Ladies,<BR>I think our ow from h*** may be back using another one of her many new faces. Hopefuly I am wrong but it sure seems like her this time I think she has grown a penis.To you that are new we have a sybil ow that changes her identity as much as we change underware and comes on here to see what she can stir up.Again hopfuly its not her. with love flowerseed

Flowerseed, Please elaborate on this last post if possible. I am alittle confused and very curious. I really do not like this ow s##t, why do they find it neccessary to come here. Haven't they done enough damage. I can not really even figure out how they find this forum. The name of it is Marriage Builders not Marriage Breakers. It really amazes me. And to think I have had my computer since last August and have been searching the web, for a site like this. Look how long it took me to find it. I am so happy and really can not put into words how much all here have really helped me. I feel calmer, and alittle more like I am starting to be somewhat in control of things in my life. If what you say is true, I hope he or she gets the message to leave. Actually I wish I could find a forum where all the ow and om go to cry the blues about how horrible their lives are, I would like to crash it. And make their cyber lives unhappy. I could laugh at their tears and when they complain about how terrible things are in their lives I can say ha ha ha you did it to yourselves. Gabi 1116

Hey Flowerseed, I had an idea if you don't want to post more info, maybe we can set a time and day and who ever wants to meet in the chat room about this forum crasher can meet. I am sure whom ever it is does not have the info to get in. And we will just have to make sure for a while we do not give that info out. Let me know what you think and if anyone is interested. Gabi1116

I am game

gabi,<BR>She has been here under diffrent names about 3 times I believe just this yr. She use to post on another site and drove everyone away always comeing back as someone diffrent.I called her a dung beattle and that really pissed her off got rid of her for awhile. One of our tiggers can explain more she was one that got drove away from other site. I believe she has oc and just cant stand the fact that the kid has no father so she comes here to convince us how wrong it is that we dont include oc in our lives .Very, very sick person. At first I thought the guy that responded to lsb post was her. I dont know if it is or not.It kinda makes me wonder though why a guy whose single and marriage failed would be here trying to give us advise. I dont get it. with love flowerseed

I saw the need for raid too! Gabi...just read any thoughts from someone w/penis ! Ha HA (another thread)<P>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Flowerseed, <BR>You know, the same thing crossed my mind when I read that response, but I thought I was just being extremely paranoid. I am glad I'm not the only one whose "warning bells" went off. I just couldn't figure out what a divorced dad would be on this page to begin with. Or why ANYBODY would presume to offer an opinion on this unless they had been through it themselves.<P>Gotta almost feel sorry for "sybil", if indeed it is her. Must not have a life or a brain.<P>with love,<BR>cd

I dont think it is her. I looked threw his past post. I didnt read only one.That was enough seems to have a pretty bad attitude maybe because he wasnt able to fix what went wrong. false alarm. with love flowerseed

After I read your orignal post I did go look for posts by those with a penis I found his and read it. As usual I out pissed off because he was pushing the accept the oc issue. Boy this topic and the pushing of it has really been getting to me lately. Anyway I did fugure out who you were refering to and I do not think it is him. However, what the heck is he a divorced man doing here he really at this point unfortuntally has no marrigage left to build,and to push the oc acceptance issue is rude and I am getting sick of it. As for ow on this forum I think as I said earlier they need to go find their own forum to cry on, maybe there is one out there called marriage breakers, but we are here to help our marriages and to stay with our h. That is why this forum is called marriage builders. Gabi1116

Dear gabi,<BR>There is actually a forum just for ow, called the "Other Woman" forum. Why they don't just stay there, I have no idea. Birds of a feather and all that.<P>The biggest problem I see with today's society is that it is favoring the needs of an individual (oc) over the needs of the many (the orginal family unit). This is contrary to every explanation of democracy that I have ever seen. It also is in direct opposition to the guidelines of Christianity, the religion that, like it or not, our country was conceived under. However, there is hope. I just received a letter back from one of our state reps, which included reform proposals for cs and custody guidelines. I haven't yet had time to look through the packets- they are quite lengthy - but the rep assured me that he speaks for himself and his colleagues in saying circumstances such as ours will be taken into consideration when the current guidelines come up for review. I can only pray that this is true. I guess we will see what happens.<P>cdcollins

