Hello everyone. This is my first post on this board, but I have been reading the MB site and books for some time. I thought though that the principles would not need to be used until there WAS a problem. Maybe it is because my HUSBAND saw no problem in the marriage realtionship. I am not exactly sure how much detail to go into with my first post, but here goes. Thank you so much in advance for all who read and/or comment.

This realtionship started off rocky and emotional from the very beginning. I will say that in alot of ways I got involved with my husband for the wrong reasons. I was lonely, afraid and held some self esteem problems deep in my heart that are just now coming to light. Let me sum up the beginning of our realtionship where he wanted me for sex and companionship but was not ready make any sort of committment. He stayed with me through some stuff, but we had agreed NOT to put all of our eggs in one basket due to the fact that he went to a military academy and has not had THAT much experiance with women(his side) And I married young prior to meeting him(16) so we, and especially ME saw no reason to put all of my heart and soul into a realtionship when the man wanted to sow his wild oats. At first we were friends for many months but as time went on he was meeting all of my emotional needs and we had some drinks, one thing led to another and we had sex..This is what he claimed he wanted, and he was happy about it..Now in the light of day it was uncomfortable because I knew deep down I was afraid, and I also BELIEVED him when he told me he had other options when it came to women. So, I stated that if either of us had sex with anyone else we would be sure to tell the other. After all I thought, he does not want monogamy and it had been my experiance that MOST men(young men fresh out of college) don't. I was not going to fight a battle.

So a little time went on. We spent MUCH time together, but we did not tell each other EVERYTHING. I told him if he wanted my undying love and devotion that he had to agree on marriage within the year because I could not continue see(living sex)with him on no certainty. He told me he was not ready for marriage and that if I felt the need to date other men it was perfectly fine with him, as he wanted to call back home and talk to some old GIRL friends. To this I said OK, and started dating and talking to the few guys that had come courting. I figured(stupidly) that this guy(husband) was not going to be the one so I held no shame in getting EMOTIONAL only needs met by other men. He told me it was OK and he proceeded to talk(in secret I am sure) with other women. He, as far as I know never had a sexual realtionship AFTER we became sexual with any of these women.

The problem started when I was dating another man for awhile and ended up being aggressivly pursued sexually. Had a good time and ended up sleeping with this other man. THis was after (hubby to be) told me it was OK for sex to happen as he was not ready to commit. He played games the day after before I told him about it, saying things like he thinks I am TOO into him and he does not think things are going to work out between us(before I told him ANYTHING)

SO, I told him that very next day about the man, and he told me well OK, I said it was OK so I am not THAT bothered by it. We talked for a very short time about it, and he basicly acted like it was a joke. From that time on I kept all affection and sex in the realtionship(with hubby to be) although he had MANY instances where women I knew he had been sexual with in the past call and ask for him and he would just call me his ROOMATE, and we had been sharing a bed for 4 months. When the lease came up to be renewed he said that we had to live apart for awhile and that sicne he was going to THAILAND(military) that it would be a nice way for us to slowly fizzle out the realtionship. He told me he was attracted to some women at work and that he did not want me to think that I had to be faithful to him.

I then moved in with a FRIEND ONLY, named Greg who really was there for my as a FRIEND with no sexual issues AT ALL. Greg and I started having fun together(I paid rent and had my own room) we had a lot of interests that were similar. He was on his way to med school after the acadmey and like the way(I see now) I admired him and his witty genuis. Hubby to be was off in Thailand with the threat that other women hads caught his eye, and that he would tell me in a hurry if he bacame sexual. Needless to say, Greg started filling in on ALL emotional needs with a wonderful belief in me that made me feel like a special person first and foremost.

I decided after a month of having hubby to be calling me and telling me he just wanted to be friends, that I could no longer deal with me explaining to him that I WAS good enough for him. I do not have a great education, actually non at all and I have always had a complex about it, he played on my weaknesses. SO in my mind and heart the love bank was empty and it was time to move on and stop spending energy I needed for myself in order to make some changes in my life.
Greg was right there, he asked me to marry him before I had ever given him a kiss. He wanted me there in his life, and he did not think he could make it through medical school without me. I was dumbfounded because I had not thought of myself as GOOD ENOUGH for anyone by that time. I gave it a few days and told Greg that I think we could do this but I need some time to process hubby to be out my system, plus I had to return his car when he returned from Thailand.

