Hi <P>I've been having a really tough time lately. In fact, I rarely post because I'm just too down to communicate. New counselor thinks H has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which opens up a whole world of new issues to deal with, and even then, counselor has no idea when or if H will ever get any better in his interpersonal dealings.<P>We have weekly contact with OW because of visitation schedule, and every time I see her for pickup/dropoff of OC, it's heart-wrenching for me. H works on Saturdays most of the time, so on our every-other-weekend visitations, I get to spend the day alone with OC babysitting until H gets home about 4 PM. This after a full week of work. (OW doesn't work, by the way.) Also, son who is away at college refuses to accept OC, so he stays away. <P>I get a "I'm-doing-everything-I-can-to-rebuild-this-marriage..." speech from H every time I hint that perhaps he may be taking advantage of me. OW calls most of the shots re:visitation, and H lets her, although he would deny that fact. <P>My relationship w/H is cordial and friendly, and the horrible fights have diminished in number and intensity. But the passion is gone and has been replaced by an underlying sense of suspicion and 'walking on eggshells." H is a bigtime conflict avoider and accepts very little responsibility for anything. When I talked to my counselor about all the DISadvantages our marrige has for me, I commented "I don't even know why I'm still with this man." Counselor said, "That's a question most people who knew any details of this situation would ask. Why are you?"<P>I said, "because I love him, and we've been together nearly 27 years." He said "But why? Do you respect him for the good man he is? Does he bring your life meaning and joy? Do share hopes and dreams? Why do you LOVE him? You know, I can't answer that question. I know that our marriage keeps both parents together for our 2 kids, even though they are both grown men now: one a senior in college and the other one older and married. I know we've shared a lots of life experiences, most of them good. But I also know that for several in the mid-late '90s, he carried on a physical and emotional affair that produced a child. Narcissism would certainly explain HOW and WHY he did that, but it does not offer me much solace or understanding about the distance between us now.<P>I could have retired from my current professionin 4 or 5 years (as was our original plan)( and pursued another areas of interest. But now, I get to continue working since support payments, etc, take over half his income. I'll be 71 when support obligation ends. Hows that for the "golden years"?<P>I'm sorry to unload. Sounds like I'm giving myself quite a pity party today, doesn't it? But after 2.5 years since DDay #1, 1.5 years after DDay #2 (fog? couldn't stay away from her) I had hoped to be feeling better.<P>love, anniem<BR>

anniem. I feel for you. I am not sure what to say to you, except I think you deserve a pity party and it is o.k to feel as you do. I know I cannot accept OC at all, the fact you can is amazing.The fact you accept OC and babysit her while H is at work is amazing to me-but I am worried.The fact you say babysit makes me think you do not have much of an emotional connection with the child-and I am not criticizing that-then why do you do it? Why hurt yourself more? What are you getting out of it? I feel for your sons, too.My H, although having no contact with OC now due to my strong feelings on it, believes if he told our kids,a ges 8and 4, they would eventually accept him and still love him. I hear how even grown up kids refuse contact with OC-how my H believes our kids would not be harmed by this knowledge escapes me, but I refuse to take the chance and am not telling them anything now. We will be in our 60's when CS payments are over, too. I know what you mean about work. I recently had thought of quitting work-we could have lived on H's income but now with CS it makes me too financially nervous for my and kid's future to do that. You are in my thoughts. I hope feelings get better.Have you thouht of therapy for yourself?

anniem,<BR>So sorry to hear your haveing such a terrible time still. What is Narcissistic Personality Disorder? I would start living my life for me and do what you have to do that makes you feel good. You need to love yourself first. Cant the ow drop the child off after your h gets home? I think I would be feeling pretty used also. I dont know what more to say other then I'm sorry. with love flowerseed<BR>

NPD is basically pysch-talk for "extremely selfish and self-centered"...<P> <P>

K,<BR>My h had that disorder real bad before all this. There is a cure its call not laying down and allowing yourself to be used as a doormatt. A good friend told me once you get what you put up with. It works for me. with love flowerseed

anniem,<BR>I'm so sorry for your sad situation. You have some tough decisions.<BR>Prayers,<BR>J

