Gem,<BR>How many days has it been since you have seen h? I am hoping this will be a slap in the face to him to see what life is like without you. How are you doing? I sure wish catnip was here with some of her wisdom. with love flowerseed

Dear Gem,<P>I was very glad to see that you posted yesterday. You need this forum right now, more than ever. Even though it looks like things are pretty bleak, don't despair yet. Separation is sometimes what a marriage needs for the parties to get it back into focus.<P>YOu have heard many Plan B success stories right here on this forum. We will all help you to make yours one of them. <P>In one of your posts, you said that you were running and hiding from the OW. Gem, if she is ignorant enough not to understand that SHE'S the disgrace, then that is her problem! She's the one who chased down a married man and is walking around displaying the belly to prove it. <P>You are a loving, decent, intelligent, and caring woman. Regardless of what happens in your marriage, no one, particularly a slut like your OW, can take that away from you. Hold your head high. You are the wronged party here, you did absolutely nothing to anyone. Your only crime was trusting and believing in the vows that you took before God and family.<P>It may not look like it sometimes, but you are the better woman -- always were and always will be.<P>love<BR>- heavenly

Heavenly,<BR>Thank you for bringing that up yes gem ow is the one that should be ashamed not you. Me and my h were apart for about 1 week just before I had our little girl and that was not easy but I made it gem and you will to. Plan b and I didnt know thats what I was doing, hey it worked. My h was pulling some crap (seems like a hundred yrs ago)that I was not going to put up with. I think it blew him away that I would kick him out 1 week before our child was due but I did.I went on with my life doing what I had to do even thou I thought I would die and when he seen this he wanted to come back and he was a much diffrent man when he did.It was just a few days before she was born "whew". We have not ever been apart since so hopefully he will see what he is throwing away and do the same. The way I looked at it was he would either change his way of thinking and if he didnt then I did not need the pain in my life that he was causeing.This was yrs before the ow came along but I thought I would tell ya about it anyway. with love flowerseed

Flowerseed and Heavenly,<BR>I just got back from "birthday" lunch w/my sister and her H and niece. We hung out at barnes and noble too. They are including me in dinner later if I feel like it. I thank God for my sister. W/o her I would be lost right now.<P>No, I haven't talked to H. Last thing I said was I couldn't believe he didn't hate ow for her decisions. Also that I would never approve of him going there to pick up C. He didn't respond to either thing.<BR>He left a message saying "this is your husband, give me a call sometime" this morning on my machine. I didn't call back. I'm pretty sure I want a divorce. I'm terrified of the poverty....the loneliness....but I can not put up w/ow/C the rest of my life. That to me is harder.<P>I know you think I shouldn't hide but I do. I shake in anger and fear when I see her. I think how H doesn't hate her. I feel he must feel something for her and I don't understand how he said all the loving things he's said to me. I feel she knows he'll be around sooner or later and she (smugly) must smile about that. I no longer feel exclusive. I no longer feel like he's my best friend. I'm slowly beginning to despise him for not hating her. I fear when he sees baby he'll end up with her no matter what he says. I don't know why, I just do. Gut terrible feeling.<P>I'll be ok. I'm up and down. I love/hate H now. I'll post when anything new comes up, ok?