Gem,<BR>How awful! It seems that your H is in a dense fog, to offer just sex just proves this. I am so sorry and I know how hurtful his actions must be. You are in my prayers.

I'm so glad you guys answered. I keep checking in while keeping busy. <P>I do have my own mind and resent that remark, Flowerseed, you are right.<P>Hey LeeLee, fog? What do you mean? About C? I really don't understand that. Explain it, will you?<P>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Dear Gem,<BR>I am so sorry that your h is being like this. I know that you must be hurting something fierce.<P>My take on the "just sex" thing is that your h is fishing to see if you still want him sexually or if you have your eye on somebody else. sounds to me like he can't comprehend that it is HIS actions that are causing the breakup.<P>either that, or he thinks that if he can get you in bed, you will reconsider the whole divorce thing. I know that my h has always thought that if he could just "get me off" he could "get me back". He often uses sex as a making up sort of thing. Guys know darn well that women can't often have sex without having the emotions that come with it. So I'll bet he thinks that if he can get you to be intimate with him, his problems will all be solved. Plus, all men think that they are secretly a superhero called "Orgasm Man" and that we weak women simply can't stay mad at them once they have turned into that caped crusader.<P>So are you thinking about going into Plan B? I've been following your posts, but I can't quite get a finger on what your plan is. or don't you have one yet?<P>Anyway, I'm thinking about you and praying for you.<BR>with love,<BR>cdcollins

Gem,<BR>He is trying to knock you down that way he feels in control dont let him get to you stay strong and stick to what you feel.One way or the other he will have to face reality. I have felt that all along it seems as soon as you have picked yourself up he does something to knock you down thats enough to drive anybody nuts. If I didnt know better I would swear he is my ex.The sex thing is just another blow. I am sorry also he thinks he has to be this way.I think men that have to act this way are really insecure even thou they try to act so with it. with love flowerseed

Gemini<BR>What I mean is your H does not realize that it is HIS actions that is causing all this heartache and could possibly end your marriage. He is in a fog, a dense fog because he is not seeing things clearly nor is he understanding all that is at stake here.

cd I think you're right. Sex the cure all. I think my plan is divorce. I don't know how or when I will call a lawyer.<P>Flowerseed, I know....it's a control thing....I should blindly trust all of his decisions, right?<P>Leelee, he has admitted it's his fault that I want a divorce. He says he understands and it's my right to not trust him, but he won't live under a microscope for anything he does. Must mean on golf nights he can stay out as late as he feels cuz he's being good. NO WAY!!! <P>I don't know what else to do. I know one thing...I better find a way to support myself now. I will. I'll have family who won't see me on the street. But I'm so scared.<P>I'm emotionless right now. Shocked how fast things have changed.<P>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Dear gem,<P>Ha! If your h thinks that you have him "under a microscope" he should try being married to me! My h isn't even "allowed" to speak to other women. Fortunately for him, he is a diesel mechanic. That is REALLY a male-dominated field.<P>I am lucky that my h is not a sociable person at all. he just likes to stay home with me and the kids. Also, females in general get on his nerves. he thinks that I am more than enough to put up with, haha! That's why the affair surprised me so much. Up until then, h usually didn't even talk to women (except me, of course) unless he had to. That's why I really believe him when he told me that he didn't make a pass at the ow. He says that she came right out and asked him "Do you want to ****?" <P>What a sleaze! <P>My husband's latest joke:<P>Q. What is the punishment for a man who commits bigamy?<BR>A. Two wives!<P>I had to think about it too for a minute. Kind of funny, really.<P>cdcollins

c.d.<BR>thanks for the laugh I think I need to go do something fun I'm in one of those blaaa blaaa moods.I think if I would have thought about it, I would have made mine stick his thingy under one(microscope) each night when he came home just to make sure there were no strange pubbys. He has got to expect to be treated that way you would think.It hasnt been that long and the kid isnt even born yet.Mine acted like he thought I would be gone if he was a few min late and would come looking for me to make sure I wasnt running away. Gem I got a job when I spit up with my ex at a party store. I only made min wage but I had the time of my life. Just an idea I dont know! with love flowerseed<p>[This message has been edited by flowerseed (edited March 26, 2001).]

I know what you mean cd. He should have such a wife! The "bigamy" joke too cute!<P>Well H just stopped by to drop a note to say he's increasing the weekly pay to help w/dr./hospital bills from my son's recent stay at hospital. We have 2500. detuctable. I'm inundated by the bills. My son has been off work since Jan. and is collecting unemployment now due to the fact lumber yard hired more people in his absence and he couldn't say when he'd return.<P>I asked him for a little help and he blew up saying he would have never gone in if he knew insurance wasn't going to pay! Oh my goodness...you should have seen him the day he begged me to take him to hospital! He was an emotional mess. <P>Just like me now.<P>Hey cd....how many mg. of prozac do you take?<P>I'm on the sera-fem 10mg. I know I need a higher dose cuz it wears off in the afternoon. It's been 2 wks. Should I call dr?<P>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

