Jess,<BR>I am so sorry for your pain. I must tell you that I think you have a very big heart for being willing to take the child into your home. I cannot bring myself to be accepting of any aspect of this situation. The only thing that is keeping me going right now is the fact that I love MY two kids and I love my JERK of a H. Amen to those of you who recognized that the BW and Children are being PUNISHED for staying....punished by the OW, the OC, and the LAW! Someone in Colorado, HEAR MY CRIES!!!! God Bless you, Jess...<P>~Irish

I agree wholeheartedly with Irish<BR>This sucks so bad it hurts so much every day<BR>I truly dont understand WHY these women want to put their children through this aand OUR children<BR>All the talk about welfare reform <BR>i think child support reform should be next!!!!!<BR>Im going to try writing state reps i was all fired up but it has been done by others here without avail. but i still have to try<BR>there is nothing to protect OUR children, our families<P>Why cant they just make an average of the cost of things that are actually needed<BR>for the child.....diapers, childcare, etc. and split that 50-50???????<P>This shared income thing is crazy!!!!and unfair<P><BR>

Well, my H's name is not on the BC (at least to our knowledge). Until she was a year old nobody knew who the father was. We have an appointment to speak with a lawyer tomorrow. I'll let ya'll know what he says. BTW-what exactly is a retainer? Do we pay it before they will do anything?

Jessry,<P>Why are they taking almost half of your H pay? Are the child's expenses that much? How much does the mother make?<BR>The the law works in our state, they combine both incomes, figure expenses and whatever it totals to, the man will pay 65%.<P>That seems pretty high for one child....I admit I haven't been up to date on xow's employement situation, but I can't believe she makes that much, nor can I believe the child's expenses are warrant this cs award.<BR>????

It's a fee you pay in order to retain the attorney's services. It's usually payable up front. Some attorney's will allow you to pay it in installments.<P>Jessry, to touch on the other topic (custody), if a CS award has been made, your husband must have completed a declaration of paternity. If he did, your H is legally recognized as the father. Without a custody order, he could still take the child and file for custody.

Oh, yeah! I almost forgot. My H got DEMOTED yesterday at work and lost his 10 hours overtime he was getting every week. I told his boss "Thanks alot! Why couldn't you have done this last week?". So, now he is making ALOT less than he was. He is actually making less than me and I just went back to work 3 weeks ago and he's been with his work since they opened. UGHHH

You should be able to get a reduction based on his change in pay?<P>When it rains it pours... so sorry.

Jessry,<P>I hope the appointment with your lawyer went well.<P>I have a few suggestions for you.<P>First, document everything you posted here. You will need it later. Write down everything, even if it seems unnecessary now, it won't be later.<P>Second, visit this site: <A HREF="http://www.deltabravo.net/custody" TARGET=_blank>www.deltabravo.net/custody</A> <BR>This is a father's rights site which provides free advice, free forms and a lot of support. Read everything on the site and post in one of the forums. The people there are very helpful.<P>Third, think about calling CYS. What you posted above screams of neglect. Neglect IS punishable by law and does make a huge impact in custody cases. There are all kinds of neglect. One is undernourishment, another is abandonment, and another is emotional neglect. There are many other forms as well, and all will be checked by CYS. They will check the baby, see who he/she is living with, check it's physical problems, medical reports, etc. <P>Fourth, TRY to keep some balance with the grandparents, as much as possible, but DO NOT give them any information about what you are doing or how you feel. Pretend if you have to. <P>Fifth, refile for change in support payments based on your H's new pay. Tell them you want verification the baby is in a registered daycare center. You want the number, address, the head person's name, etc. You want to be added to the "pickup" list at the daycare center (even if you don't want to do the pick up - still get BOTH of your names listed). <P>Sixth, find out the third party visitation rights in your state. For now, what you can do is apply for visitation for your H and then for yourself. This way, you'll have repoire with the baby before you go into court for custody. Plus, you'll provide a better environment for the baby too and be able to keep an eye on the neglect issue. <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Casualty#24389 (edited April 26, 2001).]