<P>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Dear Gem:<P>There comes a time when we must carefully interpret what our 'gut' is trying to tell us. <P>I noticed last week that you were not around and your presence was scarce, but I've been away, too and wasn't sure what the story is. I lurk and find the latest news on your situation and find I am stunned that your husband is not agreeable to your boundaries of third party pick up where OC is concerned. He was going to get what he wanted...what more did he expect? I mean, after all, I thought the big heartburn was about him seeing the OC at all. You have acquiesce in your husband's desires and suddenly that's not good enough and he wants to take it another step further and pick up and drop off OC directly? He wants even more consideration? Is that what this is about?<P>Since I am not fully up to speed, let me know if I am off on my interpretation. <P>How is your son handling Dad not being in the house? Are you planning to return your husband's call? Is this the first time he has called since he left last week? What was the week like for you?<P>I am so glad you have your sister to lean on. But, before you make any final decision, listen to heart and pay close attention to your gut instincts, however, assess the feelings carefully because sometimes when we are hurt and angry, we misread our instincts. I want to tell you to trust yourself and to do what you must for you but remember, this is all still very new to you and you are still reeling from the initial shock.<P>I am having a tough time understanding how your husband could balk at your extremely reasonable request in light of your benevolence. <P>Here on this forum, not so very long ago, you were adamantly opposed to any contact with the OC under any circumstances. Now you offer your husband an enormous gift by putting yourself aside for him and this is what you get in return? Are you sure this pick up and drop off issue is what this is all about? What were the circumstances to his leaving the house all week? Do you know where he was and where he stayed? How did you feel while he was gone and was there no communication?<P>Gem, I know you are at the end of your rope and you have very mixed feelings about your husband and are extremely hurt and wounded from the hits you've endured. I am not going to try to talk you out of anything or into anything. You have suffered enough with all this. I do, however, think that this is moving too fast and there are so many unresolved issues and emotions flying around in your life...I just want to caution you against any impulsiveness.<P>I guess I just don't understand how any man who is going through this and has had the opportunity to mend the marriage and get his life back, his wife's life back, his family's life back would jeopardize it all and sacrifice so many for one person who should never have been born to begin with...or kept. And should never have been conceived. While I am sorry for and feel compassion toward all our OC's, because they are innocent like we are and our children and families are, I believe the OW's should either give them up for adoption or raise them alone without any expectations. The wayward spouses' first responsibility and obligation is to the betrayed spouse, Gem. And if the WS is lucky enough to be able to stay in the marriage and with the betrayed spouse, then the WS should allow the BS make any and all decisions with regards to OC visitation, pick up, drop off, scheduling and determine who should know what and how much.<P>I commend you for your generosity to allow your husband visitation and wish so much your husband would see what a supreme sacrifice this is for you and respect and honor your boundaries surrounding this issue. Let me know if what I am assuming is correct or off base. I only stopped in long enough to check in before we pull the plug Monday to transport our belongings to our new home. I'll probably be off line all next week but will be lurking tomorrow.<P>Still in a mess here...so much left to do. We're not only moving a household but remnants of our dormant business. Boxes and boxes of files and office stuff.<P>Pray for guidance, Gem, and trust your gut...stay strong.<P>You're in my thoughts and prayers.<P>Love<P>Catnip =^^= <P>