gem,<BR>I am not taking any prozac right now because I don't have any health insurance at the moment, and it costs too much to buy it without a presciption plan. Right now, I am lucky to afford toilet paper, ya know what I mean? Hopefully, when this cs mess is taken care of we'll be able to afford h's company health benefits. <P>But, when i was taking it last, I took 40 mg. per day. The standard dose is 20 mg. I took 40 because my dr. had just read research that said 40 is more effective in women. Plus, I am quite tall-almost 5'11" - and a little on the "pleasantly plump" side (although I am in good shape and very strong) so I imagine that size alone would require more than the average gal.<P>One little funny story regarding my height: When I first met my h, he was working as a bouncer at an "under 21" dance club. My girl friend (who is a good inch and a half taller than I am) and I stopped in to buy a soda. We had just come from aerobics class and were both very fit and scantily clad in tight workout outfits- my girlfriend lifted wieghts and I was muscled up from a summer of baling hay on my dad's farm. We both also had really long hair that was slightly tangled and wind-blown. My h turned to his co-worker and said, "who are those girls?" his friend said, "I don't know, but I think the myths about Amazon warriors might just be true." At that moment, my girlfriend and I decided to use the "facilities" before going on our way, and as girls do, we went into the bathroom together, not knowing that it just had one toilet. My h's friend watched us go in together and said to my h "Lesbian Amazons, no less. What a pity!" My h said that as wonderful as it was to discover later that I really was straight AND interested in dating him, he still can't quite forget the fantasies that went through his mind as he stood looking at the bathroom door that day.<P>Now, unfortunately, pregnancy has taken it's toll on my physique...my bikini days are definitely over and done.<P>Anyway, I would guess that you need at least 20 mg. for Prozac to really work the way it should. That's pretty much the standard dose.<BR>-cd<p>[This message has been edited by cdcollins (edited March 26, 2001).]

Gem,<BR>You might what to delete the messages in your email from me and your replys and sent items folder and empty the deleted items folder. That could be what your h is refering to as outsiders. That way your son wont come across them either. I was going to say something before about that. I didnt think we really said anything to terrible. Ya got me wondering thou. with love flowerseed

cd thanks for the great how we met story. I really smiled at your H's thoughts as he saw you and your friend going to the ladies room.<BR>Thanks for prozac info. I see dr. next tues. so I will ask for the 20mg. then. Oh...sorry about the toilet paper...; )<P>Flowerseed my H can't even turn a computer on! I look and delete your harmless jokes! Don't worry about a thing.<P>Hey, I watched Gary Zukav on Oprah. He said to quit feeling as if the unfairness in your life is a hinderance but rather an opportunity for change. To a fuller life. For another plan. Now if I could just hold the hope for a different life close to my heart, maybe a divorce won't be too bad. It can't be worse than H going each week to ow's to get C, that would be forever a heartache to me. Maybe I need a change......What do you think? Time to throw in the towel w/H's attitude? I kinda think....just don't know...<P>Debi <P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Gem, I am answering your questions from earlier today about our acceptance and including the oc. How have we done this? Well we are still in the earlier stages, my h was given supervised visits for three weeks for one hour each time. He completed this and has had two unsupervised visits with the oc, the visit is not at our house. We, as in me and my children, are not permitted to met with the oc until 60 have pasted since the oc first met my h. So we have about a month until that has passed. My h just met the oc for the first time during his first supervised visit. Which was a month ago. I have mentioned this in other posts as that is an issue we are struggling with lately. The oc was keep a secret from me for three years, and is still a secret to some of our family members. No my h nevered missed the oc he did not want contact up until 2 years ago. The oc is now five years old. The mother of the oc pulled a lot of crap and my h wanted nothing to do with her. Once i found out about oc I also wanted nothing to do with them and told h he was never to have contact. That was fine with him he did not want it anyway. I began thinking about our children, and all the crap the mother had pulled on us over the last three years so I told my h I thought he should seek visits. The mother was enjoying the cs $ should we and the oc not enjoy each others company? At that point we did not know were he lived and only knew his last name 2 years ago when the mother filed for cs. So we fought for over a year and just finally got court ordered visits. The mother did not want us to have any contact and she still wanted the money she even went as far as to try and terminate my h parental rights and still get the cs $ to continue. So this whole oc visitation thing is very new and my h is just getting to know the oc. Hope I answer some of the questions you had for me. If you need anything let me know and stay strong, I am praying for happiness and peace to come to you. Gabi1116

GEm, I just wanted to add one thing...I was during the early stages of discovery very much againist my h even leaving the house without me let alone, having comtact with ow and oc. I did not want him to even have contact with friends of ours that knew ow. I was sick to my stomach over the whole thing and thought about divorce and my h did not even want contact with oc or ow. The paturnity of the oc has not even been established yet so why is your h so for the visitation thing being accepted by you. The thought of my h seeing the ow made me sick three years ago but now I am better with it. Not perfect just better. I know my h is with me and I know he is staying he has not gone anywhere in the last 5 years since the birth of oc or in the last three since my discovery of oc. I just wish the two of you could talk and somehow sort out some of this mess. I am haveing a hard time understanding the push by your h for visitation with a baby that is not even born yet, and who he is not even 100% sure he is the father. I have you in my thoughts and prayers, Gabi1116

