There has got to be a way to do something about the child support laws<BR>i looked up my states on the internet and they are from 93<BR>|I want petitions I want letters <BR>but i dont know where to start?<BR>Any suggestions??<P>Credit for children being raised by the parent is a mere 9. somehting percent of gross income taken off of the gross income <BR>whereas cs =like 30+ percent of gross income?????<BR>What the....????<BR>What we pay for child care and insurance comes off the gross income whereas the oc childcare and insurance amount get added on to the chart's standard amount of cs??<P>Why dont thye see how stupid and unfair <P>and this doesn't even concern only us but people in second marriages, etc.<P>Do the children who have a bio parent living with them get punished financially because of it?/<BR>does the $$$ make it up to the oc???<P>Theres got to be something we can do !!!!!!<BR>i read so many people here having trouble keeping houses everything turned on<BR>and i know that is how we will be when we start to pay<BR>30% of gross??? 9% for the children WE have to feed clothe and put a roof over???<P>i would probably be better off financially to take MY child support and go on my own<P>But I have to continue to be punished, not only with emotional HELL but financailly as well<BR>for trying to work out my marriage?????????<P><BR>ANY IDEAS?????WHAT CAN WE DO?????????<P>WHERE ARE OUR CHILDRENS RIGHTS????????????????<P><BR>

Dear NSB,<BR>I am all for action. Here is a letter I wrote to our state rep regarding unfair cs/custody guidelines. Maybe you can use that as a starting point somehow. I got a wonderful response to the letter, personally written by the rep. I've posted this before, but that was before your time here. let me know what you think.<P><BR>Dear Honorable **************,<BR>I am writing you today regarding a very painful and difficult situation that involves my family’s well being. Please bear with me while I provide some essential background information:<P>I am a twenty-eight year old teacher, currently unemployed due in part to downsizing at the ************* where I taught alternative education classes to the residents. I have been married for almost nine years and have fours sons, whose ages range from 4 months to 8 years old. Roughly four years ago, during a brief separation, my husband had an affair with another woman. Sometime shortly after my husband and I reconciled, the woman announced that she was pregnant. After the baby was born, DNA tests proved that it was indeed my husband’s child. I know that my husband has a financial responsibility to support this child, but the state guidelines seem to be extremely biased against those of us in this unique situation.<P>The illegitimate child gets the first, and largest, percentage of my husband’s paycheck, due to the fact that it is the only child being raised outside of our home. The fact that he has a wife and four children to support does not seem to count for much at all. Under state guidelines, this illegitimate child gets primary attention, despite the fact that two of our four children were born before she was. I know that the law exists in this way to provide protection, at least in theory, to the children of a first marriage after the parents have divorced and second families are begun. But in our case, my marriage preceded the birth of the other child and remains intact today. The only possible way that I could ensure that my children get their “fair share” would be to file for divorce, and even then the support I would be entitled to would be a much smaller percentage of my husband’s income, with our portion being calculated AFTER the other woman’s share has already been taken. <P>Under Pennsylvania guidelines, my husband is also responsible for paying for child care expenses so that the mother can work. Because that woman has chosen an extremely expensive daycare, he has to pay more for one child’s care than we paid our babysitter to watch all three of our children when I was working full time. At the same time that this woman is reaping the prime benefits (all of it untaxed, mind you) of my husband’s labor, we will probably be forced to apply for food stamps. I ask you, shouldn’t the law declare the children of our marriage to be my husband’s primary obligation? <P>I feel that in these United States, the sanctity of the marriage should be upheld, not challenged by guidelines that unwittingly protect the participant of an adulterous relationship. To be honest, I feel very much as if this woman stole something very precious from me, and now my children and I must pay for it. <P>Secondly, I know that my husband was equally responsible for participating in the affair itself, but this woman CHOSE to become involved with a married man, she CHOSE to become pregnant by a man she knew was married, she CHOSE to bear the child and raise it (instead of looking at adoption). Women today who choose to become impregnated via sperm donation are obligated to support the child on their own, because they made a conscious decision to have a child without the cooperation and security of a full-time marital partner. This woman also knew full well the consequences of her decisions, yet is in no way held accountable for them. In fact the state laws seem to reward her for selfishness and lack of foresight, while I, who chose to get married and salvage the marriage despite great obstacles, am punished for my decision.<P>At the same time, there is a remarkable legal bias against the fathers of illegitimate children. In all matters regarding this child’s care, my husband has had a very limited ability to choose. He had no say as to whether the pregnancy should be terminated (I am against abortion, but the argument stands). He had no means of insisting that the child be put up for adoption. He had no way of maintaining that the child be raised within our family in our home. (I would have been delighted to take in this child and raise it as our own.) Today, he has no choice but to sue in order to even receive visitation. We are currently involved in what will surely be a long, drawn-out, and expensive battle to get visitation of the child. My husband and I are good people – I have made a career out of working with troubled children, and we both were featured in Guideposts magazine a few months ago – but we will have to prove that to a court before we can visit the child, while the mother of the child must prove nothing at all. If the father of a child is held responsible for the financial upkeep of the child, why is he granted no inherent rights as to the upbringing of the child?<P>Mr. Baker, I ask that you review the Pennsylvania child support and custody laws. I feel that they have become antiquated and no longer reflect societal needs. A change in law that takes into consideration circumstances such as ours is sorely needed. Sir, I implore you to act on our behalf.<P>Thank you for your time and consideration.<BR>Sincerely,<BR>

