Here goes, probably a long one too! My H had an affair, ( he doesn't call it that he says they had sex) anyway they never had a relationship she grabbed him and to be perfectly frank whipped it out and did what she thinks she does best (she brags about it) My H was a wimp and just couldn't say no and then she would not go all the way that way and so he slept with her a total of 12- 15 times, ( this I know to be true) She knew he was married and she knows all about me and our kids, My h was working nights and we were having our own problems which he felt he had to share with her because she was always there, anyway he was getting fired and he mentioned that to her and guess what, she said oh lets have sex without a condom I am safe now, well she wasn't was she and she knew it, that was in 95 in April 96 she had a c and I found out in December of 97, My husband had done a DNA test to see because she demanded it, if I had known before hand he would not have done it, anyway it came out 99.0% but DNA is never 100% it can not prove it ever only prove that you are not the father, ( I have spent alot of time at divorcenet.com/paternity establishment issues )Anyway my H told her at the time I found out that he wanted nothing to do with her or the c he had had nothing to do with it up until that point anyway, so she is scared of me and she got a boyfriend to move in with her and for a couple of years we have heard nothing from her until October 2000 she moves into a new house, she thinks that great she doesn't know where I live ( meaning me) and started looking for my H she found him and started badgering him to see the c every week she showed up until he gives in, well up until Februay of 2001 he saw the c took ow and c to his sisters and his mothers, (his mother is a pure ***** but ya gotta laugh at this she told my h to think of it as donor sperm) His sister does not want anything to do with oc at all because of how it would affect her kids, and I find out about it all later after the fact, I was really upset because I know my h was looking for approval from his family and he did not get it, anyway that is not the only issue the ow actually asked h to be a sperm donor so her son could have a brother, how many of you have been there? not many I bet, she is a real prize I tell you, She thinkd that my h would move in with her and th oc because we have 2 girls that are growing up anyway ones 19 the other is 13 but she also did not know that we have a baby girl 18 months, I delivered that news myself, I wanted to be the one to do that, I think h tried to do the daddy thing with oc because it was a boy and men and their egos you know, there is no bond the c will be 5 years old this month, the thing that makes me sick is that the ow told her c from October the firs time he saw him that that was daddy, I would wait alot longer than that if it was me but she lives a whole fantasy life that my h and her and oc will live happily ever after and the rest of us just dissapear, I wrote her a letter a couple of weeks ago telling her that she is wasting her time that we have a baby and that if she really wanted my h involved in oc life then she had better be prepared to go to court as I would encourage h to go for joint custody etc etc, not that I would my kids do not know nor will they ever if I can help it, I want nothing to do with oc at all as far as I am concerned it is her child thats it, The other funny thing is is that I had seen this person many years ago and she is not very nice looking but I had not seen her in years and my mind played games with me, so one day last week we followed her and Boy did I laugh she is really unattractive even worse than I remembered but I had to do that because In did not think I could stand not knowing what she looked like, I mean you could sit down in a restaurant next to the ow and not know it ugh that would be awful, My h is not paying cs because she got himto seethe c by threatening him with cs but she knows that the most she could get is $100.00 a month as our income is low on purpose so I really do not think she will even file but if she does I will send the checks not my h, I have never seen the c my h says the oc does resemble him but that he has his mothers eyes, My sister in law has some pics which I plan to get and send back to ow asap along with another note, oh did I say I told her in my note we could meet for coffee sometime, had to do that as she is a lier and had me put in jail once for threatening her even if I did not,the coffee thing makes it look friendly and to tell you the truth with what I wrote in that letter I doubt if she will show it to anyone ever, she also lives with her mother and has no father herself, she leaves oc with her mother so she can party, she is extremely materialistic, she even had the nerve to ask h if he would give his car to oc when he turned 16, turned h right off, sorry for the ramble I have no one to talk to, no one in my family knows and I really don't have any friends except my h and family and I can't talk to any of them about it, my sil knows but she is a ditz anyway and it is her brother, I really want it all to go away but I know it won't, some days I look at my h and think "go live with her thenI can laugh at you and what you have now and what you have lost" other timews I want to shoot him and other times I just want to cry, everyday I think about it never does a day go by that I don't, I am so glad I found this board and all of you who are in a similar situation,thank for listening gotta go now kids are here