Gem,<BR>I'm kinda scared to jump in here with all the "women-folk", but I wanted to offer my opinion to this mess you're in. First off, your H just wants to meet your "girls" and is afraid he might never get to..and secondly, he wants to test you to see if you are really serious. Have you written out a Plan B letter? If not, do it. You don't have to send it, but write one up just in case. Also, when I wrote my letter to W, I was so up and down that it was driving me crazy. After the first 2-3 wks of Plan B, my attitude and emotions really improved. I personally think you H needs some Plan B so that he sees that he isn't "all that"!! He will have no doubt that he is NOT in control! My best for you and your son, and don't let the future worry you, God blesses those who do what is right.<BR>Floored

Thanks Gabi, I kind of knew the latest on your situation but wasn't sure how that came about.<BR>H is adament it's his. Why would she lie and tell everyone it's his if she wasn't so sure?(her whole family). Have to wait it out. Nothing else has gone my way...so why would that?<P>Floored, he met the "girls" a few times before he left. Funny, I wasn't even thinking about that.<P>Out of everything he's said about how I must trust him, and 3rd party would be too hard, the love drained from my body when H said "I don't hate her".<BR>I hear those words over and over in my head....<P>If he has "no emotional feelings" for her and will never be with her "no matter what happens to us" how then can he not hate her? Isn't that "emotional"? I think he's lying. It doesn't add up.... opinions greatly needed on this because it was the turning point of my asking him to get out.<P>Please give your thoughts. I wish I could have a ws thought too.<P>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Dear gem,<BR>I want to comment on your h "not hating" ow. I don't think that my h hates ow anymore. he just doesn't care about her one way or the other. Of course, he is extremely angry with her for trying to screw us over, and he is disgusted by the thought of her. But does my h hate her? I certainly hope not! hate is an all-consuming emotion. When you hate somebody, that person is on your mind all the time. I know, because I have a lot of hate for ow. I think about her all the time and how much I hate her. I can't get her out of my thoughts. that's why they say that there is a thin line between love and hate. In order to hate somebody, you have to really have strong emotions - in fact, hate is often more consuming than love is. I would be horrified to think that my h felt strongly enough about ow to hate her. I certainly don't want his every other thought to be about her, even if they are hateful thoughts. I much prefer apathy to hate. Hate binds you to a person. I used to really hate my "stalker" ex-boyfriend because he just wouldn't give up on trying to find me (he would call my parents, try to watch my little sister, etc.) But then I realized that by hating him, I was making him a part of my eveyday life even more than he was! You really only hate somebody that has hurt you very deeply. I wouldn't want to think that ow has the power anymore to hurt my h. In order to hate, you have to also really care - even if it's just in a twisted sense. Hate is just as obsessive as love is. I am much happier that h doesn't think ow is worth wasting such a powerful emotion on. H doesn't care if ow lives or dies. I couldn't ask for a better lack of emotions towards her.<P>hate isn't the OPPOSITE of love. Hate is love's evil twin. Complete apathy is the opposite of love.<P>I know that explanation doesn't solve any problems for you, but maybe it will help you look at the hate thing in a different light. <P>cdcollins<p>[This message has been edited by cdcollins (edited March 27, 2001).]

By the way, I agree with floored. I think that it would help if you considered going into plan b and following the Harvey rules for it. If nothing else, it will make YOU feel better in the long run.<BR>cd

Dear Gem,<BR>I only have a second but wanted to write that<BR>Im thinking of you and sending warm wishes your <BR>way. So your in Ohio- Im in PA. I drove thru Ohio<BR>on my way to Co when I was 19 - geez much more naive<BR>then! Anyway you really are in my prayers! Likewise<BR>its nice to know you care. I saw Oprah too. I tried<BR>keeping the kids quiet, I said let mommy watch this<BR>it'll help me! I imagine myself talking to Oprah,<BR>or Gary or Dr Phil - I wonder what they're advice <BR>would be?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>hate isn't the OPPOSITE of love. Hate is love's evil twin. Complete apathy is the opposite of love<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think I get it cd....I have only heard him say he hates her decisions on keeping pregnancy...it doesn't seem like enough.<P>Thanks for prayers Fluke. I need all I can get.<P>As for plan "b"...I guess I'm in it now. He returned my letter I wrote on the weekend unread. He does think he's "all that" after returning letter w/ one of his own telling me he understands my wanting a divorce and he doesn't blame me. I will never trust him and w/o trust we can't go on......yadda yadda yadda.....I can use him for "just sex" anytime! oh lord!!!!!!<P>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....