Hi I have been lurking for about a week now..<BR>I am in the same situation as all of you woman are.<BR>I am a married woman mother of 3 who found out her Husband<BR>cheated and produced a child. I have been looking for a place to belong..and I have yet to find one...I need help and yes I am in counseling...But I need more help...I dont want things to be over with my marriage, and my husband is committed to stay..but I have alot of feelings that I cant express to him or others (I dont want the world to know my business..it would be harmful to my kids)..so I came to the internet...unfortuantly I dont think this site is for me... but alot of you have been at this for awhile( sorry for the choice of words....or I should say lack of them)...there is a lot of hate here...yes you all support one another...but there is so much hate...I dont understand why...My Husband has cheated and I have immense hate for his behavior and betrayal..but I try to remember why I loved him in the first place and why we were married...My childern are perfect and I want them to have both of their parents...But my Husband messed up big time...and he is sorry but now my children have a sister...and I am not her mother...that is so hard...But I dont hate her...I wish I could see her ( is that sick?? I dont know)...I dont want anything to do with her mother..and she agreed ...but I want us to have visitation...I think it is important that she know she has 2 bothers and a sister...and most of all that she has a father...that hurts..but she did not ask to be born and I am so glad her mother chose life ( my Catholic up bringing)....I would have hated her mother if she had aborted...then she truly would have been completely irresponsible...one for getting involved with a married man and 2) for aborting a life...so I guess she is not completely stupid....she is not the nicest person in the world...and I feel my childrens sister ( easier to say than my husbands daughter)should have a positive influence in her life and I think we are her only hope....we are good people and we love...and if you have that...it will be amazing what you can endure...hate only breeds hate...you here are full of it...(with of course that of how you feel within your "club")..I am sorry to be so harsh..but how can anyone hate an innocent...even if her mother is not a good person...if you could please give me address to other sites for women like us...but dont hate the other child and want to know how to work it all out..or have working arrangements in our cases I really could use it...I am at <BR>the end of my rope...I do wish you all luck I know the pain....and I do wish you all well...my mother always told me that everyone has a Cross to bare in life and this one is mine....I know God would want me to be loving and Christian about it...Thank you<BR>My Cross

Hello, My Cross...<P>Welcome to the forum. I cannot claim to even begin to understand how you feel. While my husband has left me for another woman and is currently seeking divorce, I do not have the cross you have to bear.<P>I think you may have the wrong impression about this forum, though. There are many women here, with many attitudes about their situations. I am aware of several who have supported contact between their husband's and OC's - I would say that none of them hate the OC, just the circumstances that they now must live in because of the misdeed's of others. Not everyone can or will react in the same way to anything - so please, stay and talk to the people here at MB. They will be as supportive of you as you are of them.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Welcome, My Cross. I am sorry such for the circumstance that brought you here. <P>We all deal differently with stress and how we handle things. I appreciate what you are saying, but in this safe place, people are able to vent, say what they feel, process information and options and be supported. <P>I am sorry that you see hate here. I do not. I see people in pain. <P>Thank you for your post and hope you stay around.

Terri,<P>Thank you, for your reply..I do need a place to be ..but maybe in a different forum than this one...I will look around Marriage builders and see if I fit in somewhere..<BR>I came to this thread because of the situation I have been forced to deal with...My Husbands affair was 3 weeks in length...we think she wanted a baby, because her bio clock was ticking and she had no children..my husband is smart and good looking, and we really believe she used him as a sperm donor...he said he was weak because I have so preoccupied with our kids ...he thought I lost interest in him...well a total lack of communation...and I refused to take that reponsiblity...But we are doing better ..d-day was 6 weeks ago...she did not tell him until after his daughter was born...I have seen pictures...she looks like my oldest...it hurts...I wish we could just raise her..but the OW wanted a baby..so that will never happen...she does not like me...she said I am candy coated and lived in LaLa land...all because I did not curse at her and call her names<BR>she did not think that was "normal"...But I am not fighter I never have been...she thinks my husband stayed because he wanted to protect me...I told her that was just "crap" because if he wanted to protect me...he would never have done this to me...anyway...you get the picture...I am totally all vented up and no place to go...I appreciate your support...<BR>My Cross

