First, I want to thank happy-girl for emailing me about the safe haven. I do so appreciate being included.<P>but I have some concerns about it at the same time. For me, one of the great things about this forum is hearing how other people are working through this. Listening to what the old and new members of the forum have gone through. Having a complete cache of old posts to go through, with topics of all kinds, good and bad. where would I be today if I had not had those first few responses to my initial post, had I not the wealth of knowlege and wisdom available to me? Going quickly, quietly insane I am sure. I remember that babstr responded to my initial post within seconds, and I can recall the wave of relief that washed over me as I realized that indeed I was no longer alone. Then as time progressed, I read Bystander's precise criticisms of the cs system, which helped me realize that I was correct in feeling the calculations were unfair. I read Catnips eloquent descriptions of her trials and triumphs, which helped me imagine overcoming my own adversities. I read K's even-handed, level-headed advice, which helped me to examine more fairly how I was handling my part of the marital union. Oh, and so many more. Like heavenly's post about what husbands think they can do for the oc. Before my time, but still there, right at my fingertips.<P>I am just afraid that if a large portion of the advice and wisdom takes place behind "closed doors" there we will all miss out in the end. Especially the newbies who haven't yet found their way here. Everything we go through is valuable. Every scrap of experience is needed.<P>There are always going to be interlopers here. Sometimes I respond to them, sometimes I don't. sometimes I am not responding to an interloper in order to help THEM, or even in order to defend myself. Sometimes I am responding just because it helps me to work out my thoughts on a particular subject that comes up. And many many times I am glad for the interlopers because they seem to bring out the best from some members. Bystander for instance. I just drink in every one of his responses. And I can specifically recall some of Catnip's responses to interlopers going straight to my heart. And, on the lighter side, flowerseed's nasty, hilarious remarks about interlopers have afforded me many a giggle on an otherwise dreary day.<P>I don't blame anybody for wanting a safe haven. Indeed this is supposed to be one, and sometimes it isn't. I guess I just wanted to explain my reasons for staying here.<P>with love,<BR>cd

cd:<P>I agree with you on email "lists". You end up not contributing to the overall knowledgebase that exists here. In addition, emailing correspondance can often take the form of a "therapist/client" relationship, which isn't always the best situation (unless you happen to be a trained therapist).<P>This is simply a phase that the boards (all of the ones here at MB) go through at times. It's usually of short duration (1-2 weeks). Although I think it's fine to have an email list to have ***** sessions on---I'd encourage everyone to still participate on the boards.

c.d.'<BR>I think your right I was thinking on the same lines. I guess what we will have is both worlds really. I think what happy is saying that just when things get to rough for some they can go there and not be bothered. <P>Everytime you or bystander put these people in there place it makes me feel like there is justice. Have you seen that it seems these people never respond to bystander. I really think he leaves them speachless. with love flowerseed

Actually he didn't leave me speachless, he left me annoyed with his self rightousness. Wasn't worth much response. To those of you that have nicely asked about my situation or responded I have answered, but why answer to someone who quotes people all the time, why not form your own opinions? OH wait I forgot on this forum we are all supposed to think the same way.

<BR>LW-I (not LW-II?) writes:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Actually he didn't leave me speachless, he left me annoyed with his self rightousness.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>How quaint. LW resorts to ad hominem. The last refuge of those unable to address the factual points of the debate.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>To those of you that have nicely asked about my situation or responded I have answered, but why answer to someone who quotes people all the time, why not form your own opinions?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The use of quotation avoids ambiguity, and allows the reader to properly follow the point(s) being rebutted.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>OH wait I forgot on this forum we are all supposed to think the same way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't recall anyone ever saying that except you.<P>Bystander

In order to all think the same way you first have to have something to think with.

Lurking woman,<P>I have tried to be open-minded about you, primarily because I think your concern for the oc was genuine, if perhaps misguided. As my responses to you have been fair, i hope you listen carefully to what I am about to say.<P>Your presence here is causing pain. Not to me in particular, but that's probably just because I am thick-skinned (or is it thick-headed?) enough not be bothered by it. <P>You seem to be a fairly intelligent/educated person. Certainly you can see that you are not doing any good by posting in such an argumentative/belittling manner. you're not saving any children by being here. This isn't even the forum for such an agenda. This is a forum dedicated solely to marriage building - hence, the name.<P>I just heard a quote last night on TV that you may want to think about before you continue to post here: "you can measure a person's dignity by their ability to see dignity in others." That you cannot see the courage and dignity that is so apparant in each and every one of the men and women here, is something that should give you cause for concern. I suggest, therefore, that you re-evalute your reasons for being here, and act accordingly.<BR>cdcollins

c.d.<BR>We are not the ones useing children to rape our way into others familys. Actually I think what some if not most ow do to the oc by using them to extort money or whatever sick twisted things they use these kids for should be considered child abuse would you not think somebody that wanted to help children would be hanging out at the ow boards. Where maybe they could do some good. with love flowerseed<p>[This message has been edited by flowerseed (edited April 17, 2001).]

One further comment on the statement of "OH wait I forgot on this forum we are all supposed to think the same way." One this forum, we don't all think the same way. There are those who DO have contact/visitation with the OC. There are those who are TRYING to have contact/visitation with the OC. There are those who are willing to raise the OM's child as their own. There are even those who are willing to have the OM involved in the OC's life. So, I don't feel that everyone is out to say that it is either them w/out contact w/OC or the highway. And for that statement, some marriages couldn't handle the stress of having the OW involved in their lives, other than being a bill to be paid each week or month. One of the major Harley points to help save a marriage in which one or both of the spouses has had an A is absolutely NO contact with the OW/OM!! How can they do that when there is an OC involved? These people are doing what they need to do to try to save their marriages, which have been around a he!! of a lot longer than most, if not all, of these OC, and have much more at stake(ie. children who were born IN the marriage!!) Just a suggestion, you need to do a little more research on this board before making general statements like that. Every time you say something like that, you are just jamming your foot down your throat, cause there is no truth in that statement!!!!!<P>As Carriemom stated on another thread "You are the weakest links--Good-bye--Now you may take the walk of shame!!!"

I guess I am not on the email list, but I do not want to lose contact with any of you. You are all so helpful to me, since I have chosen to tell noone of the OW/Oc, mainly due to the pain of OC after a 25 year marriage. My relatives, as wonderfully supportive as they are always and would be there for me, would be so disappointed with H that I can not bear it as we muddle ourselves back together. So, I need my contacts with you all, and you have all given me much support and info. I thank you for that, so please keep posting!

Isb, <BR>please dont worry about losing the support group here. We get these flys every now and then if we were to leave it would only give this one what she wants . I dont think anybody is going anywhere. If you want the e mail list send a email to happy and she will send you the information. with love flowerseed

hey guys, i am not saying i want to leave or that anyone else should. i just wanted a place, set up that we can go to when the board gets taken over by these lunatics. i hate to come here and feel like i can't even read a post without someone's rude comment. <P>lsb, i don't have your email or i would surely have included you. if you would like, it is happy_girl_az@yahoo.com<P>i too think that the forum is invaluable, especially when newbies take the time to go back and read the old posts. i just want somewhere to go when the place i come to feel safe is making me feel threatened.<P>very cute flowerseed! LOL!<P>happy_girl<P>