Wow Casualty! You sure have done your homework!! We went to the lawer yesterday. He wants $1000 retainer up front. UGH! I called my dad (who I have never asked for anything from) and asked him to borrow it. He said he'd call me back later. Surprise, no call. The lawyer said we have 3 options, disappear (which MY dad did), do it ourselves, or hire a lawyer. And he said that H has no parental rights what-so-ever towards OC. We have to ASK OW if we can see her. What a load of crap! And he said that it doesn't matter who OC is living with , we still have to pay OW CS. AND the grandma CAN leave the state with her. H can do nothing about it. This is all driving me crazy.

I would say that's a pretty BAD lawyer. Coming from the other side, I can tell you that, as the legal father, your H DOES have rights and grandma does NOT, unless she was awarded custody, and even then he would be entitled to visitation. The OW is NOT entitled to CS if the child is not in her care. However, you would have to file a motion to modify the order and prove that the OW does not have the child. The best way to do that would be to have the child yourselves.

I agree with obratti. That advice STINKS! I don't know CO law but worth getting second or even third opinion. If your H had DNA done (legal father) I see no reason why he cannot have the child when the mother doesn't have physical custody!

So what this lawyer is saying that your DH pays cs but has no rights to child? That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard, of course he has rights! I would turn him in to the Bar association for doling out such crap! <P>My ex and I were in an 8 year relationship and had 1 son who is now 7. We just went to court last week and I was able to get sole custody, thank God. But I ran to court as fast as I could when I was told by my lawyer that anytime my ex felt like not returning our son to me after a visit, he didn't have to! He wouldn't have to because neither one of us had custody. I would then have to retain a lawyer and we would have to go to court which would take months. In the meantime he would have our son and not be forced to give him back at all, no visits, nothing. Thank goodness he never knew that.<P>That lawyer gave you bad advice, he totally misled you. <P>If I am remembering right if no one has legal custody yet, I was told one time that a parent could go to the sitters, grandparents, or whomever was watching the child and request that they hand the child over and there was nothing they could do about it. I would do this and then immediately file for an emergency custody order (ex parte hearing)the same day, have a good attorney ready with the paperwork to meet you at the courthouse. Take care of the cs situation once those papers are in place. Once the child has been settled and you can prove her unfit and that you can provide a stable home, it would be hard for her to regain custody, the burden of proof is now on her to prove that you and DH are not what is best for child. And DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT and don't let her be alone with child until court, she could turn around and do the same thing.<P>Ohbratti is making alot of sense, listen to her.<P>Keep up the good fight.<P>All you ladies and gentlemen are wonderful here!<P>Melissa

I apologize for sticking my nose in here, I am just a lurker and have been for quit some time, I just feel for all of you. I tell my DH about you all, what happened to someone, a new member, everything. I cry because I feel so bad, my DH thinks I am nuts for caring about what happens to people I don't even know, but I can't help it, you all have grabbed my heart. I read your lives everyday. <P>So I have no idea the depths of your pain, I have never been there, so I would understand if you all would prefer me to keep my opinions to myself. <P>Melissa

The lawyer said that since H and OW were not married and H has not established any parental rights that he has none. I know, I questioned him about that. I still have no idea how we are going to come up with all the money for the retainer. My dad still hasn't called me back with an answer. We only have 10 days from whenever the CS order goes in to file for a modification. And H is being so lazy. I'm really beginning to get annoyed with him. I didn't have sex with OW, he did. But I have to be the responsible one and do everything. He can't even remember to call the court house and ask if the order has been put in. And our first "installment" is due on the 15th. It's a whole 2 week paycheck. I asked him if it was that good that he had to make payments on it.

My ex and I were never married either, neither one of us had any more rights than the other. We had to go to court to establish anything for both of us.<P>She has no more rights than he does at this point. Besides paternity has already been established, your DH has been court ordered to pay cs. Somewhere in those papers is says he is the father. Did they not touch on any visitation or anything else besides cs when he went to court?<P>Talk to a new lawyer, the other is giving you bad advice. <P>Melissa