Greg and I became sexual, but I was ready to move forward with him and slowly and gently tell hubby to be that it was over. I returned the car and to my surprise he had a ring and told me he loved me more than anything. That he was acting like a boy and trying to be a cool guy when he is acting like he does not care about me. He loved me but he was confused about all the other people that had been in my life and he wanted to consider marriage and he wanted me to move in. I told him right there about Greg, and he said I DON"T CARE, I want you and love you and it is not going to change.

So now I was REALLY confused, but after about 4 weeks I had made my choice and I was with hubby to be. I won't go into too much of what happened when we lived together, but let's just say he kept telling me that after I had been with Greg he always felt cheated and felt he needed to EVEN THE SCORE. He attempted trips back home, but to my knowledge no SEX happend. I told him I wanted to get married and 2 years of living together was plenty, but he still left me by myself and told me he had to see and went back home to see some OLD girldfriends. Well, I was a loose cannon and went to see GREG, yeah I bet you guessed what happend right. I felt in the right though, and was scared that I would be out in the streed when hubby to be came back home from his trip. I felt anxious and always worried that we were about to break up, but over the 2 years of living together I got MORE AND MORE dependent on him money wise as well as emotionally dependent. I was always scarred that he would be with other women even though I had not even really spoken with other men in 1.5 years.

He just kept on saying, we will get married at the end of PICK ONE WINTER SPRING SUMMER FALL. The months came and went with fights and then love but never marriage. I did not know where to go and I always felt like my living situation could end in a second. I had no family support and I was living alone in Hawaii when we met, so I knew I could not afford Hawaiian living if he were to decide to end the relationship.

Time went on some more and finally I started getting violent and abusive. I felt betrayed and I had felt that I stood by him now for 2 years. Yes we had bumps in the road but my health was going downhill and I was paying 1000s of dollars for blood tests and thyroid tests that I could not afford.

This whole time I had remained sexual with him. I never said no, and I often was the one who wanted sex. I know now that I was using the only thing I thought I had out of fear. We FINALLY got married. He did not tell his family, because they did not agree with the marriage and just wanted us to stay living together for another year or so...His mother always quoted the bible to me and I never understood why she would have been so willing to push NO marriage but living together. I felt the whole family could care less if I ended up in the gutter after we finally broke up. So when we got married he kept it a secret. We had a few issues at the beginning, but to fastforward to where we are now.

He told me over this past year that he was going to be open and honest with me for good. That he wanted a loving marriage and that he is sooooo sorry for what happned in the past. He was glad to married to me and he wanted to stay that way. He pretty much became a FANTASTIC husband to say the least. All the potiential I saw in him came out and I was glad I had went through all the drama for us to be married and so close.

Finally just this last month he started acting kind of strange and of course I picked up on it. I confronted him and at first he lied and lied and lied, but then he started telling me that he had called a girl(a stripper who 3 years ago he had a one night stand with)and had been saying to himself how easy it would be to cheat on me when he is on night duty(army) He also emailed a few times some ex girlfriends an told them how hard the marriage was. I don't think he has cheated, but it is hard to say. He says one thing and then another. I know when he was calling the stripper he would tell me he was just running to the store, and probably returned with a flower for me and then we had sex complete with his I love yous and all the emotional stuff. I feel sick.

Now that he has come clean(I really doubt it is all the way clean) He read the MB books and answered the q and a sheets I printed out and is all willing to talk about everything and how he wants to be a better man for me and start telling the truth because he could never divorce me. I got mad and abusive. I was upset and I don't think I can believe him because he has said this all before. He also was saying things like I emailed such and such like 6 months ago ect. Well today I asked him point blank for his email address and he was emailing ex sex partners not even girlfriends in last month. So after all of this honesty stuff he pulls out on me, he still continues to lie. I don't know what to do. I can't concentrate on my school work, I can't believe that I have to just put up with a man like this. I don't work and he is putting me through school via distance education so my friends are few and far between. Thank god for my brother and my mother. Brother lives with me so he has been a help.

