This was also posted as a reply to your last post in beware get the raid out...but in case you missed it and I would not want that to happen I have pulled it up here, just for you.. and I do hope all my dear friends here will enjoy this post also....Peace and hapiness to all that are deserving, and good will come to those who give good out...Only friends I am puzzeled by one thing... this forum and more importantly this topic area is for woman and men who have been betrayed and a child is the product of the affair. So answer me this why the he## are you here. GO AWAY there are enough educated woman and men in this forum to help those in our similar situations. I for one have experience in cs and in fighting for visitation. You have admitted already that you did not sleep with a mm and would not get preg. Well even if this was true this is not the place for you. We are here to heal and repair marriages in which we have chosen to stay in. Get it that is why it is called MARRIAGE BUILDERS> How many times in how many posts must I remind of this. What is your purpose here, I have just told you all of ours. Are you or have you even ever been married and do you even know the value we here have in marriage? If you are as educated and intelligent of a person as you say then you will see my logic and go away as I and many others wish you would and I think if you chose to stay we should all just not reply to your bull. We all know about laws, pain, cs,visitation, ect some more than others. And those of us that don't can ask those that do. And there are many sites out there in the wonderful world wide web if we need to find ohther answers. WE DO NOT NEED YOUR LECTURING CRAP> GO AWAY LITTLE GIRL> You are the inmature one to come here and bother woman who are only trying to heal and help others do the same. We are all here to help ourselves, our marriages and maybe in the process help some of the other wonderful people here. WHAT really is your purpose as I see it you have none so again so away. You should be ashamed of yourself to come here and harrass woman who are only here to better themselves and their marriage. Are you even married I doubt it or you would not be looking for your so called friendship with a mm, you are pathetic and I feel sorry for you that you find a need to continue to post here in your hurtful and lecturing manner. YOu truely must be a lonely person. Don't your studies keep you busy enough, go study law and leave us poor woman folk alone. Find another site that is more your speed , titles to look for lonely and nothing better to do , I do not know you just seem like you will not fit in anywhere. Maybe a site called only friends as your name implies, I am so tired of this crap, just leave us alone to deal with our issues in the pleasant and caring way we have been we do not need this crap. I have gained alot of help here and it was definitely not from people like you!!!!!!!!!!! Gabi1116<p>[This message has been edited by gabi1116 (edited April 04, 2001).]

Gabi, <P>Don't worry about OnlyFriends, she went on TOW yesterday and put posts from here in a thread there (I've said before that people would be surprised by how many wives lurk there ). I wish I had book marked it. Anyway, she is trying to make you or anyone else she can feel bad.<P> Funny thing about that, she doesn't want her actions judged ( an emotinal affair is an affair ! And causes much pain to the BW/H.), yet she jumps in here making judgements left and right about things she has never been through. Sad.<P><P>------------------<BR>Deb<P>Hepatitis C, Please educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In</A> memory of a very dear friend <A HREF="http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp" TARGET=_blank>http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp</A>

Boz_Deb, I am not really worried about Onlyfriends I just wanted to say what I said in my last post because it was on my mind and I wanted to get it off. She really pissed me off with some of the posts I read yesterday to Flowerseed and others and I just can not figure out for the life of me why is is getting involved with us on this site she really does not even have a situation that she is in that is similar to ours. I feel bad for her that she is so lonely and bored with her own life that she needs to come here and bother the great people I have met here. Our issues are so real and life altering and children are involved, and I for one am trying to do the right thindg for all involved in my situation, oc include. But I do not need her crap of anyone else's who chooses to come here and belittle anyone here wno has give me support and strenght. Anyway if she posts our topics in TOW forum then she is sick and I really feel sorry for her. We should just pity poor souls like that who have nothing better to do with their time. She claims to be so educated and yet she can not find anything better to do than thrive on the pain and heartache of others. Let the ow read our posts maybe they can learn something. GAbi1116

OW are not "learning" anything from you, they are seeing how STUPID you are.

Stupid ? You want to hear stupid ? OK, stupid is coming to a board where people are in extreme pain and and blabbing a bunch of trash when you have never been where they are. Stupid is getting so involved with a MARRIED man that his marriage is harmed , his wife hurt, and then simpering but we're just friends.<P>And it is even stupider to copy and paste posts from this board to the Tow board to stir up agrer toward the wives here. Now go away, leave these women alone. They have never done one thing to you. You are worse than a school yard bully, you come here and pick on those who are in pain. Real classy.

If you are ONLYFRIENDS, then why are you getting SOOO involved here.It seems to me that you have more than just friendly intentions towards this man. Also , if you were really trying to help with his marriage, you wouldn't be defending a group of people that contribute to the destruction of marriages. Something is very off with you. Grow some ball and come clean. Maybe then you can redeem your lying self JUST A LITTLE!

