Hi everyone!! Sorry I haven't been around for a while, but I've been sooooo busy with a new job, kids going to school, getting ready for it all, and finally trying to adjust to a new schedule. I love my new job, though, and the kids are doing well (boys, ages 12,16,18!)<P>Anyway, I have a situation I'd like advise on. When my 18 year old son was 4, my husband had his first affair. Let me go back a little further. First, when we met our first date was a ride to Bodega Bay on his motorcycle. It was fun, but I was a bit scared as I had a near-accident when I was a girl in my dad's motorcycle, and my friend when I was about 19 got in an accident with her husband. They were trying out a friend's new motorcycle, just going around the block. A drunk pulled out of his driveway and hit them. Her husband died in her arms, and she lost use of both hands and arms for two years. She had a two year old and two month old twins. She didn't hold them for two years! She was left with minimal use of her hands.<P>That was bad enough to scare me from really wanting to ride. But it was fun, so I did it a few times. Then, I got pregnant and we rode when I was three months along. We went over a bump, and I started having pains. I thought I might loose the baby, and that was it for me.<P>Then, back to when my 18 year old was 4. We had a birthday party that lasted all day and went into the evening. You know, kids all day, then the parents and grandparents, friends and so on who stayed. My H decided to go for a motorcycle ride and left me with everyone. He came home around 11:00 when everyone had gone home except my mom. She was visiting from Washington. I had a weird feeling when he got on that bike that night, and when he got home I asked where he'd gone. He said for a ride around the bay, to San Jose. Well, San Jose stuck in my mind and felt wrong. I just knew something was wrong and told my mom. She tried to comfort me and said nothing was wrong, to stop worrying. So we went to bed. The next day we were going to go away for a couple of days and my mom was going to stay with our son. That was the first time we'd ever been away from him overnight. <P>When we were almost there, I just asked him if he was seeing someone, and he said yes. I was devastated, to say the least!!! OK, we didn't have the best marriage in the world, but I didn't think anything like this could happen. You all know what I'm talking about. Anyway, after that, I was horrified and hurt deeply any time he got on that bike. I finally told him how I was feeling, and he got mad that I would feel that way. So I let him do it for years. Finally, six years ago, something snapped in me and I told him that I would not take something from him that he loved that much, but that I could no longer stand it when he left on that bike. And I didn't want to ride it with him. I felt I owed it to my kids to be more responsible. I told him that it had come to the point, in my heart, that it was me or the bike. So he decided to sell the bike. It was his decision. I just honestly couldn't take the pain.<P>Now, six years later, many affairs later, almost a divorce, and finally another reconciliation, and guess what he's asking for? Well, it's too damn soon for me. I don't know if I will ever be able to recover from this, and I don't think I ever want to ride on one. I feel like this. If I don't let him buy one, he'll resent me. If I let him get one and I don't ride with him, will he find someone else to ride with him?<P>Today, I told him I was having a hard time with him talking about buying one again. I really am not ready, and I suggested that maybe we get a convertible or something. He didn't like that idea. We've talked about buy a tent trailer for years, and a couple of kayaks. I suggested we buy those things, and a new bicycle for me, so that we could do things together and as a family. He didn't like that either. I don't know what to do, and would love input from others about this. <P>Am I being unreasonable?<P>Can you relate to my feelings?<P>Your thoughs would be very appreciated.<P>Thanks! Isabelle

Isabelle-<BR>You've had some devastating events associated w/motorcyles and I can understand your hesitation. For what its worth, perhaps you will have to separate your issues on this. It sounds like you have safety and trust issues. I suppose like anyone who is recovering from an affair, getting past the "triggers" requires a choice to TRUST. And believe me, I know too well about the triggers. The trust is well within your control...the safety, however, is not. But what can you really do about that either? You, I'm sure, know his skills and can accurately access the safety factor. Perhaps you can reassess your objections and clarify for yourself what is bothering you MOST about this request. Good Luck.

Hi Drained,<P>The best thing I can say is go with your gut feelings. I have experienced, sorry for the cliche, "a disturbance in the force" far too many times and have been right. I get this odd feeling that everything in my world is not quite right and question the W as if I know something as fact and she confesses to seeing the OM or speaking to him. It's as if I shouldn't do or believe something as presented. I know I'm weird.<P>I can certainly relate to the motorcycle theme. On a completely different scale. I had found out that the W had pizza with the OM the night of discovery and couldn't eat a stupid pizza for months. Sounds dumb, but it certainly made perfect sense to me at the time. Avoid pizza, avoid the pain.<P>I believe that we all deep down inside know what's good for us. It's if we follow what we feel to be true and right.<P>I will still hold onto my Friday deadline because I know it is my destiny. I know, I watch too many movies.<P>Wishing us all the Best<P>Medic