Dear fizzpop,<P>Let me extend a warm welome to you. It's sad that you have to be here, but you'll find some of the best advice, laughs, name-calling, and support on this board. We're all here due to some pretty crummy circumstances but take if from me, soon enough, you'll have a couple of good days inbetween those shootkillhateresentyourstupida@# days. Hang in there!<BR>Mat

Dear FizzPop,<P>JUst wanted to welcome you to this forum. Sorry you have<BR>to be here but there are lots of wonderful men and women<BR>here to help. I hope you keep posting. It helps. Take care!

fizzpop,<BR>Just when I think these fruit loops cant possibly get any worse. A sperm donor so her son could have a brother I think that one takes the cake. How do any of us not totally lose it. I'm interested in your research as far as the dna thats something that has bothered me in the results it said my h could not be ruled out as the father. We just agreed to what they wanted we didnt think h had a choice.I think it was 99.94 Have you seen cases where the men are not really the bio fathers? They did the cheek swab thing not the blood. I wasnt to happy with that either.I think we should have demanded the blood draw. It seems to me if there are not very experianced in these things it could be screwed up pretty easy. We have no contact with either ow or oc she just gets her weekly pay for bending over a couple of times. Its been 2 yrs May 5 since my nightmare began in all this. I would have never made it without all the great people here together we will all get there glad you found us fizzpop. with love flowerseed

<BR>flowerseed,<P>Here's the way it works. DNA can prove with absolute certainty that a man is NOT the father of a child. This is indicated by a "zero percent probability of paternity" finding. However, DNA cannot prove that a man IS the father of a child. This is because there are other men with DNA sufficiently similar that the testing cannot tell the difference. DNA can indicate how *likely* we are to see someone with similar DNA sampled from the population at random. The degree of similarity is referenced by the test results. In the case of fizzpop's H, the reported result is 99.0%. This means that we would expect to see a similar DNA finding in 1 out of every (1/(1-(99.0/100))) or 1 out of every 100 men sampled at random. If the OW in fizzpop's situation was sleeping with 2 MMs at once, the odds are about 1 in 100 that they pinned paternity on the wrong guy.<P>In your H's case, the odds are 1 in 1,667 that paternity is someone else's. My own view is that 99.0% is not sufficiently remote, although some states use 99.0% as a legal threshold. There are known cases where a man had 99.0% DNA match, demanded a more accurate test, and was later shown to NOT be the father.<P>Bystander

bystander,<BR>Is there a possibility that by doing the cheek swab testing instead of the blood draw that they can mess things up? It really doesnt matter at this point but it is something that has crossed my mind. Thanks flowerseed

Bystander,<BR>Just some hypothetical questions:<P>Suppose the ow had slept with both my h and my h's brother. If their dna was very similar, how exactly would the state go about determining who was actually the father?<P>What if my h was one of identical twins, and ow slept with both of them? Could they even determine who fathered the child? Or what if she slept with one of them but BOTH deny being the one she slept with?<P>In our case, oc looks very much like my h, and it's not very likely that she boinked my bil, so I can kind of figure out who the father is, but those hypothetical questions have been on my mind, for whatever reason.<P>BTW, h's cs modification hearing is set for may 3. I'll be sure to let you know how it comes out.<BR>cd

<BR>flowerseed,<P>Its always possible that a lab mishandled DNA. You should demand that the lab be accredited by the American Association of Blood Banks and maintain a clear chain of custody for the sample. I should note that *any* DNA can theoretically be tested by all the different DNA tests that are available. Generally speaking, though, cheek swabs are analyzed with the faster but less accurate polymerase chain reaction (PCR) technique. Typical accuracy from a PCR test is 99.0%. You are much better off demanding a Restriction Fragment Length Polymorphism (RFLP) test. Its slower, its more expensive, it requires blood, but its also much more accurate.<P>cd,<P>Fraternal twins (or regular brothers) would be sufficiently different in a DNA test that you could determine one man was certainly not the father. The hypothetical case you pose about the identical twin is interesting, and as you would guess poses problems for the conclusive use of DNA in paternity testing. In short, monozygotic (identical) twins have exactly the same DNA: They are true clones of one another. It is impossible for DNA testing to distinguish which monozygotic twin male fathered a child, as they would have exactly the same DNA test results. Given this, in cases of contested paternity, the courts would have to resort to other evidence in establishing paternity. I do know of woman who was sleeping with her husband and her husband's identical twin brother. She does not know who the "real" father is, although the assumed paternity laws apply in this instance. Btw, the husband is aware of the infidelity and the implications of what's happened. He once told me that the child is either his or its an OC. But if its an OC, it has his genetic makeup anyhow. <P>Bystander