there is a site for "the other woman". it's on gloryb.com I guess the mentality is that there are so many BW's that go there and start up trouble they do the same thing here. the ladies on TOW have often ask why the BW's go there when it is a support group for OWs and a lot say they go to get insight on how what was going through the OW's mind. Others are there because they are hurt and they call names and threaten and so on and so forth. Some just read and never post. Same thing with this site. There are OW that come here and read to see how BW's are feeling and wonder why they stay, and so on and so forth. Some post (but I don't think it is very many. However, I could be wrong about that.) But many are just lurking and reading the posts. Sometimes a post that came from this site is reposted on the TOW site and it becomes a topic of discussion there.

Thanks for the info on the ow forums. I guess I can see that BS would go to those sites and cause trouble. I for one would not do that, but I can se it being done. They can here and cause trouble. I would hate to think that a post that one of the lovely people on this forum wrote and felt from the heart would be reposted on one of the ow sites and made a topic of discussion. How can some thrive on the heartbrake and pain of others. This is sad. <BR>What is happening to society's morals, and what is this teaching the children that will grow up and be the future. Are we to have a future society of people who do not value marriage and the family unit. How upsetting. Gabi1116

Gabi,<P>I am a lurking OW that posts occasionally on this forum. My intent is to offer my opinion/perspective without being intrusive or offensive, but mainly to obtain assistance. I have been keeping my posts to a minimum because I recognize that regardless of my opposition to EMA's, I am still technically the OW. It's a position that I was placed in unknowingly and now I just have to deal with it. Same concept with regard to the choice I made to have my son. No sob story and no expectation of sympathy. My choice was my choice. Nobody forced me. Therefore, I deal with the situation and don't whine about it. Given the circumstances of my unique situation, I come here to this board for guidance more than anything else. This is a situation that is totally new to me. I don't always know how to handle the issues that come up with the BS and/or the MM. CD and Catnip have offered me a lot of insight and great advice. I don't mean to upset or offend you, or anyone else, but I would like to continue to seek input from this board. I know it's for the BS, but I, and the BS (indirectly), can benefit from the direction this board can offer. Please let me know if that is tolerable to you.<P>OB1<BR>

This statement by onlyfriends is the kind of crap that I dont get(You are mothers with children of your own and you all know that it is not easy to raise a child with BOTH parents much less being a single parent, and children are CERTAINLY not cheap. I mean, really, could you REALLY raise your kids on 225 bucks a month? )If I remember onlyfriends has never been married,has no children but thinks she is going to be helpful slinging an insult like this at a women that has just had her whole life changed is just sick.I dont care if they are giveing only 50 bucks a month it is an expence that one never expected to have and them willing to do what they are doing out of the goodness of there hearts isnt even seen from your words onlyfriends. Shame on you ONLYFRIENDS you. <p>[This message has been edited by flowerseed (edited March 30, 2001).]

Ohbratti, <BR>I for one do think that it makes a difference that you were put in the ow position unkowingly. I would like to say that if I were in your shoes, I would have put the baby up for adoption, but I don't know how I would handle it if it really happened to me. It is one of those things- just like where I am at now - that nobody knows how they will react until they are in the situation themselves. Just like, I would like to think that if I was attacked by a stranger on the streets, i would fight for my life and beat the crap out of my assailant, but who knows. I might freeze and panic and let the assailant do whatever he wants to me. <P>i am glad you have benefited in some way by my posts, and please know that I have benefitted from yours also. I wasn't around for your early posts, so I don't know if there was a time when you were offensive, but so far, I don't have any complaints.<P>I know that a lot of people here don't agree with me on this, but I do like to hear about how you are handling contact with mm and his wife. And I admit to living vicariously through a story wherein the ow makes an attempt to make things comfortable for the wife.<P>I have been wondering about just a couple things, while we are on the subject. How do you and the father handle cs arrangements? And did you already know he was married when you told him you were pregnant. I really don't have any reason for asking other than curiosity.<P>Onlyfriends,<BR>I read in another post that you are feeling disgusted that your "friend"'s marriage is still struggling. These things take time. It isn't going to happen overnight. But they do have to be alone, without your influence, in order to repair their marriage. If indeed you have stepped out of the picture, I applaud you. but I am wondering something: If you didn't consider your relationship with him to be an emotional affair, and if indeed you were only friends, why is it that you weren't introduced to his wife as a friend, and why weren't you friends with them as a couple? Seems to me that if you didn't have anything to hide, you would have been open to including his wife in the friendship.<P>As far as cs goes, I know that it is expensive to raise children. But why should money be taken away from MY children in order to support another child? Seems like you are forgetting that I need to be able to afford to raise them too. And cs guidelines don't leave a whole lot left for the children of the marriage to live on. How can you justify paying for one child at the expense of another?

