heavenly and hurtbutcoping, you state more eloquently what I feel -we are all doing the best we can. I think the fact that my husband stayed with us, for us and for him, as all of us at this site have seen with our respective husbands, shows the depth of love they feel for us. In many ways it would have been simpler for me and H had he left us and stayed with OW/Oc. I have asked him repeatedly if we do not make it will he return to OW and he vehemently says no. He does not want a life with her. At times it is painful to me that we have had to go through all this mess for a woman he had no intention of leaving for. In fact, a good friend of mine's husband, interestingly enough, with 2 young kids as mine are, had an affair and left the marriage and they are now getting the divorce. My h actually thinks little of this guy,( although, at least he didn't get woman pregnant!) because he left his own children for this other woman, who also has kids of her own and is on her 3rd marriage which is now under divorce action. My point being, I would have been pained to have been left for another, but understood it if I was so awful H wanted nothing to do with me. The fact is, in some twisted way, he still loved me throughout and feels his life belongs with me, not with OW-his time with her was wrong, misguided, a bizarre crazy time in his life and mine. Now we have to figure out why-heal-and see what our life together can be. I pray for all of you to do the same.

HBC, many of the regular participants on this site have been upset by the situation here. There is a difference between blunt and being abusive - I would say that repeatedly calling people "mean and hateful" because they are not willing to bow to the OW's wishes or not willing to gracefully accept the OC into their lives is abusive rather than blunt. Continuing to bludgeon people with an opinion that is unhelpful to the situation and completely unwelcome is not exactly showing compassion and caring.<P>Some of us from GQII and other forums have been made aware that, despite being BEGGED to go away and leave these women alone here, the individuals have continued to badger them, and we are here to show our support in any way we can.<P>This forum was set up, from what I remember, specifically to provide support for people whose lives have been devastated by infidelity and the children borne of it. It has been expanded by the participation of people who have offered compassionate support and help, and, from what I can tell, has even benefitted from the participation of some women who have had children from an affair of their own. The environment here, as in all MB forums, is supposed to be secure and safe. The recent flurry of posts that are downright abusive of the people for whom this forum was set up is unacceptable to most of us who have been a part of these forums for a long time... and it is certainly unwelcome to the people who have been posting on this particular forum for so long.<P>I didn't come here, read one post, and then go get people to stir up trouble. I came here, read ALL of the posts from the individual in question, and was appalled by her lack of respect for the purpose of this forum. Since it was quite clear that asking her to go away and leave them alone was not effective, since they have already done that countless times on other threads, we decided to take another tack - one that has been helpful for us on other forums here.<P>LW, Yes, I AM directing my post at you - and your cohort as well. And you can sputter about how unappreciated you are, and you can complain about how you have been misjudged and abused. But the fact remains that YOU are the one who has been judgmental and abusive. You are not helping here, and you are not asking anyone for help, either. You've been asked to STOP and have defiantly refused. No one is judging you based on anything other than your words and actions here on this forum. Some of the wisest and LEAST judgmental people in the entire history of this forum have posted suggestions to you and you have ignored the spirit of the messages in favor of accusing others of misjudging you.<P>As I said, I know you will believe once again that you are being persecuted, but I needed to say this.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Once again, Terri, you have summed up the situation very, very well. I was looking at these two in action as the female gender's answer to "Beavis and [censored]". The sophomore class lives! I'm just waiting for the spitwads and wet willies <P>Explaining a perspective is one thing. But rubbing salt on wounds that have yet to heal is cruel. Have you two researched this website? I can only assume that you haven't with the comments I've seen from you thus far. I guess I just wonder what the two of you are doing here. If you want help, great! If you want to respectfully disagree with a point, fine. But belittling people who have already been through enough is crossing the line.<P>The two of you seem to get along famously - find your validation with each other. IM is a wonderful tool - use it. But if you're trying to get your kicks out of other people's misery, go ahead and get lost.

Beavis and [censored]...that is too funny.<P>I just wanted to thank you for the support.<P>Love<P>bw

girls ,Beavis and [censored] he he he Yes that is just how I felt. Another thought was sybil and her ugly twin. with love flowerseed

Hi guys,<P> Flower, you are a sweethart!! To all the MB visitors, god bless you! You all are the best!!<P><BR> God bless you all,<P> <P>------------------<BR>Gregg

Thanks for the positive support.

Concerned1 - Thank you very much for your support and I will work at softening my tone and using more "I" statements.<P>LSB - I guess what puzzles me so much about your situation is you seem so trusting about his intentions. "I" would have a very hard time being that trusting. When my husband cheated on me, "I" guess I was suspicious of everything and had a real hard time believing him and his statements about how he felt about the other woman (women - I found out later). When I found out he cheated with my cousin I was at her door asking questions and then quizing him to see if his story matched. Then I would try and figure out who sounded more logical. I guess I was so torn up over it I just couldn't believe him. And I had to find out from the OW and any other witnesses whether he was telling the truth. Had he done anything I considered "familial", like attending the birth or babtism I would have felt he loved or atleast had feelings. I guess your trust and belief just amazes me. I am such a skeptical person, and I think I got that way because of the cheating. But thank you sincerely for answering.<P>Terri - I am sorry that nothing I say seems to satisfy you. But this was a sincere question and i am sincerely glad that the person I posted it to answered it sincerely.

