, but at first, it really brought to the surface all of the raw feelings that were inside my H and I. It was difficult to cope with at first until we started to get a handle on those feelings.<P>Right now, my H and have decided "no contact". However, like your H, my H was seeing the OC without my knowledge and I believe that he also bonded with her. <P>Like yours and cd's my H is very regretful about what happened. He also feels that he has ruined a marriage which he described as "very special" and that things will never be the same again. <P>He believed that I would come around and allow visitation. But it took a long time for him to understand that he had to make a choice. That was after many painful conversations in which I explained to him how ashamed it would make me for people at work and members of my family to know that he had fathered a child outside of his marriage. We have not told our children and, unless we are forced to, we don't intend to. I believe that it will create insecurity in them. Although I must admit that I worry that someone less well-meaning will tell them just to hurt them and that it may eventually ruin the relationship they have with their father.<P>When my H tells me how innocent the OW is -- I would like to wring his neck. She knew he was married and either she did not care if his family got hurt, or she did not consider us at all. Either one to me amounts to the same thing -- a wanton disregard for an established family.<P>At first I wondered if my refusal to cooperate with the OC would drive a wedge between us. I agree with you that this need is more about the H's need to come clean and exonerate himself. But we have talked about it so clearly and so honestly that my H fully understands that I am not refusing out of malice, but because I cannot emotionally handle visitation. To see the child and to incorporate her into my life would actually destroy me. My H has now come to the realization that if our marriage is to survive, the OC cannot be a part of it.<P>I am sure that he is sad about that decision, but it is exactly the same way he would feel if he gave up a child for adoption. While it may be painful to break off contact with your child, you do it because it is the best option due to certain circumstances. No contact is the same for us.<P>It is normal that your H would feel sad that the OC cannot be a part of his life. But, just like you have to focus on starting from this point and re-building your life, so does he. <P>I agree completely with cd that unless both H and W fully agree to the visitation, it simply will not work and will end up eroding the marriage anyway. However, let me just add that you have found out very recently. You are still on that horrible rollercoaster that starts up right after discovery. This may not be the time for you to make a stand and believe it is set in stone.<P>As your heart heals and you begin recovery, there may yet be many emotional changes in store for you. I am praying for your recovery and that you and your H will be able to come to solutions that will be comfortable for both of you.<P>For now, take good care of yourself, allow yourself to feel whatever you feel and know that the truly hard feelings do pass with time and you will soon tap that amazing inner strength that keeps us all going and propsering through this ordeal. Blessings to you.<P>love<BR>- heavenly

Dear CD, CD et al, Heavenlybody, I can't thank you enough for your words.How old are the kids you told about the OC and what in heck did you tell them? I agree with much of what you have said. I think my husband is tormented by that I may not forgive him. He keeps wanting me to guarantee I will forgive him and trust him, and I told him I am wanting to but it is too soon to feel I can. If I didn't think we would have a chance, I would not be perusing therapy. Of Course, I work in the mental health field, believe in it, he is engineer type and very skeptical of it all. Wants a guarantee-doesn't recognize how long it could take for us to heal for us if at all. That is what I have told him. I keep telling him it took him 2 years to tell me, including the time she was pregnant, and there was part of him hoping it all would go away, so how can he expect something more of me. I do not know what to do.I know this is all much too much to decide now. The child means nothing to me and I have told him that. I agree unless we come to some clear agreement,he should have no contact, . We are both in alot of emotional pain now- I have never seen my husband so upset in all the years I have known him.Do you think this is good? maybe he is beginning to see what he may lose if he persues all this. I hope so.<P>[This message has been edited by lsb (edited June 19, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by lsb (edited June 27, 2001).]

lsb,<BR>I feel as you do about oc and have the same fears about our child finding out. I have no idea how to handle this either. We have no contact and nobody knows about oc so I have time until he grows up and comes looking. I cant stand to even think about what it will do to our little girl. Things will get better just keep talking with h and come here when you need to. My h was also depressed more so before I knew anything then after he told me.Once all the secrets were out he did much better. He is now a totally diffrent person from the one I knew almost 2yrs ago.I thought I would never be able to feel any pride for my h again, I'm relieved to say it is coming back slowly. It just takes a long time to work threw all of the ups and downs you can do it and will be stronger then you ever thought you could.Hope things get better soon your family will be in my prayers. with love flowerseed

