Posted by cardinal {Im sorry but I dont quite understand...I think if a man makes a baby then he should FEEL something. I mean it should not matter what the circumstances are. Those OC are children, little lives that will develope into adults. They have every right in the world to know their fathers. Especially if that is what the fathers feel. I would be ashamed of myself and my H ( who may very well become a father to OC) if he choice not to be a part of the childs life!!!I would and could never ask him not to know his child. Please dont get me wrong i HATE the idea that one day H and I will have to explain to our son, that hes got a younger silbling. But I'd HATE it even more if son ever found out i asked H to choice or that H was nothing more than a check to OC. I'm soory thats how i feel. Granted Im not in your shoes and pray i wont be. I think if i decide to remain with H i should take all his sins and baggage. Im not saying i will love the OC if it happens but that poor child didnt ask to be short changed. People make mistakes and should own up to them...Please understand thats just how i feel. Of course it may change tommorow! Still absobing my shock. Good Luck} <P>cardinal2000,There are ladies here that feel as you do and they are involved with oc. We all work together to help each other involved or not. Since lurking showed up with her RAM ROD the ladies that do have involvement with oc have been drove away Zebra, gabi, they would be good for you.There are alot more also. Its to bad because even though we have no contact with oc just listening to there stories has softened even my heart towards oc. Then you get people like lurking that just seem to mess everything up. Her idea was that she was upset about the unwanted oc and all she managed to do was drive all those away that were the ones that were trying to do what she wanted and have oc in there lives . Hopefully soon we can get back to healing and try to figure out how to ease some of the pain in this messed up world. with love flowerseed <P>

I'm here! I haven't been driven completly away. Just not as active as I used to be. Don't feel like sparing with the undesireables!<P>Let's discuss this OC issue though. Yes I agree that child is "innocent", but that is not why I agree to support my husband's choice of involvement.<BR> <BR>I agreed because I don't ever want the burden of knowing that I denied a child their knowing their parent. I don't want my husband resenting me when the child comes knocking on his door at 16 wanting to know "what's wrong with me why didn't you love me?" I don't want to find out one day that the OW was abusing this child and had my H been involved we could have saved that "innocent" victim. I don't want my children asking me why I denied them a blood sister. <P>I refuse to have these burdens on my shoulders. If my husband chooses to put them on his.... that's his choice. But I will have a clean conscious.<P>The result of his indiscretion is his to deal with as he chooses. As his wife (since I've chosen to stay) is to support him in decisions he makes regarding his offspring, illegitimate or not. <P>What I do ask in return for my support? I ask that he respect my feelings and wishes regarding OW. That he understand I may not love this child right away. That he understand I will have moments of anger, sadness, resentment all because I have a constant reminder of his infidelity present, and he not hold those moments against me. I ask that he love me, and nurture our relationship and always, above all else, put our family first if a choice has to be made.<P>I'm happy to report... it's been rocky, but so far so good!<P>Now understand, this doesn't work for everyone. I have a not so bright OW who doesn't have a clue that she's being underpaid (in the eyes of the law) for the fruit of her womb. I have a husband who wants to do right and make our marriage better... and who thinks that OW is discusting and can't figure out what he was thinking. <P>And, most important, I have the will inside of me to salvage my marriage and put it first in my life... regardless of ANYTHING & EVERYTHING outside. If we are strong inside, the winds of hell can whip at our door and it'll still be cool in my house!<P>(eh, not to shaby for a bi**h that's been away from posting lately) LOL<P>------------------<BR>Zebra Baby ...<P>Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.<p>[This message has been edited by zebrababy (edited April 21, 2001).]

Zebra okay you were right when you said that you would inspire me... Thanks this post. It was beautifully written and made me do alot of thinking. Flowerseed..... Thank you for bringing my situation with the oc up to the attention of those that you felt needed to beware that there are people like Zebra and I who are doing what we feel is our way , but how we do not think it is our way or the highway. Another member that should be mentioned is CD, she and I unlike Zebra are not so lucky, in that we are having to deal with the legal system to get any contact with the child. Zebra is lucky in the fact that her ow does not know how much $ she could be getting and I just hope that no one enlightens her......My story as is CD is too long and detailed to describe now, our history and the stress of court and lawyers can be read about in past posts, I am very tired or I would go into detail now. Hopefully at a later time, the lukers have given me the creepies and I have stayed away, I hope that in returning in the near future my pain and experiences can help others as others have given me strentgh. I will say as I posted to Jessry earlier today, just do what your heart tells you, in regard to the oc, that is what I have decided to do. The ow is fighting us for no contact and we are holding ground. Someday the truth will come out for all to see, one can only do what one feels he can live with and should not be asked to do more. I am doing what I feel I can live with and I hope the best for all my friends here. Peace and love to all, Gabi1116

Hey guys let's put some of the worthy threads on fire, burn baby burn. Call 911 when you see a thread worth lighting up. I remember in the not so distant past we all could really getting the good ones to burn. Gabi1116