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MyCross:<BR> I have many of teh same feelings that you do. i don't believe any of the women hate the OC i believe they fear the OC and you know the two can look a lot alike. I am turning to my faith and trying to get my heart to open up and love the OC. Please see my reply to the Abraham passage under the "MY FAITH" post that may tell you where i am coming from.<BR>

WhatIF<P>wow now I feel bad...I never thought that the hateful remarks could be fear...I guess I am still in the spinning part of this when as a mother all I think of is that poor child...I have not gotten to the fear part ..I pray I do not fear that little angel...she is precious...I wish she was not my husbands...but ...well thank you for the insight...I pray that we will not be affraid of the demonds that haught us...I will pray for all of our marriages and ALL the children involved in these unfortuant circumstances...and I pray we can forgive our husbands and they can forgive themselves..and that all of us do the right thing in Gods eyes...Amen<BR>My Cross

Dear My Cross,<P>I have not been here for a few days, so I can not vouch for that time period, but I do think maybe you misunderstood...no one here "hates" the oc. Some people cannot accept, but that does not equal "hate", does it? Everyone here has a different way of dealing with things and that is fine bc we are all different people. On here are very raw emotions...things are said here that could only be said here. We try to empathize and encourage each other just to live our lives. Sometimes that is all we can do. Sometimes we can do more...<P>When I first found out about oc I had probably about the same attitude as you do towards ow\oc. I have never yelled or cursed at ow. And back then (2 yrs) I was actually nice to her. I tried (for some strange reason) to put myself in her shoes...yes, I even had sympathy for her. Of course, little known to me at the time, she played on that. I sent my daughters clothes and new stuff to oc. I even sent oc's older sister a Christmas present so she wouldn't feel left out. (Her father was not there either and I didnt want her to hate this new baby that comes along and is already getting packages in the mail.) Anyway, I talked to ow..asking about oc. She called often, really too often. Ow also could not understand why I did the things that I did. She often told me so. I think maybe I was trying to approach the situation the way Jesus would...trying to love the unsaved..I am assuming she is or was unsaved. I was also trying to be the example for my H..he was saved but had been very angry for a long long time. I wanted oc in our lives and was open to the idea of her coming into my home. However ow was not. She couldnt stand the idea of me having anything to do with her daughter. That was not the plan. She really thought when she came up pg my H would leave me and our daughter and go make a little happy home with her.<P>ow called me one day and decided seh was going to tell the "truth" about the affair..this is a yr later. It caused all kinds of probs at home, needless to say. I confronted H...he admitted to about 3/4 of what she had said to me. I told her what he denied...she got upset. Decided she was going to prove it to me...she kinda went loopy. THen she called me at like 6am and asked me something very personal and vulgar and I about had a heartattack. I called H and he had our # changed. She freaked and filed for cs (with supervised visitation by her). We had been paying cs. We got a lawyer and filed for joint custody..so we would at least get visitation. That scared her, like I said, she wanted me to have nothing to do with oc. She dropped her own cs case and moved a few months later. I sent oc a huge box of stuff and I emailed her to let her know it was on its way. She told me she had moved and left no forwarding address. I offered to sent it back to a friend's or a po box. She said thanks, but no thanks. She would give no address. She took oc out of our lives before we even got a chance to do anything.<P>That happened about a yr ago. The way I now look at it is her child had a chance...ow took it away. I am not going to waste time or $ that we do not have searching for this woman. We do not bring in enough $ to even begin to do anything.<P>Anways, I just felt compelled to share a bit of my story with you. Prayers for your family..<P>Love<P>broken_wings