Ditto mshermi! I think paying child support constitutes some "parental rights"!!! Where there are parental responsibilities, there are rights, right?! Legally they cannot keep a man away from his child unless there is proof of abuse and even then they often have rights. That lawyer makes no sense to me.<P>Was conflict avoidance a part of your H's affair?? (you can read about 5 types of affairs at <A HREF="http://www.affairs-help.com)" TARGET=_blank>www.affairs-help.com)</A> If that is a problem with him, perhaps you should make him aware of it and the fact avoiding problems doesn't help! Conflict was a part of my H's and while he's trying to be better, what your H is doing sounds so much like mine---would prefer to pretend it's going away or something. Yes, it's frustrating! Keep communication and joint agreement going with your H!<P>Prayers for you,<BR>J

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mshermi:<BR><B>My ex and I were never married either, neither one of us had any more rights than the other. We had to go to court to establish anything for both of us.<P>She has no more rights than he does at this point. Besides paternity has already been established, your DH has been court ordered to pay cs. Somewhere in those papers is says he is the father. Did they not touch on any visitation or anything else besides cs when he went to court?<BR> In PA cs and custody/visitation are two completely seperate issuess, a women can not deny visiatation because she isn't getting the support and a man can not just have visiatation because he pays support. The father has rights whether visitation or custody but he really should establish them through the courts intill that time nobody has legal custody of the child. who ever the child is with has physical custody.<BR>Talk to a new lawyer, the other is giving you bad advice. <P>Melissa</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

I have done my homework only because it makes me feel more secure in knowing. Even if it's a false security, it works. <P>First, I urge you to get another attorney as the others have said. His claim of paternity doesn't make any sense. Have you had a DNA test? If you haven't, petition the court to get one done. I see from your first post you have to pay $400 towards it. If the results came back as your H listed as the father, then paternity has been established. Once paternity is established, he has FATHERS rights available to him in every single state. However, you have to find out what the laws are in your state. Some grant more, some less. I don't know what state you live in, but if you let me know I will look up whatever laws are available listed on line for your state. <P>I also suggest again you visit the link I provided in my last post. There is a forum for questions concerning custody, support, visitation, etc. It is an extremely helpful site with much information, FREE forms and instructions on how to file the forms correctly without an attorney. They also list attorneys everywhere, attorneys who focus on these types of cases and each attorney is rated so you know what you're paying for. <P>There is also a book called "Unmarried Parental Rights" and is available from Amazon at: <BR> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D1570713995/familylawadvisorA/103-9773036-4212654" TARGET=_blank>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D1570713995/familylawadvisorA/103-9773036-4212654</A> <P>The book includes information for all states, free forms and instructions and legal advice. <P>Since I don't know what state you are in, I don't know what the third party rights are in your state and how they reflect on the grandmother taking the baby out of state. However, I know she cannot do this without filing third party rights first. As a step-parent, this third party law may apply to you too, providing they don't already have step-parent rights in your state. Again, I don't know your state so I can only tell you what's available over all in some states.<P>Your H has rights. He can go pick up the baby with a police escort or call the local children's center and ask for third party intervention if it gets bad. <P>Seek another attorney and get another opinion. Call your local bar association or look for a new attorney in the link I provided. <P>I understand how angry this can make a person who seems to shoulder the burden alone. Your H should take a major part. For whatever reason, he isn't. However, they way I look at it is this influences not only my future, but also my children's future and I'll be damned if I let another decision go by without my taking a major part in the decision process. It makes me angry too.

Well, today was the cut off date to file for rehearing. We couldn't come up with $1000 retainer fee, so I have no idea what we are going to do. I guess just dissapear. As to the getting another opinion, we had to pay $50 for the last one and didn't have any more $ for another one. Does it ever get any better?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jessry:<BR><B>Well, today was the cut off date to file for rehearing. We couldn't come up with $1000 retainer fee, so I have no idea what we are going to do. I guess just dissapear. As to the getting another opinion, we had to pay $50 for the last one and didn't have any more $ for another one. Does it ever get any better?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Do not just disapear, if you and your husband ever want any kind of life together you can't do that. If support has been established the courts have the ss numbers they need to track you in new jobs, finance applications. You do not want to Hide" and "run" for the rest of your life especially YOU. This is not your mistake do not help you Dh also become a fugitive. Try and stay stronge and decide if your marriage can survive staying together if so stay and fight don't run. In time things have got to get better.<P>