Isb<P>When my H told me about the A and the pregnancy, our children were 10 and 14. I was such a basket case then so I'm trying to remember when we told our boys. My older son kept asking me questions because he knew something was wrong. I told him first, I think about 4 months after I found out. My H told our younger one about 2 months after that. After he told him, he took him to Toys R Us.<BR> Both of our boys were concerned about the family staying together.<P> CD<BR>

Hi lsb,<P>My story is different from yours, but I'm going to share it with you. I would like to start off by saying, I don't have any advice for you, and for that, I'm sorry.<P>My H moved out last June, but A started before he moved out. I knew nothing. H moved back home for a month in August. We both told our children about the OC who is due this April. Our kids were at the time 12, 16, 17, 18 & 20 and we have a granddaughter. H and I told our children that we were going to do everything we could for the OC and the OC would be spending time with us. H moved out a month after coming home because OW threatened him, if he didn't leave me, she would turn him in to the military. He has since retired and there is no threat of her doing anything to him. OW and my H are now living together and the OC is due next month. My H knows I love him, forgive him and even trusted him and has made the choice to be with OW (who is younger than our oldest daughter). I'm ready to move on and I've put my house on the market to sell. I will be leaving the state with my kids just as soon as the house sells and starting over. I read what everyone has to say and I think to myself, how lucky all of you are to have your H's with you. I did everything I thought was the 'right' thing to do, accepted the OC, forgave him for everything and told him I would love his daughter as my own, which I knew I would and could do. It's not the babies fault, not by any means. I believe my H's daughter deserves to know her father and I was willing to be a part of her life.<P>Everyone is different and our lives are so different. I would never say someone was wrong for not wanting the OC to be a part of their lives. Everyone has to do what is best for them. Here I was, accepting of everything and willing to work everything out with my H, and I walk away the loser. Not that there were any winners in this, but that my H is with someone he says he doesn't love, but has feelings for. He tells me he loves me, yet he's with her. Go figure!<P>I hope and pray everything works out for you and your H and you have the happily ever after life that we all want and deserve. Please know, whatever decisions you and your H make, it's the 'right' decision. <P>Hugs<P>------------------<BR><B>"If you cry because the sun has gone out of your life, your tears will prevent you from seeing the stars." ~unknown~</B>

Dear lsb,<P>My H believed for a very long time that I would "come around" and allow the child to be part of our lives. Through continually talking and sharing my honest feelings about the situation, he slowly started to understand that I was not going to change. However, it was not until he realized that our marriage would be over if he tried to bring the OC into our lives, that he made the final decision to drop visitation.<P>There are many times when I feel truly guilty about his not seeing the OC because she is, of course, not responsible for the foolish behaviour of her parents. But it is really self-preservation. I could not survive it. Our marriage could not survive it. <P>So, the fact that your H is getting this realization into his head may be a very good sign. We've made life so easy for them, given them everything they want. In most cases this is the first time that we have said NO to our husbands and I think on one level they simply don't believe that we are going to stick to it.<P>love<BR>- heavenly

Isb, I wish I had some concrete answers for you, but it is all quite hard regardless of everyones situation. I can say that time changes many things. Our feelings and our beliefs sometimes change over time. Mine have. I have know about oc for almost three years. My children do not know, and only a few family members, and close friends know. All those that do know are those that I have chosen to tell. My h, from day one of me knowing has taken on the belief that it is whatever I want. He has been willing to do this for the recovery and well being of our marriage and our family. Of course this did not happen over night that is why I stress the issue of time and how things will look and feel different to your over time. I know right now this is not much help to you, but I hope you will see that there is hope, for the future. My story is very complicated and I wish I could share it all right now but time is short tonight, I just want you to know that I feel you are started on the right track. The one thing that I can say helped me get thru these last couple of years is my love for my H and children and his love for us. Also having an open mind helped me. Best wishes, and Peace, GAbi1116<p>[This message has been edited by gabi1116 (edited March 19, 2001).]