I just say that I haven't seen any hatred towards OC's on this board. Extreme dislike for OWs that seem to make a horrible situation worse with harrassment, too much CS demands, etc. prehaps.<P>For me I do not hate OC at all, she is part of my H (my God is that hard to type) and I therefor care a great deal about her. OW...I don't exactly like her, but don't hate her, just wish she was a little smarter (H, too, of course). However, to preserve my family, I do not want OC to be a part of our lives. <P>#1-My feeling(and H) is that H would not be able to be a real Daddy to her, and that seeing him returning to us, per se, would only build resentment/little self-worth for her. ('yeah, he sees me once a year, but lives with them') I think she'd be much better off w/o him all together...given OW doesn't fill her head with "Daddy didn't want you" but "He couldn't be the Daddy you deserved". We may be 'curious' later on, (a little now) but we feel a clean break will leave less confusion, resentment, etc later on...<P>#2-to preserve OUR family...OW had always wanted a child (cervical cancer, OC is a real miracle baby for her)...she got the best possible outcome from a horrible mistake...we just want to preserve what we already had...(w/minimal damage to OUR children)<P>OW doesn't really agree w/ #1, (or #2, really) but I think(hope) she realizes that it is really out of care for OC. She feels something is better than nothing, we don't agree. You don't miss what you never knew, you miss what you see and can't have (a daddy to tuck you in at night, etc). My mom was a great single mom (very different situation) and I never missed a thing or felt a void. She let me know that HE wasn't capable of being a Daddy, that we were better off just 'us'...it wasn't untill I overheard a conversation (that he REALLY didn't want me--said those exact words in court) that I felt that 'void'...<P>I am tangeting...my point is that those of us that don't want OC 'in' our lives have no hatred toward OC...There are others that do have OC's in their lives (enough said).<P>some really can't stand OW...but if you check their stories, that is completely understandable (some are very hateful themselves and out to destroy).<P><BR>We have all made different choices, guided by our hearts, that are right for us. But I honestly don't see any hatred on this board (and I've been lurking, unitll recently since July 2000). There is more compassion and wisdom than is believable. (to be honest I am still amazed that I don't hate my H, that I have forgiven him (though trust is still a struggle)). In fact the only harsh statements I've noticed have been made to defend against posters that have been attacking/insulting.<P>You are in a difficult place now, to say the least. I, as well as other posters here, know your pain all too well. Please give this board another try(a week's not very long), if nothing else, just lurk for a bit more and see if your view doesn't change. Believe me, I have often mourned the loss of my 'family' and its sacredness ...it really does help to know that there's others out there...and not just on Springer..and that they've survived.<P><BR>[This message has been edited by DumbStruck (edited April 29, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by DumbStruck (edited April 29, 2001).]

"there is so much hate...I dont understand why.."<P>You sound a great deal like the lurkers we periodically 'host'. If you are a legitimate poster who doesn't attack others, you will get support. There is no need to pit no contact/contact families AGAINST each other any more than pit working/nonworking parents against each other. There are reasons for both. If you simply cannot stand those who chose no contact, if you consider no contact a sin against Christianity, then perhaps you will be more comfortable creating another forum for your support.