Dear Fizzpop,<P>Just wanted to take a moment before I go to work to tell you that you have found the place to come for this horrid situation. Can honestly say the sperm donnor thing was a new one. What can you do but shake your head at such desperation. Almost feel sorry for her. Note I said ALMOST. Hussy. Anyways, How have you been able to deal so far with no one to talk to? I also was a late comer here as far as that goes. I kept a lot bottled inside and it has been popping out lately. Hey! Is that where the name FIZZPOP comes from? Well gotta go...you are in my prayers.<P>Love and Prayers<P>Broken_wings

bystander,<BR>They did the samples at the hospital and sent them to a lab. When we went there it was set up to be blood draws but for some reason ow was throwing a fit didnt want to hurt the baby. The hospital wasnt sure if the lab would take samples from a infant under 6 months. They did h first and then we left. We at the time were in a state of shock and didnt handle things as we would have had we had more time to adjust to all of what was going on.They insisted that it was just as accurate. flowerseed

<BR>flowerseed,<P>The courts can approve blood draws on young children in cases of contested paternity. If they approve, the OW must comply or no paternity judgment can be made. I should again point out that the accuracy of the test is independent of the method of collecting DNA. You can run a less-accurate PCR test on either buccal swabs or blood, and you can run a more accurate RFLP on either buccal swabs or blood. However, PCRs are usually done on buccal swabs and RFLPs are usually done on blood. The accuracy of the test results you received suggest that the odds of a mispaternity are as high as 1 in 100. IMO, that's not sufficiently certain of paternity given the enormous hidden alimony being extracted in the name of "child support." In any event, its quite unlikely that a court would allow your H to relitigate paternity now that a judgment has been entered. Their main consideration is gleefully crucifying someone on the income shares cross; justice isn't even an afterthought.<P>Bystander

bystander,<BR>Yah I know I long as somebody is paying for this kid thats all they really seem to care about. It almost sounds like a lottery. I guess we live and learn. I know I dont ever want to have to use what I have learned over this one again. Thanks flowerseed

Hi, flowerseed if you go to <A HREF="http://www.divorcenet.com" TARGET=_blank>www.divorcenet.com</A> and click on paternity establishment issues then look for a post from a lawyer named gorin, it is about a case in a california court where a judge threw it out and basically said 99.?% was not enuf to prove paternity, if you can not find it ask joan on the board, she has been there a very long time and knows alot about it, also there is another poster named ep he is a bit of a pain but he knows alot to, I have spent alot of time on reading the posts on this board and it is very informative, when my h had his done only 3 markers were checked, most labs will do 8 so what does that tell you, also they used something called pstl not sure but I was told not very accurate, good luck and do go to that website, it is good and joan has been fighting the battle for alot of years as have a few of them, I do not post there anymore but I do read and it does help! oh well maybe this weekend I will see sil and see what she really thinks

fizzpop,<BR>Thanks I'll check it out. We have already been paying for 1 yr now. I dont think much can be done at this point. The test was DNA-PCR there is 7 lines.(99.94%) The prosecuting attorney sent a letter right after this was done said h had 10 days to sign an order for support so we assumed that was that and he went and signed it. About the ugly ow I dont think they can get any uglyier then the one my h doinked. with love flowerseed

Hey flowerseed, about ugly oh my ow is so ugly she has a mustache, my h never even kissed her, she was okay with that, guess she is so ugly no one does, he never even saw her nude, she is way too ugly and obviously she knows it, geez doesn't it feel good to did the other woman? hey I know we should post their pics on the web sit are you hot or not and see what everyone thinks LOL hey maybe I will I do have a few pics of her on my puter as I took them the other day so I could have a good laugh now and then LOL

Ok now that would be funny. I do not have any idea what ow looks like and that still bothers me. Maybe someone elses ow is the same, you never know with these nuts. Anyones ow from AZ? lol<P>Love and Prayers<P>bw