Flowerseed:<P>You're so sweet to ask for my wisdom and I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I am pretty flummoxed by what I perceive as the scoop here. I don't think I truly understand the whole scenario and am choosing my words carefully.<P>I haven't had a chance to read all the posts and it looks like a lot is going on...including some newbies and crashers. But I did see where the OW situation didn't cause you and your husband any problems with the purchase of your land. I was so happy to see that everything went through very well for you...another victory to add to the growing list of blessings. What will you use the land for?<P>Thanks, Flowerseed. For all you do and for all your caring...<P>Catnip =^^=

Dear gem,<BR>I am too angry right at the moment to post anything that would be helpful to you, but I wanted to let you know I've been thinking about you. I missed you during your absence, but I'm sorry you came back with such rotten news. I'll be praying for you, and will write more when I am in better spirits.<BR>With love,<BR>cdcollins

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Here on this forum, not so very long ago, you were adamantly opposed to any contact with the OC under any circumstances. Now you offer your husband an enormous gift by putting yourself aside for him and this is what you get in return? Are you sure this pick up and drop off issue is what this is all about? What were the circumstances to his leaving the house all week? Do you know where he was and where he stayed? How did you feel while he was gone and was there no communication?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Catnip H said 3rd party would never work. Too hard I guess. He said I should be able to "trust" him to go there to pick up C as he has "no emotional ties to ow nor any intentions of being with her no matter what happens with us." "The baby did not ask to be born and needs a father to some degree" "She (OW) is in the past...over and done!""This will not change your life, I am worth staying with" "I can't change the past" <P><BR>The line that made me tell him to get out was after I said she gets all the pity here, you never said a bad thing directly about her. You never said you hate her. H said "I don't hate her. WE did this to you" I said how can you say that? She decided to carry baby w/o your approval, her H's, her family's or anyones'. SHE carried the baby w/o your help and you don't hate her? H said I don't hate anyone.....That is not true! I have heard him say how he hates that guy who didn't pay him the last 1/3 $ for that job he did 2 yrs. ago. You remember? The reason I thought H was acting so strange last summer during H trying to sue to get payment?<P>Well, I told him to get out! He said no. I threatened to call 911 and say he was beating me! He grabbed some things and left. Came back Monday and took everything again.(like in nov.)<BR>He's staying w/a single young guy we both know for now. (young guy called to tell me H was there and how he hopes we work things out) He has his own house a few miles from here.<P>My son thinks all will be ok. He said something like "MOM I know how you feel but ow didn't do anything wrong...she just chose to have this kid and mess up everybody's life, mine yours and dads. I never want to know that 1/2 brother or sister. How do you think that feels?" See he was being sarcastic.<P>As far as communication...H left a note telling me the same stuff he said on Sunday. He came to try to talk on morning at 7 am....I refused. He left another note to call. I refused. He left that message to "call your H" yesterday and I refused.<P>I feel lost w/o him and relieved at the same time. I went out Fri. night w/my sister and a few girls from our neighborhood for my sisters 40th birthday. It's my first time out alone and "single" so to speak. I had two different guys strike up conversations with me and buy all of us tequilla rose shots(yummy). Also a kid who couldn't be past 21 who told my friend I was the most beautiful woman he had ever seen!!! HA! HA! HA! Did a lot for my ego! He wanted to talk....Matt was his name....awww how sweet....I told him I was old enough to be his mother! He just sat and stared at me....When we left around 1 am, I gave him a smile and said thanks for the flattery but you need a nice young girl to talk to, not me. <P>I also ran into some of H's friends who gave me an earful of what they told H when they found out. WOW! They actually stood up for me! The one guy said how no one could believe what happened as H kept it such a secret..non of his friends even knew. If they did how they would have kicked his as*! How it was a few times in around a year! Now that matches what H said too. Blow jobs and cramped sex in a car. Always after spending time in a bar first. But no one knew! Amazing!<P>Catnip I am leaning toward divorce. I think he will push more and more on me. I think if it's a boy and it plays sports he will want to be there.(our son more into computers and hasn't played sports since little league).<P>Friends still say to wait to see if it's his. H is adament it's his. Timing is about right too since it was over in late july, early aug. It's like this whole time he's been worried about the kid and not us. He thinks I'll be just fine since he admitted his mistake, professed his love, said it could never happen again and how he'll be the best H. He's expecting too much.<P>He leaves in 10 days for North Carolina golf trip.(planned last year and every year he goes) He'll be gone Tues-Sun. I feel he should stay out of here till he knows what and who he wants. I only agreed to short visits...I mean not every week...but I think (know) he wants every week so kid won't think he abandoned it. Can't accept it. Too bad....It will affect my life. A few times a year is all I can fathom now.<P>Nuff said....way too long.....sorry...<P>Debi<P><P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

gem,<BR>What a jerk! I think you are doing what I would do. I to think the more you give it looks like the more he is going to take. I will be back got to get little one ready for sunday school. with love flowerseed

Catnip,<BR>Gee just in time! I wish for you and there you are. We got the land to go camping on and for h to go hunting. We used to go camping every weekend before all this started. In about 10 to 15 yrs we want to build a log cabin its fun to have something to dream about. Thanks for being here just when we needed you. with love flowerseed

Gem,<BR>I'm back sounds like he thinks he needs to remind you that he is your h to bad for him. I would have to reply to that one with when you start acting like my h then..... thats me how I would think if mine left a message like that. I would feel like a yo yo with what he is pulling what in the h*** does he think he has done in this short of time that you would think it o.k. and trust him to pick up oc at ow I dont know what he is thinking he is not. Gem I can understand the hate and love I would feel the same I'm afraid thou when I was were you guys are at in this the hate would be over powering the love about now.I dont think he really knows what he wants he may have to learn the hard way. He needs some tough love just what your giving him. It still makes no sense that he pushes this when he dosent even know if its his. weee wee gem 21 yr old isnt it funny I used to get that when I was out and about before I meant hubby you handled it well. You are a beautiful woman and just keep telling yourself that and you will be fine with or without h nobody can steal that from you. Go have fun with your sister good for you that she is there for you. I had a brother that helped me so much when I was going threw my divorce with my ex. Never would have made it without him I dont have any sisters but brothers work just fine. with love flowerseed