Wow. That's the first thing that popped in my head when I read your post about "hate" towards the OC. <P>I stuggle to remember one post that relayed hate towards the OC and just couldn't. Perhaps you can point me to it, because surely I must have missed it.<P>This site is flowing with women who stuggle every day in the harsh reality that their husband's affairs have produced. Their realities contain different histories, personalities, court judgements, etc. But one thing we always try to agree on is that we don't judge other's for how they FEEL.<P>I feel blessed to be apart of a group that respects each other's individuality and alows me to express myself without fear of judgement.<P>I think what you are sensing is a hatred for the OW that mothered the child of our husbands. Many of us have been scorned not only initially with the affair but after. I will take a moment to tell you my story.<P>My second child, my daughter attended a day care when she was three months old. I will not go into detail about the breakdown of my marriage and what caused my husband to have an affair, that's a whole other post. But he ended up having a sexual affair with a daycare worker that lasted 1.5 years. Within the first month of the affair she was pregnant. I wasn't informed about the OC until she was 8mths. old (this past December). My husband wanted to continue contact with the OC (he ended the affair). Because I love my husband and chose to stay I supported his decision. In fact, just two weeks after D-day I arranged with OW for my husband to spend a couple of hours on Xmas day with his daughter and our family. From that day forward I was the one to pick OC up for weekends, I paid for diapers and formula, I listened to OW whine on the phone about her "boyfriend" to keep her peaceful. Well like Broken Wing's OW, mine got sour at the fact that I was her most prominent contact and that I was being sooooo nice. This didn't give her the access to my H like she had hoped. I guess my niceness pissed her off enough to solicit my husband for sex one day when he dropped off her money. And wanted to know why they couldn't be together again. This is the same woman who swore to me just days before that she never wanted to be with my H again and was happy in her relationship with her new "boyfriend." My H turned her down flat, but I know as well as he, that she will try again. Maybe not right away, but that was her plan all along. To get pregnant and have my husband for herself.<P>I gave her the benefit of the doubt that she accidentally got pregnant, but now I know that she couldn't and can't stand the fact that we are together and happy and we accept her daughter into our lives. It's not what she banked on.<P>So, my point MyCross is, my hatred is not for OC, but for her mother. If someone kidnapped your child and then you accepted them into your life and they tried to kidnap them again, would you not put up a defense? I feel like she took him away for a brief moment in time, and now that we've gotten back on the right track, she continues to try to take him. For that I feel hatred towards her. And unfortunately, at this moment in time I cannot look at her child without thinking about the hate for her mother. I know in time it will fade, but for now, I choose not to be involved in visitation until I can get the ill feelings I have for her mother at bay. I prefer to concentrate on rebuilding my marriage so my children don't end up like hers with a part time daddy.<P>That's just me being honest. Sorry so long and I hope you don't feel my words are too harsh.<P>My last note to you would be, take a moment to really read what these women are feeling. What we feel is true for us, just like what you feel is true for you. I would never tell you that you were wrong for feeling like you do.<P>Believe me, if you want to rebuild your marriage, this is the place to get the support you need. We have many women here that accept the OC in their lives. And you know what, some of the best advice I've gotten on rebuilding, refocusing and getting through this have been from women who do not accept the OC. That's just how we are here. <P>Keep reading, keep posting,<P>------------------<BR>Zebra Baby ...<P>Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Jenny, I hope with all my heart that you are wrong, but I don't think so. There are many Christian women and men on this forum. I myself am a devout Catholic and the only time I have heard anyone talking about "hate" for an OC came from the OW invaders. I also find it unusual for a Christian to make a sarcastic reference to our "club". Something is not right here.<P>MyCross, I have to echo what Jenny said -- if you are a legitimate poster looking for help, there are many, including myself, who are more than happy to give you support. <P>But, if in fact you have already decided that we are all "full of hate" and we are "breeding hate" then why did you post after lurking for so long? You admitted that you felt this site was not right for you. <P>Like Zebrababy said, I have only met here many decent men and women struggling to play the hand that life has dealt them. We are all finding our way one day at a time. I have never seen anyone on this site "breeding hatred" and although many of us cannot handle "contact" -- that is not the sin. The OW sleeping with a married man is the sin.<P>[This message has been edited by heavenlybody26 (edited April 30, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by heavenlybody26 (edited April 30, 2001).]

mycross,<P>i don't know where you get the idea that there is hate towards the OC here. i do not hate the OC. i hate the circumstances of her conception and birth, but not her. i wish her well in this world and hope she can make the best out of the life she was born into. as i did with the life i was born into, and everyone does with what they were given. <P>i am not sure if i hate the OW, i strongly dislike her, and what she did to me. she has never once asked how this has affected me or our marriage. yet i have thought many times of her daughter, felt bad for her situation and prayed that she will have a good life. and i know my H did wrong, but he has admitted that, and done his best to make amends. she on the other hand acts as if she never did anything wrong.<P>if you want help, this is a good place. but not with the attitude you have. the women here who have contact don't try to force it down the throats of those who don't and vice versa. please don't go professing your christianity if you aren't going to be an example of it either, it is like telling someone one "there is no f*&^ing swearing allowed in my house". you contradict yourself as you speak. and it makes it hard for people to believe anything else you are saying.<P>i hope that if you truly are "at the end of your rope", that you can try not to be so quick to judge us. you may be in a similar situation, but you still aren't in the exact same shoes as anyone here. all our situations are similar, yet totally unique. no one rule applies to any situation. and i know we all make mistakes and say things we sometimes don't really mean when we feel strongly about something. i am guilty of that myself. but here on this forum, though we all have different opinions, no one is trying to change someone elses decision. we are hear to help with the pain of this situation, offer comfort, encouragement, and support. <P>happy_girl

MyCross,<BR>My first thought when I read what you had to say about hate was here we go again another wolf in sheeps clothing. I have found nothing but love here I have to agree with what everyone else has already said. When a person is so quick to find fault in others they need to look inside themselves. Is it possible you have that hate think you see here in your heart? I have found by coming here that I have been able to put the awful feelings to rest never have I found hate here for oc only people trying to rid themselves of the awful feelings that have came from having there lives raped. with love flowerseed