I feel so trapped like I have to get away. Each time he preaches FOR HOUR AFTER HOUR about how he wants to be honest to me, and then these little lies I find out and it makes me think he is manipulating me. Understand he said he called these women because he blames me about GREG. I feel like I can say nothing excpet that was a different time, a time of no marriage and a time of him saying he wanted other women. I am wondering if he is just manipulating the situation and claiming hurt and insecurity to appeal to my gentle side that is impressed with his honesty and softened by his boyishness. So I get softened and think we have breakthoughs, both of us crying and upset telling THE TRUTH. It is not the truth because it seems he will lie no matter what. He is out in the field now for a week and I don't trust him and it is driving me crazy. I often just put guilt on myself and feel bad for loving Greg 2 years ago when hubby wanted NOTHING to do with me. I don't know, am I responsible for was is happening now? I never lied to hubby. I HAVE NEVER LIED. I tell him about EVERYTHING I think and feel even if it means I can't manipulate him in the long run, I tell. He says I just tell him to hurt him, but that is not true, I tell because it is the truth. I think he keeps lies because he wants a wife and than wants to play around. This playing around flirting and setting up beach dates with other women is playing BIG TIME with fire. I feel the truth is just not possible with him..I don't know what to do when he says he feels like he can't tell me the truth, but I think that he should not be able to tell me he wants to have sex with some stripper that screwed him 3 years ago in hotel room maybe How could ANY man tell his wife this without her freaking out. He does not belong doing these things in the first place so that is why he can't tell me. He told me sometimes he wants his cake and wants to eat it too.

I am soooo sorry, I am ranting and raving, but I needed to tell my story. I am hurting and in a panic. I have no money and no where to go. My mom is there for me somtimes but not in a physical come visit me way. I don't know what to do. I am afraid I will continue being abusive with each lie that is told and we have to live in small base housing. Please help me.

Hello and welcome to MB.

Believe it or not, I actually read all of your post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Whether or not your H has sexually 'cheated' on you (and I believe he has, the probability of him NOT cheating is astronomically small), he has been unfaithful to you. Have you read enough of the MB material to know about Emotional Affairs (EAs) and Physical Affairs (PAs)? Which it is really doesn't matter in the long run, because the damage to the marriage is just as deep and real with both.

Your H seems to want to punish you for Greg. First of all, YOU WERE NOT MARRIED TO HIM DURING THIS TIME. If he wanted you to be faithful, he should have gotten off his a...butt and married you. He was 'cake-eating' or 'living it up'. It is not your H's place to punish you for anything, and this is abusive behavior. He is not your parent, guardian, or authority figure. If it bothered him that much, he shouldn't have married you. My advice to him is to get over it already. How many years has it been?

You speak of yourself getting abusive. What does this mean? Have you read the book 'Love Busters'? If not, buy it immediately and read the whole thing. Live it, memorize it, love it. Also get 'Surviving an Affair' - you need it more, actually.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Each time he preaches FOR HOUR AFTER HOUR about how he wants to be honest to me, and then these little lies I find out and it makes me think he is manipulating me. Understand he said he called these women because he blames me about GREG. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First of all, a WS (Wayward Spouse - aka the cheating spouse) will tell you anything and everything to justify their behavior. Don't believe any of it. It is a choice he made, and it is not your fault.

Telling you he is going to be honest isn't enough. Trust is not given it is earned. So, he needs to earn it by repeatedly telling you independently verifiable truths. This is what earns trust. (BTW, you should never fully trust your spouse, but that's another post.) So, if he's serious, ask him how he is going to insure your protection and safety by making sure that you always have the truth. Not the 'truth' as he defines it and wants you to hear. This includes things like:

1.) giving you all his voicemail and email passwords, and access to check it.
2.) giving you his cellphone bill as soon as it comes - ALL of it
3.) giving you his schedule and contact numbers so that you can verify where he is (and being there when you call - which you should)

Is he willing to do these things? Is he willing to put his money where his mouth is, or is it just all talk?

BTW, you shouldn't put it to him this way. Give a 'thoughtful request' about it and see what he says. Then begin 'respectful persuasion'. If he still doesn't agree - THEN YOU HAVE YOUR ANSWER. He's not willing to be honest and he's hiding something. Oh, he will make excuses like 'you don't trust me' and 'privacy' to explain it. Don't believe it.

This is taken from an article by Dr. Harley. I've included a link to this article.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For an unfaithful spouse to engage in an affair without detection, two separate lives must be created, one for the lover and one for the spouse. A certain amount of dishonesty is required in both of them, but the major deception is with the spouse.