Isabelle: I am just wondering if the reason that you don't want your husband to get a motorcycle is really because of the safety factor, or is it because you associate it with his being unfaithful to you? The reason I ask is this. I had a similar? problem with my husband's cell phone. It is permanently in his truck, and I do not have the access code. I had asked him repeatedly to get rid of it, and get a portable one, so we could both share it. He had many excuses why he could not do this, but the main one was that he had that same phone# for 18 years, and he was not about to change it. I explained to him that it had been fine, when he had his own business, but now, he should not be getting business calls anyway, so no one needs the number, except myself, and my 2 sons. We got into a terrible argument one day while out driving, and he pulled over, and threatened to throw it in the garbage can. I told him that if it meant THAT much to him, by all means, keep it! When I went to the counsellor the following week, I related the story to her. She asked what my REAL problem was with the phone. I didn't realize until that moment, that I associated the phone with his infidelity, as many times, the phone was used as a "go between" for setting up meetings. She had a different take on it. She felt that it was the one last tie to his company, the company he had started, and built up for 24 years. It was not seen as a phone to him, but rather a link to the success he had accomplished over the years. When I thought about it, I realized that she might be right, so I knocked off the harping about his cellphone. (There had never been any innapropriate calls made, or messages left) as I had been in the habit of checking the minutes used, through the phone company. That was quite awhile ago, and about 2 weeks ago, out of the blue, my H mentioned that maybe it was time for him to get rid of the phone, and get one that we could both share. (Where did he hear that from?) I know that I have rambled on, but just wanted to pass that theory onto you. What do you think?<P>Success Story (why me)<P>------------------<BR><BR>SUCCESS STORY<P>

hi drained, good to hear from you! I think there are a few of us that have been away...resting the brain and getting the spiritual feelings back were they belong!! <BR>I have to agree with medic-go with the gut. In june my h wanted to take a trip across the us to an area near one ow. I just could not do it. After a few weeks of bull, like not calling for reservations, not asking for the time off work, etc, I finally just told him that I could not go there. He thought it was ridiculous but I stood firm that I was not going. The pain and fears do fade with time because we are going there in 2 wks. It is not an easy thing for me, but something that needs to happen. Am I apprehensive? You bet, but I am also strong and can handle it now. What will happen if I start to meltdown while there? I guess the H will have to pickup the pieces!! <BR>SO, follow the gut and time will help you heal. Ohh, such words of simplicity! cl

hi drained! hi cl! i was SO missing you guys.<BR>drained, i know you are upset by the motorcycle thing for both safety AND trigger issues. maybe give your H a time frame for discussing it? like, "hey, this really bothers me, can we make a date to dicuss it in 2 months?" OR,you could insist on a sidecar, and he can't take it out without you or one of the boys <P>on me: H took the job in novato, and finally moved home last week. things are strained between us somewhat, but he's been bedbound with the flu, so i've had a chance to plan A him a little (still losing my temper still, though!)<P>oh well, glad you are back!<BR>oh, if you are curious, he posted a while ago, under the name "entangled in celtic knot"<P>------------------<BR>for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, till death do us part.<P><BR>