It is insane.. I agree. But the laws are written under the presumption that one of two scenerios are in play.<P>1) that CS is being awarded to children of a marriage and the lifestyle of those children should not be diminished due to divorce<P>or<P>2) that CS is awared to children out-of-wedlock. These children are specifically not to be punished by CS laws due to the status of their parents.<P>There is NO concession to the thought that CS is being awarded to a child in first consideration and that older children of a marriage have not already been covered by CS (I know this statement is hard to follow). Basically, it is an oversite in CS laws. And I think lawmakers really do not want to address it.<P>I have written letters to all sorts of folks in political areas and in Family Services about this situation. The only way my children get considered for financial support and a specific portion of their fathers income is if we divorce. <P>How pro-family is all of that? But of you point this out all you get is someone then making a statement like "well your H should not have put you in this position". It all comes back somehow on BS and implication that she should either just bite her tounge if she chooses to stay married to H, or divorce him. Again... just insane. <P>Take care... Carolyn

Dear nbs,<BR>I also need to remind you that you may want to look into a "faux" separation or divorce. That way, you collect child support and spousal support, which would almost definitely reduce ow's take. Hard thing to contemplate, I know. But the laws do not protect us or our children. We must do it ourselves any way we can. By going this route, more of your h's money comes right back to your household.<BR>Let me know if you want/need more details about this.<BR>cd

We are divorced !!!<BR>we were getting divorced when this happened<BR>the took my cs and deducted it from his gross!!<BR>and she ended up getting MORE than i was <BR>and at the time mine was figured he made more money!!!!<P>ill just lay it out....<BR>he switched jobs and is only making $10 an hour<BR>She makes $9<BR>He was ordered to pay me $75 aweek at our divorce<BR>they take that off of the 400<BR>making his gross 325. <BR>the chart says like $110 a week standard divided between the two of them<BR>then they add in $65 a week child care and want to add to that what she pays in insurance <BR>but what he pays for insurance on our child comes off of his gross<BR>IF he covers her child (which i dont really want to see his anme on ins. cards or have to deal with her) anyway that would come off of the support<BR>for one dependant it is a signifigant amount but for two it is only 3 dollars more<BR>so i asked that lawyer WHY does our child have to be the first and that one the 3$ second ??? why cant we take the $20 off for that kid???and save us by using the extra $3 to cover our child<BR>but no the first born has to be the expensive one<BR>so i could cover our child on my insurance but it would cost just as much!!!$37 every two weeks<P><BR>Where are the rights of fathers??? The ones who get caught in this????<BR>whther from an A or illegitimate??<BR>many girls want babies and lie about bc<BR>im scared that i have sons <BR>condoms not 100% effective <BR>need pills for guys which by the way there is one but the gov wont market it as such<BR>the WOMEN get to choose to keep, abort, adopt out the child<BR>does it not matter what the dad wants only the women??????<BR>he has to pay according to HER wishes???<BR>And what about custody >>>>><BR>we cant get the child unless we can prove her unfit<BR>If this is so much his child too (at least financially)<BR>Why can t we have a fair chance to raise it?/<BR>we have a family two parent, house, dont send our kids to daycare 10 hours a day 5 days a week <BR>I work a schedule where we dont have to use it so much <P>This child lives in a one bedroom upstairs apt. goes to sitter every day 730 to 530<P>So anyway the point was .....<BR>his checks will end up being less than $200 a week after taxes cs and insurance<BR>we have a tuck pymt. car paymt. $600 mortgage which is just in his name <BR>No bank would allow him that kind of payment now with this income<BR>i think we will have to move <BR>but there is nothing cheaper<P>And if we didn;'t work out and he had to pay me again or as he is as they are figuring then he owuld have barely over $100 left a week.<P>We want to get remarried but now i dont know that we will ever be able to<BR>shed probably take us back for more <BR>and since she was on medicaid all her litigation is free through the state while we pay lawyer $200 fee and $125 an hour just to get screwed the least amount possible

Carolyn what did you hear back from them???<BR>this is so unfair <BR>why does it ALL have to be so HARD????????