So one of the most common clues of an affair is an unwillingness to let a spouse investigate all aspects of life. If two lives are necessary for an affair, and if a spouse is curious enough, the secret second life is relatively easy to discover. Difficulty in getting a spouse to talk about events of the day can be a sign of trying to hide the second life.

One of the most common smoke-screens used by unfaithful spouses is to express shock that their spouse would be so distrusting as to ask questions about their secret second life. They try to make it seem as if such questions are an affront to their dignity, and a sign of incredible disrespect. They figure that the best defense is a good offense, and so they try to make their spouses feel guilty about asking too many questions.

I am a firm believer in letting each spouse do as much snooping around as they want. Nothing should be kept secret in marriage, and no questions should be left unanswered. If a spouse objects to such scrutiny, what might he or she be hiding?

...

We are all wired to have an affair. We can all fall in love with someone of the opposite sex if that person meets one of our emotional needs. If you don't think it can happen to you because of your conviction or will-power, you are particularly vulnerable to an affair. And if you think your spouse would never have an affair, you are also vulnerable.

Look what happened to poor Kathy Lee Gifford. She stated publicly and wrote in one of her books that she trusted her husband completely, that he would never cheat on her. But she should not have trusted her husband. If she would have taken the steps she is now taking to help him avoid another affair, the first would never have taken place, and she would have avoided all its pain and embarrassment. I don't trust my wife completely and she doesn't trust me, and that's why neither of us have ever had an affair. Lack of trust does not make spouses paranoid and miserable, it makes their marriages safe.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Coping with Infidelity: Part 2 - How Should Affairs End?

I suggest you read up thoroughly on LBs before you attempt to talk to your H. Practice avoiding them.

<small>[ August 12, 2003, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]</small>

Takola,

Thank you so much for the reply. When I say I get abusive it is physical. I am verally abusive as well. When I feel lied to and my life or at least near future is based on what he tells me I have a habit of having this switch just go of and I push and shove and I am extremmly nasty. I honestly have tried to control myself(and please don't think that I am a husband beater, this has only happned 3-4 times in the 3 years that we have been together, but I am disgusted with myself everytime. I see just how far I HAVE NOT COME, and realize that this is not the best position for me to be in at this time since I can't handle it like an adult.

I wonder at 2 of your points.
1. How is that that you think cheating is a give in on his part, and how can that thought in my mind without the truth not drive me insane?

2. Why should I never completly trust my spouse? I have thought that when a married couple is together things like trust HAVE to be a part of the marriage, if that was not the case even married people would preach safe sex. I need to feel totally at ease, or at least make myself believe that I am in order to have sex with an Army officer that goes to the highest STD ridden countries in the world.

I have a few of the books because the chaplain gave them to us, but if he won't agree to be honest, I feel that each time we talk and he answers the questions and talks and shares just around the corner is another incidental that he forgot about. That destroys me all the more.

One thing I wanted to add to my above post is that my husbands mother a very God fearing women, just shared with him that for the first decade of her marriage that my husbands father cheated on her many many times..She see nothing wrong with it because she said a man will be a man, she has made it work for 22 years so she has all the answers. I had him call her for advice and basicly she just says I(the woman) need to love him no matter what and just mature in the marriage and then things will work out, regardless of his actions reagarding fidelity. He says he does not want this input from his mother, and he does not believe his actions are OK. OH and again, he wants to be a better man for me and for us. I have this hanging over my head, and I often feel it is my fault but as I said above, I sometimes think he uses this against me so he can be content in his doubts and/or lies. He is very passive/aggressive in his behaviour, saying things in tears that while he won't cheat on me HE feels cheated. I don't know why I feel so bad when he does this, but it certainly takes the focus off him.