I have been on this board a year now. I have never seen one post about hating OC. There have been posts of resentment for situation, resentment of OW, even anger at spouse. But this place is the safe place to come and express these thoughts. That helps protect the marriage and aid in recovery. You can post and get feedback from a neutral location.... not friends, family, spouse, etc. who could end up hearing more that they need to or take the anger as directed at them. I have been angry plenty of times and posted here (mad at CS system, mad at why my H could have been SOO STUPID, mad at him for not being the man he should be and protecting his family instead of letting the wolf in the door & setting the table for her). If I had ranted at my H it would have been a lovebuster. But to bottle it would eat me alive at the time. Once it was out & over with I got past it.... and healed a little more. <P>You even state that mother of your OC is not a nice person. Perhaps she is, but just made an error in judgement? In my case, OW knew my H was married, had met his children and went straight ahead with her actions and used no birth control. Now she refuses to let OC be around me and my children, but jumped on CS as fast as she could. She holds my H to visitation at her house without me. Anyway, we all have different OW and OM in our lives. Some are sorry and back off. Others are intent on harm. I for one will not fault any BS for showing anger at some of the OW and OM who have violently attached their families. I feel God expects me to protect my family and not allow harm to come to my children. If that means showing action against OW, I will do it (legal action, etc.). I will not cause harm to my childrens' half sibling. That would hurt my children in the long run and as good mother I cannot do that. <P>Please do not fault people that are in pain for words that come from the most horrible experience most have ever know. Please be tolerent of their mathods of expressing that pain. <P>I wish you well in your journey. It is an individual one for sure. Take care... Carolyn

I have really hit nerves with some of you...that was not my intention...I came here requesting "other sites" because I felt I did not fit in here...I feel that more than ever..Here I am reeling in my pain and I have been accused of not being "real" because I do not FEEL as you..Right now I FEEL NOTHING FOR THE OW...I feel hope for the OC and I feel all kind of things for my husband that range from extreme Love to hate...Jenny your story of Sarai is off...read the passage...and discuss it with you Preist. it was Sarai who insisted that Hagar (her maid) sleep with her Husband because she did not give him another a son...she was fine with it until Hagar got PG..then Sarai treated Hagar horrible...Hagar (the OW) left...she was not cast out by God..and a Messenger of God told her to go back, and take the abuse...because it was the right thing to do...so Hagar went back..(by the way Abram was 88 y/o)...now anyone can take a Bible passage and read into it what they need..<BR>and heavenly...as a Catholic than you know...if your Children are not that of a couple that were Married in the Church they are not legit in the Churches eyes (I have taken all my sacraments...so OC would be illegitiment anyway dont worry I will not be back...I will not cast any doubts on what you do here..I am an outsider...I dont know why God had me here in the first place....why I felt so compelled to post in the first place...But this has hurt me and has made me feel worse...and more confused so this is not the site for me...I will continue to search...for my home in all this...Thank you to those who were nice to me and supportive...But I came here with a different view and was accused of not being "real" this is a very sad...for Jenny and Heavenly...hate to burst your bubble...But I am real...I have been married for 17 years...have 3 kids...I thought it was a good marriage....but I was wrong..I am dealing with that first...as far as the OC is concerned...I dont remember who said it...BUT any contact with her father I feel is better than no contact...I cant imagine her growing up thinking she was not worthy of even a little time...and I do know that will have a serious impact on my marriage...I have some insecure feeling from that I will need help getting through that...Thats how I feel today...as far as CS goes we are paying...OW agreed to an amt that was acceptable to all..we are seeking to have visitation in our home...we think over time OW will agree...those of us with children know we can use a break and OW is realizing that ...so we are hopeful to come to an agreement...I just need help...to come out of this "I am in a nightmare and I cant wake up"...so I will be greatful if you could post websites I can check out to see if I have a better fit...Good luck to you all..and God bless<BR>MyCross

MyCross:<P>As a fellow Catholic, I'm sorry to see you in so much pain. This website is probably the most supportive one you can find for your marriage, so I'd encourage you to stay around.<P>I think the reason you got a bad taste in your mouth is twofold:<P>1. We have had "unfriendly" posters here attacking some members.<P>2. You came in with your first post being judgemental in tone.<P>I think some of the other posters here were concerned with the apparent contradictions in your post. You have trouble with the "immense hate" here, but then post about your hatred of your husband's actions, your potential "hatred" towards the OW (if she had chosen abortion). Now, I can completely sympathize with the way you feel, but your inital post was somewhat inconsistant in the message it was sending.<P>If you want to deal with restoring your marriage as your first priority, I would recommend that you try either the General Questions or Recovering sections of this website. If you're really looking for somewhere else to post, Michele Weiner-Davis's <A HREF="http://www.divorcebusting.com/" TARGET=_blank>Divorcebusting</A> site also has a similar forum. <P>If you want to vent, this is a safe place (normally) for you to do so. If you need help and advice in regards to rebuilding your marriage, or dealing with the OC, then we have lots of experience to offer. There's really no "hate" here---even with the bothersome OP's that occasionally show up.

