Recently, you returned to this foum after an absence saying that you had "fallen into a pit" of sorts and couldn't crawl out. As I think about how I've been feeling lately, I think I've done the same.<P>How did you manage to "get a grip" gain and continue the trudge forward? After 2 1/2 years, I'm growing so weary of the daily struggle to keep my marriage/life/career/sanity<BR>going. I think at the heart of it all is the regular weekly contact we have w/OW due to pick up/drop off of OC for visitation. I also have dozens of unanswered questions.(some unanswerable, I know)<P>The injustice of all this is almost more than I can handle. Those hurting the most are those who had no part in "perpetrating the crime." Ugh!<P>Thoughts?

anniem,<BR>So sorry to hear you are having such a hard time. What is going on that is doing this to you. Heavenly hasnt been here in a while. I hope she is all right.Let us know how we can help. with love flowerseed

anniem, your post reaffirms my decision not to let H have contact with Onow or in foreseeable future. My fears are that continued contact with Oc or OW will immeasurably continue the torment of this whole sordid mess. I know not seeing either, or having H see other, is a start to rebuilt our life and not supporting the life H and Ow created away from me and my two kids. The fact that hurts-although affair went on for 3 years, H only spent 1-2 hours a week with OW, and really was there for me and kids all through this time. He admits that,even therapist was surprised of how little time he spent with Her. For that little time, he has damaged our life forever, as for sure the OW. I want her to pay for damage, and that means H has no contact with child. More importantly, I need him to put me and our kids first, not OC, or I cannot heal. As it is, it will never end unless CS payments are given up if in God's plan OW finds a man to marry and adopt OC. I pray that happens, because our tie into them will never end while we pay huge CS for 18 years.But it is a start. Tell us what is going on AnnieM-I can learn from you, I am sure.

Anniem,<BR>Just wanted to let you know that I am sorry that you find yourself in this dark place. Please let us know how we can help. Hugs and prayers being sent your way.

Anniem, I too am sorry to hear of your recent fall, and hope by coming here you can gain some courage and solid help to move on and put this short, I hope, set back behind you. I too have been feeling a sort of set back lately. I am not really of much help to others lately and really do not seem to have the energy to look for the help I may need. I am interested to know a little more about you visitation arrangements, we have started with ours and have run into a few problems already with the ow. Do you think your problem could be a combination of a few things, I feel mine may be also not just related to ow/oc and also be the time of the year, weather, stress in general, then I think well maybe, but the ow/oc will always be there and I just have to make sure that they do not beat me and ruin my life. I am stronger!!!!!!!!!You need to believe that in yourself also. Take care, stay well, you are in my thoughts and prayers, Peace, Gabi1116

