Insomniacs ? Me, me, me ! Actually I am waiting for h to get home. Should be soon now. He works nights, has for most of our 24 years together. Now that son is grown I like to wait for him.

lynton,<BR>For some reason not smoking is making it easier to wake up in the morn. I just woke up 2 hours eailer then I needed to.Got to get hubby up soon. with love flowerseed

Gregg,<P>Actually, it's only 10:40 here. I'm sitting here, with Abbi asleep on my chest, typing away to my hearts content. I'm waiting for her to wake up soon, to get her bedtime feeding before going to bed myself. If she doesn't wake up soon, I will just take her to bed with me. Hubby is gone till Thurs. What fun Also, kids are at a friends house spending the night. Their teachers are STILL on strike here!! Actually, I would like to ask you all to pray that they come to some sort of arrangement soon! The kids have been out of school for almost 2 weeks now! Talk about hurting the kids! Anyway, this is usually the best time for me to do any posting, as Abbi is more soundly asleep, and I don't have to be typing with just one hand <P>Tigger

LW, I have tried to tell you on many occasions we are trying to get our children to met the oc and we have spent close to 2,00.00 to do so. Our battle has been going on for two years this past Jan. Stop generalizing your advise, it does not fly here to all and I am very tired of it. Some want contact others do not, Leave US All Alone, let us live our lives as we choose remember this is America, we have freedom of choice to be involved or not to be. And even though we choose to be and are having problems, it is not the right way just our way, all the people here have their right to their way. But the ow in my case does not have the right to stop contact and she is trying my family has the right to have contact and we do not, so leave us alone to fight our battles ourselves. We see how important it is for our family to have a relationship but I do not push that on anyone else here, why do you try, It will not work and you too will get buried under the house like the wicked witch in the Wizard of OZ. As that is all you are a wicked witch, and you too will leave like all the others who have come here and tried to ruin our happy, safe place, newbies stay and wait it out she will not win they never do. Peace to all that come here for help, Shame to those who have other motives, Gabi

LW, there is a huge difference between challenging someone to think and baiting them into a no-win battle. I use your words to advise you to not only think of YOUR opinions and YOUR agenda, but think of what these folks have had to endure. Until you have walked a mile, hell just a foot would suffice, in their shoes, it would be highly advisable to reserve judgement on a situation that has caused a pain and torment you should pray you never have to suffer. <P>I'm trying to be objective, yet understanding, to what you're saying here because I am the mother of an OC. I can see where some of your statements come from. HOWEVER, you cannot demand that another accept your opinions or perspective simply because you say it's right. And then, to be offensive when those same opinions and perspectives are categorically refused…that's just childish. If you want change to occur, you need to be willing to really see the other side of the coin. Don't turn a blind eye to the hurt these people are suffering simply because it doesn't fit in to your arguments. A good solution is one that encompasses and/or considers the needs of all.<P>For the record, I do not, under any circumstances, expect the BS in my situation to consider my child. He is not her responsibility. He never was. To demand that she consider him when making decisions about HER marriage/family, is ridiculous. She did not have any say-so in the choices that her H and I made. So, is she entitled to be selfish when trying to preserve her marriage/family? ABSOLUTELY! You could expect no less of me if I ever needed to defend my child. I would never set him aside for the needs of another. I believe the same principal applies to a marriage. You don't have to agree with my opinion, but I would expect you to respect it.<BR>

What is so funny is I am not jamming my opinion down anyones throat. I stated my opinion on a subject and you all went over the deep end about it. And I am glad that some of you are pursuing relationships with the OC. And the rest of you don't have to consider the OC, however your husband should, and in my OPINION if he doesn't he is an irresponsible, self centered lousy father.

sense lw is so worried about the other children and their well being why don't she open up a center or daycare and take in as many as she can as one big happy family.

LW, you mentioned the MM who ignores OC is an irresponsibile,self-centered lousy father. Why didn't OW sense this before she conceived OC? If MM was so terrible, why would OW want his child? You confuse me. MM has only an emotional commitment to his W and C, born of his marraige. I will bet most MM have no intention of having OC. It could very well be the wish of OW, but not necessarily the wish of MM. Most MM find OC a nightmare, not by their choice. Birthcontrol is still controlled by the woman. OW can give the OC up for adoption, abortion, etc. What choice does MM have? If he's a "lousy" father to OC, so be it. His W and children of marriage come first. This is only my opinion. ember

Hey, this folder's on fire, someone call 911!!<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

oh gregg, you absolutely crack me up. thanks for being a ray of sunshine here for all of us. laughter is the best medicine and when i read your posts, i always smile.<P>911 is on the way!<P>happy_girl