I do not see how ow would see how stupid we are. If we are so stupid than why is it that we are the ones who still have the families. The whole family unit is still intact despite their efforts to ruin it. They are the ones who are alone and raising a child without emotional help. But then again as long as my ow gets $ she is happy, but as my lawyer said my H is no checkbook with legs and as much as she fought visitation we got it. She still wanted the $ but for my H not to have contact that is not thinking of the oc . It is only showing what matters to her $ only. Only friends why have you not answered any of my questions in my orignal post. I have directly told you you are of no use here and this place is to help us build our marriage get it Marriage Builders. What is you purpose here? I have asked you many times and you avoid my questions, you have nothing in common with these lovely people here so go away little girl. Read my orignal post get it through your head that you really have no place here. Gabi1116

gabi:<P>Honestly, although I can completely understand why you're upset, the best response in cases like this is no response.

Dear Gabi,<BR>K is right. Sometimes no response is the best response. I am often guilty of jumping in when I am upset, but I have been trying to do better. <P>I'm sure the (completely justifiable) outrage gave onlyfriends and others a big tickle. Very often people who have been preyed upon in their own lives develop a predator instinct. In the home for delinquent children, the psychologist called it the "Lifeboat Theory" When people are drowning, they will seize upon anything in order to pull themselves up. Often, they will drown anyone who gets near to them - even someone who is trying to rescue them - in the attempt to pull themselves up and save themselves. Abuse cases react the same way. They take any oppotunity they can find to hurt others and revel in the pain they inflict in an attempt to control their own emotions. My hunch is that onlyfriends was a sexual/physical abuse victim at some point in her life (I'll bet statistics would show that MOST ow are, wheether or not they are able/willing to admit it). Actually, I suspected that right from her first post, although I am sure she will come along and deny it. I am not saying this to excuse onlyfriends behavior - really there is no excuse - but knowing it gives her a perverse sense of satisfaction is reason enough not to get pulled into a sick battle with her. Continuing to argue with her or anyone else who has intent to harm will only feed the flames of the predator instinct. It's like in the old Godzilla movies. The Japanese set up the electric wires thinking that the shock of the current would kill Godzilla, when it actually only made him stronger. I say ignore her, pity her, curse her, whatever....but don't let her think she succeeded in upsetting you.<P>Onlyfriends,<BR>many people here responded kindly to your posts and tried to give you sound, caring advice regarding your situation. Some were very concerned about YOUR well-being and pointed out that you deserved to be treated better than your mm friend was treating you. What you did, taking posts from here to be used on TOW forum for a cheap giggle, was a breach of trust and an abuse of kindness. For shame.<P>cdcollins

There was nothing more to my "relationship" with my friends than just being friends...sorry, that's it. If it makes people feel better to think there was more to it, then go ahead and think it. I'm not trying to flame CD at all, NONE WHATSOEVER, but you really did over analyze the situation...REALLY. I've never been sexually or physically abused by anyone. And I honestly did appreciate the sound advise when I first came here, which is why I DID cut all contact with my friend. And when I first started posting about CS it really, honestly and truly was not meant to get anyone upset. HONESTLY. And I found the replies that I got a direct assault on me for no good reason so I get I sort of "fought back". I really don't understand how telling someone how the child support system works and why OCare given what they are could be taken as an insult. I really don't see how that happened. I wasn't LYING about anything, that's just how it works, and because I said it, flowerseed acted as if I had just pushed her face in a pile of poo or something. I don't DEFEND OW but to generalize all OW as sluts, hoochies hookers and homewreckers is in a word, unfair. It's just like generalizing any other group of people with negative connotations. What I mean, and maybe this isn't coming out right either, is that you can't say ALL black people are bad because one robbed the bank while you were cashing your paycheck; ALL white people are bad because one raped your friend and left her for dead; ALL hispanics are bad because one stole your car and you had to walk ten miles to go get help; ALL men are bad because one broke your heart. I guess the point I'm TRYING to make is that ALL OW are NOT the same. Some people are put in the position of being OW unknowingly. Some women were not the aggressors in the affairs, the men were, so how could the woman be called the "homewrecker"? I understand it's easier to be mad at someone you don't know, than it is to be mad at someone you love but sometimes, that's just not how it happens. I have a male coworker that has a child by a woman other thanhis soon to be ex wife. He completely admits that he lied to his OW about being married---he told her he was not married and had no kids when in fact, he's been married 5 years with a daughter and a son----they had a relationship for about six months but she started getting suspicious about things and finally learned from someone else that he was married, with children, and she stopped seeing him for about 2 months, but it was too late because she was already in love with him and they ended up getting back together. When they got back together, that's when the OC was produced, that's when he had to tell his wife about the affair. Ahe tried to deal with it for about a year but it was too much for her and now they are legally separated. I don't see how to justify blaming that OW when it was clearly his lies that drew her in. And CD, before you start overanalyzing, this is not MY situation. I know I'll get flamed for this one too but it wasn't meant to hurt anyone's feelings either. <BR>As far as reposting on TOW, yes, I did it---but just like I said, which some of you didn't want to believe, there are BWs that go to OW sites and stir up trouble as well. How would you all had known I went there, if there wasn't a BW from here, over there lurking? Now, I may not repost again, maybe I will, but that doesn't mean I won't be here.