I am going to try with the MB principles but how do you deal with a spouse who will not tell the truth. It is like he wants to control me with lies. I always feel like this typical wife(female). What's good for the goose is not good for the gander. I hate the feeling that deep down he may think he has more rights to freedom and infidelity than I do...It burns me up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Thank you so much for the reply.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are welcome.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When I say I get abusive it is physical. I am verally abusive as well.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have to stop this. NOW.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When I feel lied to and my life or at least near future is based on what he tells me I have a habit of having this switch just go of and I push and shove and I am extremmly nasty.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't care why. Don't do it. You have no right to do it, and you have no justification to do it. None. It isn't his fault - it's yours.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I honestly have tried to control myself(and please don't think that I am a husband beater, this has only happned 3-4 times in the 3 years that we have been together, but I am disgusted with myself everytime.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You sound like my H when he was justifying his abusiveness. You CAN control it, you just chose not to. Every command sent by you to your limbs and mouth pass through your brain. It is all controlled by your brain. The first step you need to take is to take responsibility for your actions. You do it and you choose to. I have a link for you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 1. How is that that you think cheating is a give in on his part, and how can that thought in my mind without the truth not drive me insane?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not understanding the question here. Are you asking why I say that he is cheating?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why should I never completly trust my spouse?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because we are all pre-wired to have an affair, especially when our ENs aren't being met. Have you read Surviving an Affair, Love Busters, or His Needs Her Needs? It's all explained in there. The infidelity Q/A that I linked you to also explains it all.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have thought that when a married couple is together things like trust HAVE to be a part of the marriage, if that was not the case even married people would preach safe sex.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are more likely to have an affair in your marriage than you are to divorce. Your chances of divorce are already 50/50. A certain amount of trust is necessary in a marriage, but you should never completely trust. Haven't you already learned why?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I need to feel totally at ease, or at least make myself believe that I am in order to have sex with an Army officer that goes to the highest STD ridden countries in the world.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't want to scare you too badly, but Harley THANKS the military and airlines for keeping him in business. Yes, he specifically says that in the book 'Love Busters'.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> That destroys me all the more. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've BTDT (Been there done that), and trust is hard to rebuild. I've posted to you the means to do it. YES, I do check my H's email. The day I can't is the day we need to have a serious talk.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> One thing I wanted to add to my above post is that my husbands mother a very God fearing women, just shared with him that for the first decade of her marriage that my husbands father cheated on her many many times..She see nothing wrong with it because she said a man will be a man, she has made it work for 22 years so she has all the answers.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> God fearing woman that sees nothing wrong with adultry? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Whatever. I'll keep the rest of my reaction to myself. BTW, I am a Christian.

The sooner you can get his mother the H3!! out of your relationship, the better. There is a section in 'Love Busters' about this. She is biased, obviously doesn't know how to work a healthy, mutually satisfying relationship (based on her marriage history), and is simply going to make things worse. She's going to help your H justify his behavior.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I had him call her for advice and basicly she just says I(the woman) need to love him no matter what and just mature in the marriage and then things will work out, regardless of his actions reagarding fidelity. He says he does not want this input from his mother, and he does not believe his actions are OK.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good. Then NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER call her for advice again. Don't tell her about the situation. Keep her out of it - she won't help.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> OH and again, he wants to be a better man for me and for us. I have this hanging over my head, and I often feel it is my fault but as I said above, I sometimes think he uses this against me so he can be content in his doubts and/or lies.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IF YOU BEAT HIM DOWN TOO MUCH IT WILL JUST MAKE HIM GIVE UP BECAUSE HE WILL BELIEVE HE CAN NEVER SUCCEED. Do you want this? If you say yes, you had better be so sure you are willing to bet your marriage on it - because you ARE.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He is very passive/aggressive in his behaviour, saying things in tears that while he won't cheat on me HE feels cheated. I don't know why I feel so bad when he does this, but it certainly takes the focus off him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">His feelings are important, and you should explore them with him, validate them (validation and agreement are different), and listen. This does not mean you should give up your own boundries.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am going to try with the MB principles but how do you deal with a spouse who will not tell the truth.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You must first create an environment where he is SAFE to tell the truth. He is not safe right now. You admit to abusive behavior. How is this encouraging him to tell the truth? Get rid of your LBs now and for good. They are contributing to his dishonesty.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It is like he wants to control me with lies. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He does. And you want to control him through Angry Outbursts. Vicious cycle. It's time YOU put a stop to your part in the cycle.

I have some links for you that I am going to look up.

In the meantime, realize that his decision to have an affair was his own bad judgement and not your fault. HOWEVER, your LBs and his unmet ENs are your responsibility. They contribute to the state of the relationship that allows an affair to occur.

<small>[ August 12, 2003, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]</small>

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