Oh Flowerseed I don't have any brothers! How funny...<P>I spent the day at my Mom's eating Kentucky Fried Chicken and cake to celebrate sis's b/day w/family.<P>I didn't hear from H. I think my son has become an informer telling H where I go.....<P>I left him a letter at his office today and he should get it tomorrow. I asked him one reason not to get a divorce and reiterated all the things I've said and he's said. I asked him to correct me if I misunderstood his intentions.<P>I miss him but now am prepared for the worst....<P>Will let you know.<P>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Gem, I have been wound up in some other issues on the forum , but have resolved to try and let them go and to catch up on what else is going on. I received your post in another topic and wanted to thank you again for your caring response. I also wanted to agree with something catnip mentioned, she thought that your h should be grateful for all you have done in view of all he has done. Any arrangement such as third party would have been a gift, yet he does not see that. When I learned about the OC three years ago, not only did I not want any part of him or his mom, but my h felt the same way and had not seen the oc for close to two years and he was not even three yet. Well I also insisted that he go no where without me except work, believe it or not and he did it. He did not want to lose me and our son and vowed to do whatever it took to keep us. I was so scared right after discovering about the oc, I was afraid to leave the house by myself and I did not want my H out of my sight. My h has always maintained the what ever I want position and values keeping his family together. Believe me he is no whimp he just got his s##t together for the fear of losing us, in fact his love shows in his courage to admit his mistakes and vow to do whatever it takes to fix them. I hope this separation will help your h see all he has at stake to loss. You are in my thoughts and prayers. Peace, Gabi1116

Gabi how did you guys come to include the C now? If you've said it before I don't remember seeing it. Did your H miss C? Just curious to know.<P>It's like my H wants complete control of the situation and wants me to just "believe" him.<P>I miss him.<BR>I am angry with him for his arrogance about this.<BR>My one foot is in the running away position while the other is stuck in hope so deep I can't make a move, ya know?<P>Still sometimes I think this whole visitation thing will escalate in the future without my approval and he'll leave anyway if he thinks it's too hard not to see C more.<BR>As of now besides 3rd party I only agreed to a few times a year. Oh well. I know my limitations for now. He can't agree.<P>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Gem,(My one foot is in the running away position while the other is stuck in hope so deep I can't make a move) What a great way to describe your what your feeling. I still have days I feel like that. Wonder if we can find a pair of shoes to correct this problem! Is h usually one that always has to be in control? I kinda thought all along this is a control thing with him. I dont know though just something that has crossed my mind. with love flowerseed <BR><p>[This message has been edited by flowerseed (edited March 26, 2001).]

Dear Gemini,<P>Just wanted to thank you for your reply to my other<BR>post. I hope you are feeling better today. Im so sorry<BR>your husband can not see how much you are trying to<BR>deal with an impossible situation. Everyone has such<BR>wonderful insight and advice - I just want you to know<BR>you are in my thoughts and prayers daily. I wish there<BR>were more I could say. My marriage started with this<BR>horrible weight - makes you wonder why the hell things<BR>happen the way they do. Congratulations on the innocent<BR>ego-boost, we could all use that once in a while!<BR>Take care and hope to talk more.

Flowerseed I just checked Payless and they do not sell the damn shoes I was looking for! As for control, yes H is to a degree.<P>Fluke, the ego-boost only lsated for a day....sigh.....<P>I'll keep ya posted.<P>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Gem,<BR>Well as far as the controll freak goes we need boots for that situation and a then ya have to give them a swift kick right in the a**. Oh good luck this kind of person is hard to get to but it can be done. I should know I'm one myself gotta be one to know one. he he he with love flowerseed

H just dropped off my letter unread.<P>Sent me a note about not living his life under a microscope and me having outside influences.(?)<BR>I don't trust him and he understands a divorce.<BR>Also a threat to move home as he has every right to!<P>Oh yeah....An invitation to "just sex" if I wanted.<P>Oh boy.....now I feel like ow....just sex.<P>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Gem,<BR>Who does he think put his life under a microscope he better ask Mr.Pecker about that. Isnt it nice that we dont have enough brains to think for ourselves its always them outsiders. EHHHH GADS gem with love flowerseed