Cd, Thanks for your reply. Actually, I did mention in my first post among the many thoughts that the best thing for us to do was to not reply to Onlyfriends, anymore, if she refused to go away as I suggested. I know K is right as well as you are right also. I myself did mention that and it has been a good tactic for others who have chosen the same path as onlyfriends and have come here in the past to annoy us. I have said my peace to her, and it did make me feel better. The thoughts and words I posted at the begining of this topic I felt were important to get out. I know she read them and actually I do not feel they were insulting to her only telling her the truth and like it is. Thanks again and as I said I am done, have said my peace and did not plan on discussing it with her any further. I am like this in many other areas of my life also. As a matter of fact my MIL and Sil tend to get under my skin the same way and I have said my peace to them in a similar fashion and then dropped it. It is like therapy for me once I get it out I feel better and am done. Gabi1116

cd,<BR>Isnt it scary that these type of emotional misfits are producing children and the state family independence agencys are helping them by incourageing them to keep the children they produce and molding them to be just like themselves. I never would have thought when all the things were being said about the yr 2000 that this would be one of the things that would destroy our world. God must of put us here to defend our familys and do something to correct the destuction that is sure to follow if this is let to continue. Together we will all make it and our familys will win in the end. with love flowerseed

onlyfriends,<BR>It was not my nose I felt like you were rubbing in poop it was SWEETC that was her first time posting here. She never asked for advice on child support you were just trying to be a smart [censored] with your reply to her. If I had gotten a reply from someone like you when I first came here spilling my heart out like sweetc did I would not have felt comfortabe posting again. WE are very careful here not to try to hurt anyone then they are already hurting. You dont seem to understand that. This is a marriage builders site to repair marriages. GET IT!<p>[This message has been edited by flowerseed (edited April 05, 2001).]

onlyfriends,<BR>thou dost protest too much.<P>flowerseed and Gabi,<BR>please remember when you are hurt and when you are angry that every strike against the downtrodden, every strike against marriage, every strike against the family is a strike against God. Every time someone revels in our pain, God is weeping with us. God is forgiving, compassionate, merciful. But He is also the final judge and jury. I, for one, would be wary of inflicting further distress on those of us who are defending His sanctioned institutions: marriage, family, etc. Where there is evil, there will be vengeance. If i was a person who found pleasure in tormenting betrayed spouses, I would be mighty scared on Judgement Day. Of course there are ow who have been tricked into committing the sin, just as there are ow who are now truly repentant. As for the rest, let them lurk and laugh all they want. But do try not to "give the devil his due".<BR>with love,<BR>cd

c.d.,<BR>That didnt sound quit right what I meant was god must of put us on this earth to defend and save our familys from the evil one. I only come here for support not to have to defend us or our familys from misfits. I dont think we should have to come here for that.( But do try not to "give the devil his due".) I hear ya. with love flowerseed<BR>

Dear flowerseed,<BR>Oh I didn't mean you should have to defend your family HERE. I just think that you should be able to come here for support and not have to worry about getting attacked. What I was basically trying to say was what Catnip says so concisely and eloquently: "Don't let the [censored] get you down." They'll get theirs in the end. hahaha<BR>with love,<BR>cd

c.d. <BR>Now I really got things screwed up. What I was saying is my one reply didnt sound right. When I reread it sounded like I was saying god must of put us on marrige builders to defend our familys that sounded silly to me. That wasnt what I meant. oh me oh my heee hhhee I better shut up Iam confusing myself. with love flowerseed

I usually could care less about giving a flamer the time of day...but I just have to tell ONLYFRIENDS that regardless of her situation do not come her and tell us that all ow are not the same. Let me first say that there is the rare exception of the ow who honestly didnt realize her "boyfriend" was married, but the moment ow finds out and continues regardless of the family who is being betrayed she loses her innocence. You say ow was already in love and so the affair continued, she was then just as self-serving as ow who know from the beginning. She cared not for the wife or the young innocent children...only for herself. Please do not come here to defend ow, they carry enough offense for themselves.<P>Once again, how did you end up here...you arent married, no boyfriend, not on ow, not an oc...how did you stumble upon this place OR tow board for that matter? Are you starting trouble over there too?<P>broken_wings

Ladies & Gents:<P>It's a battle of wits and you're battling the unarmed. That's bad etiquette. If this female wants to offer opinion in such a thoughtless, mean-spirited manner, don't give her the satisfaction of responding. At this point, she's not interested in being "helpful". Her agenda is to be abrassive and combative in the hopes of stirring up trouble. My dog has more manners than her. She's feeding off your pain. Don't do this to yourselves. Remember the phrase "choose your battles wisely"? Trust me, this one is NOT worth it.