Your right Gabbi, burn baby burn. Lets all get back to what it is we do best. Help those that have their hand out! And keep supporting and being a kind ear to all those that have been here through thick and thin.<P>now, group hug damnit.<P><P>------------------<BR>Zebra Baby ...<P>Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

to the top, let's not post to the crazies and read the important stuff. Gabi1116

You ladies are truly incredible. My hat is off to you ... and I just need you to know that there are people working on helping out with the crazies situation.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Dear Zebra and Gabi,<P>You two are incredible. Zebra you have put into words the exact things that my H and I have discussed and decided. This situation tears at our hearts on a daily basis and it is unavoidable that sometimes the anger and the pain seeps in to make us sad. My marriage is doing great, but there are still those times when it just hits me and I cry for no good reason at all.<P>But, if you can communicate to your H that this is normal and it is not something that you are doing to hurt him or get back at him, then it can have the effect of making him much more attentive and loving during those times when your spirits start to sag.<P>And Gabi, to be able to summon the courage to fight for visitation of a child born in such a situation -- I never had the courage to do such a thing although I agree that it is probably the best situation. <P>For myself, in the past I could never stand contact with the OC. But recent discussions that have taken place between my H and I that have set us on a brand new path have made me modify my position. Although I cannot be a part of the child's life, I trust my H enough to deal with the OC as he sees fit. I have told him that if he chooses to see the OC, I would not object.<P>But, for a multitude of reasons, too numerous to go into here although many of the long-time posters already know, the OC represents much more pain that usual in these situations and I cannot bear to have that reminder in my life.<P>You guys are terrific and you know that I wish you all the best in building your new families. Maybe one day I will change my mind again but, for now, I think I have finally found the solution that is right for me for today.<P>love,<BR>heavenly

"...the lukers have given me the creepies and I have stayed away..."<P>Take heart...I have been 'lurking' since about july 2000 and is was LW that brougt me out!!! <P>See, I was intimidated by the fact that our private story could be on the net to be seen, someone we know happens to be surfing and makes the connection...I know paraniod...Hubby and I really believe in privacy, that our business is our business, so posting about something like this is a little daunting.<P>Not all lurkers are cruel, or are getting their kicks like this is Springer on line or something (those talkshows are a real petpeeve for me)...some are reading and really gaining alot from your courage in just posting, and finding answers to troubling questions seeing different point-of-views, etc., <P>To be honest, even though I haven't been posting, this board has helped me so much in recovering. Just take heart that when you have shared your wisdom (all of you!) you have probably helped many more than have the guts to reply.<BR>

dumbstruck, i don't think when we have referred to lurkers we meant lurkers who are in situations like this or similar and just don't feel ready to post. it is the lurker whose name includes the word lurking, and a few others here only to cause grief. <P>i am all for lurking, some people are just not ready to post. and reading and lurking is very therapeutic. so lurk away, but post too! most people who aren't in this situation don't have time to be lurking around in search of people in pain. unless they have an agenda or are just plain evil.<P>so feel free to lurk, and post as well! <P>happy_girl

May I just say that I think you guys are awesome????<P>I am a "visitor" from GQII and am fortunate in that, to the best of my knowledge, none of my H's indescretions have yielded a child. I don't know how I would deal with that; the affairs have about killed me.<P>What I do know that I would do is come back to this board and hope to gain some insight from such thoughtful women as you all.<P>Thanks for sharing your lives with me.<BR>--HBC

Good Im so so gald no one took what i said out of contents, I mean you cant question how one feels. I was just so concerned about upsetting one of you. I totaaly agree with Zebra. I dont think its a question of how often a fahter sees child but how the fahter connects with child. I know many people who came from divorce including my H who only saw dad ever other weekend. And they feel very connected to their dads. Becuz dads were available and cared for them. I could never think to take that away from a child. My father and mother are still togeather...yeah 30 years! And i dodnt think im as close to my father who was in the house. As my H is to his father. Children are scared from divorce but if parents remain in their childrens lives and continue to be available the children can be happy. This is what i think fathers who want to can give to the Other Child. As some of you may know OW is pregnant. If this is true and it is H althought he swears it is not, im still thinking i want out of the marriage. But i really ope H has a relationship with his BABY. Thanks everyone for being cool....

I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. THE REASON WHY I AGREED TO BE IN OC LIFE WITH H IS BECAUSE THE CHILD IS INNOCENT AND IF I AM GOING TO WORK ON MARRIAGE AND H WANT TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH OC THEN I WOULD HAVE TO BE INVOLVED. IN MOST CASES IF YOU SAY NO THE H WOULD SNEAK AND DO IT ANYWAY AND THAT WOULD LEAD TO OTHER THINGS. ME AND MY H DECIDED THAT IN ORDER TO STAY OUT OF COURT LET'S DO WHAT WE HAVE TO DO AND TAKE CARE OF CHILD AND THE OW HAS NOTHING TO SAY BECAUSE WE GET OC EVERY OTHER WEEKEND.IT IS STILL PAINFUL BUT WE WILL GET THROUGH THIS.