We went to court to establish custody and visitation. At the onset and through most of the pregnancy, I was so paranoid that he would try and take the baby from me once he was born. After he was born, I mellowed out quite a bit, but his W requested that we go ahead and do this "the right way". So, prior to going to court, we agreed on an amount…which was based on his wife's research. I was hesitant to talk money with them because I knew, based on my lurking, that it is a HUGE hurdle. So I let her do all the research and tell me what she thought was fair. Since I was fully prepared to take on the responsibility of my child on my own, I wasn't going to balk at whatever offer she made. He wanted to assume responsibility for his son, and she insisted that he be responsible for what he did. Sounds kind of screwy, huh? I was kind of shocked and very skeptical. I thought for sure that a whammy was coming behind this "show of responsibility". It looks like it was just me being paranoid again. I want to say that she's holding him accountable for all the pain he caused….that simple. So, we went to court and got everything formalized. We waived guideline and the judge approved it.<P>As for when I told them. Yes, by the time I found out I was pregnant, I knew he was married. All of this happened within a 2 week period. I'm not very good at keeping "stuff" to myself. I'm a chronic confessor. I would never make a good POW…I would be the first one to crack. As a kid I even confessed to stuff I DIDN'T do just to keep the peace. I think I was still suffering from what had become the habit of sharing everything with him. So, my impulse was to tell him. If I had stopped to think first, I don't know if I would have done it differently. I've asked myself that question many times, and I can't come up with the answer.<BR>

Ohbratti1, I just read your post and felt I should reply to you. I have not been offended by any of your posts directly, if I can recall correctly. If you come here and find guidence then I am happy for you. I have posted before and mentioned a very close friend that I have, who was and is ow and has a oc. She, as you , did not know the father or actually sperm donor, was married and got preganant. He wanted nothing to do with the child or her and he has not been in their lives since the day he told her so, which was almost 7 years ago. She is raising a wonderful child and managed to complete college during and after her preganancy, and is now a teacher and a great mother. I am not here to bad mouth all ow as I said one of my best friends is one. The mm that was in her life had a family, children, she does not feel it is right to ruin his life, he did not ruin hers, she is happy. However, she choose to keep her child knowing it would all be on her and she has done it and is doing a damn great job. She knows who and where the father is and at anytime could insist on DNA testing and cs orders. She does not do this, she has pride and is taking care of herself . I, for one, think she should be applauded and am proud of her, she is a real woman and can handle her responsibilities and the choices she has made. I just wish the ow in my life would take a lesson or two from my friend. She feels that my h ruined her life and is on a mission to ruin his. I do not hate all woman that get pregant without being married I did it myself, and if my h now, fiance then, chose not to stay with me, I would have done as my friend did, and not how the mother of this oc in my life does. The mother of the oc in our life swore she wanted no $ as long as we would not try and see child, we have kept our promise but after 3 years and things get tough she files for cs and gets it which is fine the law says she deserves it, but when we then file for visitation, she crys and fights it all, but all the way insisting she get the $ but my h get no contact. So you see you have to understand where I am coming from. I have nothing against you personally as I said earlier, post if you wish read what is posted I was merely refering to posts like that onlyfriends and others who have pushed the acceptance of oc issue and the right for cs issue. And the way onlyfriends was so lecturing about the $ thing makes me sick. My children are suffering my house is suffering we are in serious finacial trouble and the mother of the oc, has a brand new car and lives at home with mommy and daddy. How is this fair? And all for a one night stand . And the years of blackmail, harassing, and vows she would make my h and my life misarable. If only my h would have left us for her she would have been so happy, she has admitted that was all she wanted, to me and others. The nasty letter, the phone calls, the constant pages to my h, and then to date his best friend and use him to try and still keep her eye on my h and continue to harase him. So now can you see the pain, and bitterness I feel about her? I just think that some of the opionions and mighter than thou attitudes about cs and acceptance of the oc by bs do not belong here. We are here to heal and try and rebuild a marriage that we, have chose to stay in, comments that are meant to bring us down and hurt us do not belong here. The wonderful people that I have met here and that have encouraged and helped me deserve better than that. I myself was lectured a few days or week or so back about visitation and accepting the oc, and I was unjustly lectured. You see I have chosen to accept the oc and let him in my home, just as sweetc has. Yet a person chose without even reading anything about me to lecture me on how I should let my h visit oc without me. The post did not even realize I have let the oc in and we will be visiting with oc as a family with the oc's siblings, my children. So that is a perfect example of what gets to me about some ow onthis forum, not you per say. Hope youo now have a better understanding where I was coming from. I was merely directing my post to those who did things in any of the foolish ways I described. I wish things could be civil between us and the mother of the oc as they seem for you, but I doubt they can. Too much history and too much drama by ow. It would be nice for the children's sake, mine and the oc. Well hope I have cleared up and thoughts you may have had about my last few posts. Gabi1116