lsb, I understand exactly where you are coming from with regard to life being easier if H had just up and left. I think that many times myself. Still, I must say that I'm glad that we are sticking the tough course and trying to save the marriage. I know that I am lucky that he has no OC from his affairs...at least that I know of... :roll eyes:<P>Lurking Woman, I am glad that you came back to read the honest answers to your questions. I agree that it's hard to believe what some of us betrayed spouses have gone through in the fight to save our marriages.<P>Have you had a chance read any of the other parts of Marriage Builders? There are a number of steps you can take to try to improve your relationship with your ex-husband. And eventually you might even be able to trust him again. <P>terri, *extends right hand and smiles* Perhaps you don't recognize me? I'm HBC usually from the GQII board? Actually, I haven't been posting for a while, but something told me I should start again...<P>I came over here because of your post asking for help here. So here I am.<P>I absolutely agree that abuse cannot be tolerated in this forum. <P>I also believe that, at least in this particular instance, Lurking Woman had a real question she wanted answered. Unfortunately, she asked it in such a way as to cause consternation, but I think that is part of the learning process.... I can't speak to other instances, but in this case, this is what I believe.<P>I have nothing but respect for you and the other fine people of this board who have gone through so much and are trying to keep marriages together despite the odds.<P>I know that over on GQII both betrayed and wayward spouses have been made to feel welcome. And I know that some scofflaw waywards have been spoken to sharply and I think they are the better for it. <P>Thing is, they weren't told "You are bad. Go away." They were told, "What you are doing is wrong. Here is why we think it is wrong." Some left. Some are working on their marriages.<P>And so I say to any of the OW who may be reading this: Sleeping with another woman's husband is wrong. Look in your hearts and know that this is true. I am sorry if you have babies that were created out of that union. That makes life very difficult for all people. But show those children love and do not put them in the middle of this situation. Let everyone heal.<P>Blessings to all.<BR>HBC

HBC ---- BRAVO----- Well said... thanks for your deep wisdom and LW,,, yes I am amazed at how much people will put up with and if you read some of the other post there are not just women who have WS there are quite a few men posting here and I thought I saw one where the lady got pregnant and then had an abortion ,,, so much sadness,,, LW ,,, there are reasons that you are put on a path and by you being here witnessing others compassion for their spouses this might be for you to work through your issues and know that there is many going through similar experiences ... soften your heart as you have so far and take a deep breath,,, <BR>blessings<BR>C1

WHEN I FOUND OUT WHEN THE OW DUE DATE WAS I TOLD MY H I PERFER THAT HE NOT BE THEIR BECAUSE THAT IS SENDING HER THE WRONG MESSAGE. TO ME SHE WOULD FEEL LIKE SOMETHING IS STILL THEIR BETWEEN THEM AND NOT JUST THE CHILD. NOW IA SK MY H NOT TO GO AND TO THIS DAY H SAID HE DIDNOT BUT YOU KNOW US WOMEN THE TRUST IS NOT THEIR AND I CAN ONLY GO BY WHAT HE TELLS ME.

I felt compelled to respond to this post as well, and I have to say that heavenly body said what I feel best. My H had a one night stand. He found out a few months later that the OW was pregnant and got scared. He VERY ERRONEOUSLY catered to the OW's blackmailing because he didn't know what else to do. He asked her to have an abortion from the very beginning, but as she had been "daddy shopping" and wanted a child quite badly, she refused. He stated from the beginning that he wanted nothing to do with the child, but his actions said the opposite, as he also went to the hospital the day the OC was born and visited a handful of times in 9 months. The OW assumed that my H had changed his mind and wanted to be a part of THEIR lives. He was just plain stupid. He does not want anything to do with the OC and has said so over and over, but now the OW has "acquired feelings" for my H and has become very unreasonable and threatening in her behavior.(Literally think, "Fatal Attraction", we just haven't reached the rabbit part yet!) My H is very remorseful, but that does not mean that I trust that this won't happen again. Of course he says it won't, and I want desperately to believe him...and hopefully someday I will have a reason to. I know that he recongnizes the pain that he has caused. He sees it in our children's faces and my face everyday. He has to deal with it constantly when he feels the tension within other family members who don't know what to do or say. My H was also afraid of what the OW would inflict upon us emotionally and financially if he didn't cater to her emotional needs and listen to her every whine and *****, before I knew what had happened. As I said, my H's situation with the OW is almost IDENTICAL to what heavenlybody described above on page 2!!! I had to double check to make sure I didn't write that one myself! In the words of my H, the OC is a business transaction....ONLY. He feels that the OC is a mistake, not a child born out of love between two people. Not everyone agrees with that decision and that viewpoint, but it is his/our decision and it's the only one I think I can live with. <P>Having said that, I respect the individual decisions of each and every person on here. We all have to deal with this in the only way we each know how...and just hope that there are other's out there who can love us and support us, even if they don't agree with us.<P>On a personal note, this whole thing is taking it's toll on me again this week. I suspect that I have a bleeding ulcer, as there is a situation occuring within me that doesn't seem right. I am trying to just find stress relief mechanisms to cure what ails me....does anyone know of a good, cheap (I'm on a budget now) all day spa that can make all of this go away for even a day??? Oh well, it was a thought...<P>Best wishes to you all,<BR>FightingIrish