Onlyfriends,<P>I don't normally respond to posts such as these. I, like K, feel that it is better to ugnore those who come here with a chip on their shoulders, or an ax to grind. I did, however, respond to you when you first showed up on this board. Yes, you came here looking for advice, but it was to the wrong board for your situation. I think that you got the advice you were looking for, took that advice, which I commend you for, but you are now antagonizing those of us who originally offered you that advice. I haven't read everything that you have posted, but what I have read these past couple days has even offended me. See, I am not in the exact situation these women are in, as I am the one who got pregnant from a MM. My H is one of the few men on this board who love their wives so much, they are willing to raise this child as their own. <P>Now, to get to my point in responding. I wanted to say that these women, whom you seem to think have it in for every OW, are some of the most amazing women I have ever had the privlidge to "meet"!! To see someone judging their reactions to a topic that is a very sore subject for them really tears me up!! They do not think that every OW is a sl%$ or a wh%$& either. There are others here who aren't in my exact situation, but are OW, whoare accepted here, because they have earned it. Recently, it has just been myself and Obratti1 who have been posting who can be in the OW catagory. The OW who are reffered to in the deragatory sence are those, like the woman who became involved with the guy at your work. She may not have known at the beginning, but she never should have gone back to this guy after she did find out about his family! That is wrong, no matter what she felt for the guy!! She never gave them a chance to see if they could save their marriage! It takes a lot more than 2 months to repair that kind of damage! Most of the women on this board are in the middle of the CS fight, and know the frustrations of paying this money to a child that neither their H's or themselves had a choice in. I agree with those that say it is completely unfair that the wives and children have to pay in yet another way for their H's mistake! Yes, it does take two to make a baby, but in the legal world, the woman can choose what she wants to do, without even considering the man, other than using him to finance her life for the next 18-21 yrs! If that's not unfair, I don't know what is!! In our case, the OM doesn't know, and hopefully never will. We are getting our marriage back on track, and don't need the OM's interferance. These OW who milk the MM for all they can are NOT being fair to the children or wives who were there, in many cases, years before these OW ever showed their faces(or other parts)!! That is where the women on this board have such a problem with the posts you gave regarding CS. Most of them know the laws, and how unfair they are, and offer the best support to the newcomers they can, without upsetting them, and scarring them off the board. If they hit them with the total unfairness of the situations on the first post, these other newcomers probably won't come back. No, they don't sugarcoat it either, because I have never seen any of those newcomers get angry at the advice they have been given. You should go back into the archives to read some of the history for these women and see what they have been through and are going through before you judge them! They have every right to feel the way they do about the OW's, especially those who took advantage of the MM and purposely got pregnant to try to trap the MM. In fact, that is sort of what happened to me, but the MM was trying to get me pregnant. I take my full blame in the situation, and will live with it the rest of my life. But, if you don't believe me, go back to some of my old posts to read about the MM's supposedly getting blackmailed into getting me pregnant and me figuring it out. Although, with the timeline of my pregnancy, he had already succeeded, without knowing it. Luckily, he never found out at the time, and is now thousands of miles away from here.<P>The point I am trying to make is you really have no use here anymore. You took our advice, broke it off with your "friend" and have had no contact. Therefore, you don't have any need to be here. You could possibly go to other boards here, and get more help, but our situations on this board have nothing to do with you or your situation at all. Please let the people here mend their marriages and deal with their situations without your input. Unless you can be objective about your advice, I would suggest not posting anymore. These women go through enough on a day to day basis without the added stress of people beating a dead horse about the CS laws. What was it that you said, you were going to school to "work in the system"? If you really do see how unfair the laws are in these situations, maybe you could try to help those out who are getting cheated, but working from the inside. There's a thought. Work on having two different types of CS. One for the divorced, and one for the OW situations. Everyone cries for these OC/OW, but no one thinks of the children and wives that were there first. It's all in who filed for CS first! Think about that, and what you would do or feel if you were in the wive's possition before you "flame" the women here for "flaming" you!<P>Think about it.<P>Tigger