Thank you all for your responses.<P>I think I have to go with the "gut" thing, as it has served me so well in the past. For some reason, I don't think I can get over this one. I know it's silly, but I knew it years ago, and I know it now. I shouldn't be forced to do things that are against my will. If someone loves you enough, shouldn't they give and take? I'm willing to make compromises and say "let's get the tent trailer we've always wanted, and take camping trips with the family." <P>I remember reading something Steve Harley wrote, something about both people enthusiastically agreeing on things. Well, I don't entusiastically agree about the motorcycle, and never will, I'm afraid. <P>I've discussed this with my therapist in the past and she felt he was being insensitive to my needs at the time. I'll have to discuss it again. <P>He made a comment that he wants one since he's sacraficed and driven an older car for several years while I drove a new car. Yet, he fails to remember that he owns a garage full of toys, as well as collections of very expensive items, he lives in a very nice home, has everything he could possibly want and need, so I don't think he's ever had to sacrafice too much. I wish he would just come to me and say, "I know this means a lot to you, and I don't want to do anything that is going to hurt you or bring back bad feelings." Fat chance of that, though.<P>And another thing. The other day he brought home a bag of beans from the neighbor who also cuts his hair. She has a shop right across the street, and lives right next door to the shop. About a year and a half ago I had a weird feeling that the two of them might have had an affair. He denies it to the ends of the earth, and maybe I'm wrong. Though I've never been wrong on these things before. Anyway, when he had affairs, he was given some gifts from women such as T-shirts, plants, and so on. So that's another very sore subject with me. I had explained my concerns with him, and asked him to stop getting his hair cut by her. He refused. He's not very giving, and he isn't sensitive to my feelings/needs. I also asked him to stop bringing things home that she was giving him. It brought back horrible feelings about when I found out about the gifts from other women. You see, he had gotten these things over many years, and I had suspected something was wrong with each and every one of the items. Yet he acted like I was crazy. I started to wonder if I was. Then, about two years ago the entire truth came out from his best friend (who I threated to tell his wife some things I knew, so he was fully willing to talk), as well as a woman I spoke to who he'd been seeing for five years at work. Sleeping with, too, might I add. Anyway, sore subject again, gifts from other women.<P>The other day he went to get his hair cut, by her again, and when I got home, there was a bag of beans on my kitchen counter. When he walked in the house I said, "those, I'm sure, are not from Mary, right?" And he said they were, that he hand't even thought about it. I asked how he could not have thought about it. How could he forget something that I made such a huge issue over. The last time he brought something home from her, I told him to please refuse things from her, and if she does give him things, to please throw them in the garbage before he even comes into the house. I don't think it's normal for a hair dresser to give things like that. I wonder...do they go to her house to get the stuff? I am so sick of worrying, wondering, and feeling like an idiot becuase I'm reliving these things over and over again. Like he's oblivious and so incensitive. I don't want to spend my life with someone so insensitive.<P>This morning I told him that things were going to have to change, and that he's going to have to make more of an attempt to save this marriage and to work on it, or it's not going to work. He said OK. We'll see. I said I need for him to talk to me more, to connect with me more, to be more sensitive to my needs, and to not continue to do things that were discussed and resolved months and months ago. <P>Anyone else get tired of revisiting the past?? I sure do.<P>I have been trying to make it work. I have been trying to be more sensitive and forgiving and all of that. There are sure plenty of things for me to be forgiving about, too many, perhaps. Sometimes I wonder. But nothing can get better if he can't even respect my feelings and wishes about things that are not that important. How damn important is it to bring home a bag of beans? Especially when he knows the pain it causes? He said since things are better (in his eyes, I guess) then he didn't think it mattered anymore. Wake up!!!! Who said things are so much better, I'm just trying to tread water right now. I'm trying to see if I can forgive, and I know already I can't forget. And the pain won't lessen until he makes more of an effort. I know that. <P>As you can tell, I'm not having a great time here with my husband. For the family, sure I want it to work. For me too, and for our future. But I know, deep inside of me, that there are some things that are irrepairable and unforgettable. Such as the motorcycle, gifts from other women, and so on.<P>Yes, follow the gut...it's served me so well in the past!!<P>Thanks again for your input. I've missed you guys too.<P>Love Was Blind - so you're in Novato? And do you like it? I hope the stress level gets better and that you two will begin to get along better. I know, it's so darn hard!!!<P>I printed a bunch of stuff off of the Marriage Builders website with everything from the love busters stuff to the questionnaires. Looked like a book when I was done. I suggested that we start reading this stuff and working on things, and he acted like it would be too much effort and that, well, what's the matter with me anyway? I thought things were better? Wake up, my dear husband, you are assuming far too much!!<P>Medic238 - I can relate to the pizza thing ... it's not dumb. You're not dumb. Just a sensitive human being who wants love.<P>Enlightened - The safety issue is a real one for me. But the infidelity issue is much stronger, or at least equally as strong. They both tear at me, and I truly, honestly, for real, don't want to ride on a motorcycle, ever! Yes, they are fun, yes, I like the feeling of the wind in my hair, yes, yes, yes. But, I don't feel right, like a small voice inside of me saying "NO!!!" So, I will listen instead of letting him control that aspect of my life, too.<P>Why me - Like I said above, I wish he'd come to me and tell me he doesn't need to get one since he sees the pain it causes me. Good for your H about the cell phone. I only wish....<P>Cl - You're right ... follow the gut!! Glad to hear from you too. I guess sometimes we need a rest from here, and we get far too busy in our lives. I had a three day weekend, and it was wonderful! I got the downstairs thoroughly cleaned, you know, the corners, behind furniture, all that good stuff. It looks good, and that's always a good feeling for me.<P>Good night everyone!<P>Isabelle

hi was blind,<BR>thank you very much! I missed you too. Wow, h is home!?!?! I think I have some reading to catch up on here. I am very happy for the both of you, and for your children.<BR>Ahh, the chicken noodle soup routine at your house. That is a great time to show some care. Okay, so we all lose it sometimes, and we are not quite perfect, but we are trying!!<BR>Careful about lovebusters even when it is really hard. (is it really okay to bite your tongue til you bleed?) <BR>Be patient, you will be fine! Will read your h's posts when I get caught up! (((hugs)))