Thanks, Gabi, for the clarification. I can definitely see where you're coming from. I can't fathom behaving in such a churlish manner. You're OW sounds like a real prize...a booby prize. I feel for you. You have quite a load to carry and it is very unfair. I know all about being thrust into situations that are not of your choosing. It can be pretty damn hard to cope with. My concern, when I posted to you, was making sure that I wasn't making matters worse for anyone. That's the last thing I want to do. I'm in a pretty precarious situation. I don't quite fit in anywhere. GloryB is not for me...not by a long shot. Some of the women there actually revel in what they are doing. I would sure hate to be on the receiving end when their "due" comes around. Anyway, I don't want to be a hypocrite so I better shut my mouth about that one. As for the OC stories on this board, it is very frustrating to see someone else try to cram their way of thinking down another's throat...without any regard for the unique circumstances or consideration for what the BS can tolerate. Opinion can be very dangerous when you're thoughtless in expressing it. I learned that the hard way. I've also learned that tolerance is a wonderful tool. It has helped me through a lot of this. Everyone has limits, and we all need to respect that. I wish you better days.<P>OB1

ohbratti,<BR>Do you really think anyone from this site has went over to the GloryB site and did what onlyfriends was saying as far as starting troble? I just can't see the women here doing that. Most of us already know what the ows are thinking there not. I for one dont think I could deal with reading anymore from the ones like onlyfriends than we have to already when they show up here. I surely wouldnt go looking. What are everyones thoughts on this has anyone here ever been there. I think onlyfriends has one two many screws loose. flowerseed <p>[This message has been edited by flowerseed (edited March 31, 2001).]

Flowerseed, I for one agree with you. Who wants to go there and read what they have to say, I can not stand reading it when they come here. Well only the nasty posts that try to lecture and push ridiculous issues on us. The posts that give stupid advise that no one really asked for is hard to read here , let alone going there and looking at it. I never even knew of the site until it was brought to my attention here. I gave it a look and could not even read a single post. I too can not imagine any of us going there and causing trouble. It is like opening a can of worms that I do not want to deal with. I can hardly deal with having to read and reply to it here, let alone going there and dealing with it. And if what Ohbratti says is true and some of them actually revel in what they are doing, I can not see going there to look at that. If they take our topics here and post them there to discuss, then I feel even more sorry for them then I have. It is sick and senseless to take other peoples pain and heartache, and use it as examples for discussion. They should all just go on a talk show like Jerry Springer and show off their stuff that is where they belong, if they need to revel in what they do. Gabi 1116