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Dear Anniem,<P>God has never failed to place me in the right place at times for those who need me. I turned on the computer this morning and saw my name mentioned twice and I knew that I had to respond. This will be long and I apologize for that.<P>Dealing with this issue day after day is difficult enough, but we do so with a smile on our face pretending that we are fine when in reality, we are far from fine. I pretended for years that I was the perfect, well-adjusted woman without dealing with the real emotional scars that the betrayal and complete upheaval of my marriage had caused.<P>It was only when I came to MB Forum last year and found so many other women dealing with this situation that I began to look inside myself and see how much devastation there was. But looking at yourself with absolute honesty also has a price. My price was it plunged me into deep despair and I thought I would never climb out of "the pit" again.<P>But, I did. And, Anniem, I can say with all my heart that my marriage is better than it has been in a very long time because I finally hit bottom and made the conscious decision to start up again.<P>While I was on the bottom, I read everything I could get my hands on about affairs. There is nothing at all about children from affairs (I have always wanted to write a book and I am seriously considering this topic). I wallowed in self-pity, played sad songs, cried and let myself feel the absolute misery of my situation as the innocent victim.<P>Out of that desperation, there came a new light. I looked at myself and decided that I no longer wanted to be a victim. I wanted to live -- a real, full life. And, at that point I only had two choices -- stay with my H or leave.<P>I have been married for almost 20 years. My H has been my best friend, my soul mate and the only man that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. But, if I made the choice to stay I realized that it had to be under new terms. I had to forgive him.<P>Not just SAY I forgive him, but actually forgive him. Accept what he had done, know that it was not done to hurt me and give up the small and petty revenges that I carried out from time to time. But to do that, I also knew that I had to have complete and total disclosure. I had to have the answers to the unanswered questions.<P>My H has been very defensive over the issue of the OW/OC. He has reassured me that he has no feelings for the OW, but he still has never said anything nasty about her and he defends her a bit for "raising a child alone". The fact that he would never condemn her has always been a major point of contention between us.<P>I picked a time and place where we were both at ease and I told my H that I needed to talk about the A and the OC because for the first time since it happened, I wanted to forgive him and move on. I kept re-assuring him that I was not fishing for information to use against him, but only as a means of healing myself. I asked him to be honest and to tell me what was in his heart even if it hurt me so that we could finally move on. And, I promised him that I would not respond with anger.<P>Well, it worked. Keeping calm and emotionless was the hardest part. I won't go into the details of the conversation because it would take too long. But, I listened without anger and I began to understand that he had also suffered through this whole event. I had really never given credence to his suffering.<P>Once my H saw that I was not judging him or angry with him, he opened up and told me a lot of things that he had kept to himself. It was hard hearing some of it, but I needed to know. I needed to make some sense of what had provoked the affair and why we had arrived at this awful place.<P>His answers surprised me also. There was no big emotional attachment to the OW. She was simply available. He did not even particularly like her, she was basically just sex without attachment - he thought. He also said that he didn't give much thought to pregnancy because if it happened he assumed she would have an abortion. He was naive, he was foolish and he was HUMAN. <P>So many of the fantasies that I had built up in my mind about him and the OW and the OC were simply just that - fantasies. He felt that he wanted to take responsibility for the OC because he had lied so terribly to the OW. He had made her a lot of promises that he knew he did not intend to keep. In his mind, the OW/OC were totally separate from his real life with me and our children.<P>There were so many things that came out of that talk and it continued for days -- but I was careful not to allow the anger to creep back in. I feel now that I have forgiven him completely. That has made the difference for both of us in our relationship.<P>I was afraid to stop being a victim because it had gotten so comfortable. I was afraid that I would not have a special place with my H if I was not playing that victim. Well, now, I am his wife again -- an equal partner. I am now responsible for my own happiness, not depending on him to make things up to me. It feels great and we are both happier because we are taking our new steps together.<P>Anniem, I don't know what you are feeling exactly, but we've all been through hell and we have earned the right to fall into the pit every once in a while. But, if you can use this pain to build a better tomorrow than it will be the best thing that could have happened to you. <P>Stop being a victim, not for your H, but for yourself. Decide today that the OW and the OC have taken enough of your thoughts, and your time, and your happiness. You are going to make your own happiness. Since you and your H have visitation with, the OC can come along for the ride but it is YOUR car. <P>Write to me anytime Anniem. If you are having problems similar to mine, I would be happy to share with you what my H told me about the A and his feelings about OW and OC. Maybe his thoughts would help you to deal with your own H.<P>We are all in this together. You are never in that pit alone and we are not going to let you stay down. Let me know how you are doing. I hope I was able to help a bit.<P>love,<BR>heavenly<P>

...and flowerseed...<BR>thanks for thinking about me. It felt good to write to all of you today. <P>love,<BR>heavenly

Anniem,<BR>I'm bringing this up to the top because I was worried about you when you did not reply. With all of the traffic lately on the forum, I was afraid that you missed my reply.<P>love,<BR>heavenly

I am new to the posts, but seem to have a lot to say lately. I just wanted to say that I have had so much support from everyone the past few days. I know that I haven't even gone through HALF of what most of you have gone through, but I have so much respect for all of your opinions and suggestions that I felt compelled to post. I think it's to our credit that we have all found this forum/message board, and hense found each other. I searched and searched for answers in books, as well as trying to find other women who had been through this and SURVIVED with their marraige intact...all to no avail until now! However, this doesn't mean that we aren't going to go through some tough times, I guess. I have to say that what was said above about hitting the very bottom, although a glim prognosis, is probably the only way to work back up. Each of us is going to or has had our own version of what really is the VERY BOTTOM. I just hope that we can all continue to support each other in our various stages of healing and recovery...as it seems at times that we are all that we have. Yes, our H's and sometimes our families are trying to be loving and supportive, but they cannot completely understand and appreciate the ANGUISH that this has caused. I am sure you are all or have been like me and you get tired of people who have NO IDEA the depth of what we are feeling saying to us, "Oh, just move on, it'll be okay." To that I say, "Today is NOT okay. What is happening in my life is NOT okay. Maybe tomorrow I will feel more okay, but I won't know till I wake up!" I have had to realize that THIS IS NOT NORMAL...and we can't always walk around acting like everything is NORMAL. We are doing ourselves a great disservice if we do that! So, having said that, I will pay special attention to each and every person on here as best I can to see what I can possibly do to help when someone is going into the "pit." <P>Did any of that make any sense????

You make perfect sense, Fighting Irish ...<P>I think that people tell us to get on with our lives for a variety of reasons. They truly don't know what to say. Until this happens to you, you simply never, ever believe something like this could. As you said, they also don't KNOW what it feels like. Someone on the forum once said how horrible it was to think of a child calling your H, father of your children, "daddy", but not calling you "mommy". <P>And, some of it is fear. If our perfect marriages can come to this, why not theirs? Our situation makes them know that nothing is perfect and that is frightening to our friends and relatives.<P>There are a lot of wonderful people who post here and we can all find comfort and support if we open up and ask for it.<P>I know you are in a pretty terrible state of mind right now, Fighting Irish, but I can guarantee that dawn is just around the corner. You'll make it through and we will all be there to help you.<P>Blessings to you,<BR>heavenly

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