I heard nothing back. Zero from any of them. <P>I am almost ready to write Oprah. Talk shows may be the only source of justice. At least they would pretend to be interested. The legal & political system isn't interested at all.<P>When I talked to my lawyer he in as much told me so also. I then asked about what recourse I had for my children to sue OW for the wreckless actions she has taken to harm my family. Again, he said none. Since my H was a "willing participant" that I had no action. <P>And men have no reproductive rights, other than to get vasectomy or wear a condom. I have two sons and I do fear what the world will be like when they are old enough to date and enter a relationship with a woman. If a man used a condom and discards it, he better make sure that a woman didn't pick it up and use it for artificial insemination. He is again held responsible as the "bio-father" of that child. <P>Laws need to change. Carolyn

Dear nsb,<BR>I was a little confused about the figures in your repply - probably my fault because I am a little sleep deprived today. <P>Anyway, just wanted to point out to you that by law, h can't be losing more than 55% of his net pay to child support. So if your support plus her support adds up to more than that percentage of his net pay, he needs to file for modification of her cs order, which should reduce her amount. Also, you may want to consider seeking a modification to increase YOUR amount. If you can get an increase, it might mean he can get hers decreased to compensate.<P>Can you give the figures again in a different way, like this perhaps:<P>1. H's net pay (his pay minus state, fed. and local taxes):<P>2. The amount he pays to you for cs:<P>3. The amount he pays to ow for cs:<P>4. The amount he has left over when both of you are paid:<P>That might make it easier on my poor little brain.<BR>cd

Sorry my brain runs faster than i can type<BR>ok <BR>well first, they are going on GROSS income<BR>1. which came to $400<BR>yesterdays check was 316 i guess<BR>ordered to pay me $75 <BR>2. The litigation is not finished with her yet<BR>but htye had figured to pay her like $80 a week <BR>plus for the back support extra $10 <BR>the back support they want 96$ a week<BR>whe his insurance goes into effect that will be another <BR>171 a month for just our child and my h<BR>I'll let you do the math im brain dead<P>is the 55% rule in every state?<BR>lets see <BR>316 x 55%=174<BR>-75<BR>-21 (roughly what weekly insurance for our son alone)<BR>=220<BR>-80<BR>-10 back support<BR>=130

dear nsb - I think the 55% is a federal law, but I'm not certain. Maybe bystander knows.<P>OK, this is the way I figure it.<P>Your h's net pay is 316 per week<BR> 55% of that is 174.<P>Subtracting your 75 per week in support, that leaves $91.00 left over. Subtract from that the 21 per week for insurance, that leaves just 70 dollars per week legally available for ow. Subtract from that the extra 3 bucks per week, that's 67 dollars total per week to go to ow. Legally they CANNOT take more than that.<P>You REALLY need to talk to your lawyer about this. The domestic relations will NOT automatically enforce the 55% rule. Your H has to figure it out and file for modification on his own. <P>If I am correct, if your h files for modification because of the 55% rule, and gets it, ow will owe HIM money (because of overpayment).<P>Good luck,<BR>cd<p>[This message has been edited by cdcollins (edited April 20, 2001).]

im writing to the lawyer right now!!!!!!<P><BR>|Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!

Dear NSB,<BR>what I would do if I was you is have your h go to domestic relations IMMEDIATELY and file for modification. Under "reason for modification" he needs to write "Total amount of support is more than 55% of my net pay." The reason I think you should do this RIGHT AWAY is because modification is retroactive to the date filed. So it will go back to the day he has filed. Don't waste any time doing that.<BR>with love,<BR>cd

Our support is not yet ordered<BR>they threw her insurance money in there at the last minute and wanted that reimbursed<BR>which i know she was on medicaid and i thought babies were for the first year too<BR>anyway we were supposed to find out about h's insurance<BR>so it was postponed<BR>been 3 weeks haven't heard from our lawyer or hers<P>keeping my fingers crossed that she will drop it (everyone too please want to pray for it but dont know if thats tooselfish to pray for)<BR>she said she was goign to the night before court when i finaly talked my h into calling her when he said if he has to pay then HE AND I would be a part of its life (not sure we will though) then she said "when i see fit" and we said "no when the judge sees fit" she was like "fine i'll just call my lawyer at home and drop it all" then there she was at court in the morning want more for insurance<BR>i really dont think she realizes what reasonable visitation entails<BR>she said flat out first words out of her mouth in that phone conversation first words in a over year to either of us ......."I WANT YOUR MONEY" <p>[This message has been edited by never_be_same (edited April 20, 2001).]

Thought about talk shows (not springer)<BR>but too embarrassed <BR>Some people haven't any idea and i feel so embarrassed <BR>esp after seeing ow <BR>anyway id have to go in disguise