MyCross,<BR>I think someone already asked this but I will ask again what has been said that you feel that the oc is hated? We all are handleing things in our familys the best we know how. For some that is contact with oc for some it is not nobody finds it wrong or right either way. If you can just take the time and direct me to what post make you feel there is a lot of hate here for oc. I would really like to see where you are coming from. Sorry you feel this way. with love flowerseed

MyCross,<P>I am the first to apologize for being wrong. For me, this site was once a very safe place to vent and to get good advice on issues. But lately, after witnessing the vicious manner in which some of us have been attacked by OWs -- and for no reason at all -- some new posters are viewed with suspicion.<P>You used pretty strong language by saying that we were breeding hatred on this site and that was unusual for a first time poster looking for help. It is likely that is what led Jenny to her original conclusion and certainly led me to the same.<P>Everyone is welcome on this site because chances are you will find someone who has a similar story and has similar beliefs. Perhaps it is the newness of your situation and the painful search for answers that you are going through that prevented you from being clear in your post.<P>For my part, I certainly did not mean to inflict any pain on you. We are all suffering and have been trying our best to protect some of those in weaker shape from the vultures that have been circling. I hope you will stay and get the support that you need. There are many people here with deep religious convictions and they may be able to help you work through your indecision.<P>I don't know why you mentioned to me that children not born of the marriage are not legit. But, I believe that God loves us all and in the same way. There are many who label children -- even some of the posters here -- but I think that comes from the frustration and the hurt that is deep inside each of us who are dealing with this issue.<P>For myself, even with "no contact", there is not a day that goes by that I do not worry about the OC, wonder what effects growing up without a father is having in her life. To be or not to be involved in her life has been a never-ending struggle and has led me on a personal journey to try to find out what God's wishes are for me in this matter.<P>The OC is very much legitimate -- she is a child, albeit born of mistakes -- but still a child equal in many respects to my own children. But, at this point in my life, since I am a mother, my first role is to protect my own children. The OW has the same role to play for her daughter. And no one will stop me from doing what I think is best for my children. <P>I have learned not to apologize for my position. But, it is not a position that I arrived at lightly, without any difficulty or pain, and it is not one that I maintain without continuing pain.<P>So, when you accuse all of us of breeding hatred, you also hurt me and probably a lot of other people who read your post. This site used to be a true place of comfort and joy, but lately, there is too much suspicion and far too many judgments. So, MyCross, I think I will join you in the search for a site that fits.<P>Meanwhile, I hope you won't mind that I will include you in the daily prayers I offer for all of us who are victims of this terrible situation. Best of luck to you. I know how unbearable the pain can be, but I assure you that there are answers for everyone in this situation if you look long enough and deeply enough into your heart and mind.<P>heavenly<BR>

Okay, here I go again ) I guess you can call me the fence rider in all situation. I think everyone is all confused again! You know how people say that you can tell one story but people will see it the way that best fits them or they will interpret it the way you see it. People her confuse a lot of the time with the passion and feelings coursing through people as hate. I think when MyCross was talking about hate, I think she might have been referring to some of the things that have been said about the OC that might be interpreted as hate, but was not meant that way by the poster. I know the one thread that really distrubed me and had me worried was a while back when everyone was referring to the OC as a [censored] child, Mistakes or illegitimate. I think in most people eyes that is just not thing they would like to her referred to a child. When you are mad at someone or you hate them or something like that that is when you refer to me as [censored], that same word used on an innocent child is just wrong. I agree with the poster that said that in God eyes their are no illegitament children, because all of them are his. I think that is why some people come to the conclusion that there is hatered for OC. I don't think they mean that anyone directly said I hate the OC, but some of the ways that people have referred to the children can be misconstrued as hate. Just my opinion )

What the heck did those faces get there. They are meant to be smiley faces.