anniem,<P>i am sorry for the pain you are in right now. you need to do what is going to make you happy. if you aren't happy being married anymore, and don't feel that your H is giving the marriage 110%, then it will be hard to make the marriage work. it isn't fair for one person to be doing all the giving and the other just taking. you seem to be doing all the giving, and he all the taking.<P>i know this is a tough decision. but i think it is important to say that it is okay to "walk away". you gave your best, and if you feel that it is what you need to do, then my prayers are with you. if you feel that there is hope, and want to stay. my prayers for you also. but look into yourself. do you want to spend the rest of your life this way? it is so unfair, but sometimes, the damage done by an affair is irreparable. especially when both parties aren't completely committed to recover.<P>i also think that if babysitting the OC is so painful for you, that you shouldn't do it. i don't think you should let yourself be hurt anymore than you already are. you tried to accept OC, and it has proven to be more painful than you should have to endure.<P>my thoughts and prayers for you. <P>happy_girl

anniem I feel bad for you. I also find it interesting your grown c's have no desire to know baby.<P>My H keeps at my son to "know his flesh and blood". Son may someday. I told him I'd never hold it against him. Son said not now. He doesn't feel for baby. Only feels sorry it's here. May never want to meet it. His GF said when they get married and have babies she does not want their C's knowing about "uncle" who will be close to their babies age. Too hard to explain and just immoral.<P>anniem you deserve happiness and/or peace too. Please search your mind and I know deep down YOU know what is right for you. We only have one life on earth sweetie.<P>Look at me. Both decisions are horrible.(to leave or stay). The LESS painful is to leave. Remove myself from all the lies. Not to mention oc. But it still hurts. And it hurts bad. <P>I will be ok someday.<P>You will too. You have to decide what you can and can't deal with.<P>Prayers to you.<P>Love,<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Anniem<P>Like everyone has said, Sorry for your troubles. But like "happy_girl" said, Why put up with it.<P>Your kids are grown, out on thier own, you have no baby home. <BR>Do something for you! Develop a NDP personality and take a weekend vacation. Get to know the person inside of you. Like I learned, take control of the situation or it will take control of you.<P>Also, put your foot down concerning the oc, I have accepted the oc's but I would be hesitate about keeping them.<P>God Loves you and you loves you.<P>G&P<BR>

Anniem... I am just so very moved by what you are posting. I know that I was asked by counselor & by my lawyer several times about "why are you trying so hard?". It was obvious to both of them that there was something wrong in this marriage that extended well beyond the affair. My H is also a very self-centered person. NPD was used to describe him also. One of those things that is a benefit in some situations (work being one) but destructive to a relationship. So I finally had to really ask myself very hard questions about why I was staying with him. I do not feel passion for him, nor have I for some time. His selfish demands stomped that out a long time ago. I have been a cook, maid, financial partner, raised his children (both of our sons and his D by first marriage). What I have gotten out of this is hard to quantify. Friendship? Not really. Friends don't do each other this way. Respect? Nope. Domestic assistance? Nope... I do all that plus more. Fix tings, put bikes together, etc. So what is it that I get out of this? All I could come up with is that I provide a two parent household for my boys (7 & 8). But one of those parents is never around, doesn't attend church with us, seldom goes to school functions, attends very few ball games, etc. (This is so depressing writing this down). <P>So, to wrap this up.... I finally admitted that I really got very little out of my marriage to my H. So finally one day someone (once again) asked me "Why are you doing all this? Why are you there?". And I started thinking. Harder than I had ever thought on this. And it boils down to the fact that I really didn't expect anyone to love me. I allowed this because I expected so little for me. And it was nearly impossible for me to interupt my childrens lives (with divorce) even though staying in the marriage gave them very little. In fact, I wondered what staying might actually teach my boys about how a man and a woman should behave in a marriage. Would they ever see the things that I wanted them to learn? Respect for their future wives? Passion? Partnership? I had to say "no, they wouldn't". My H just cannot be a different persion than he is. And when I met him, I expected so little for myself that I was willing to just "fit in" and be the housekeeper, mother, etc. He was with me because I am the type of person that I am. This is really not very good.<P>So I am going ahead with divorce. Maybe one day my H will start to change. Not just quit the affair and dela with OC in an appropriate manner. But really change about his self centered ways and be willing to act like a partner. And I am going to change also. I am going to respect me a little more and acknowledge that I am worth being loved. <P>One last thing (yes... this is a long post). A few weeks ago I was at a lecture and the speaker talked about various definitions of love, spirituality, etc. One thing struck me very hard. He stated that one definition of of love is "the willingness to have your life interrupted". I thought so very long and hard on that, since it really sort of sums it up. A mother "loves" a newborn and allows her life to be interrupted. Teenagers are all too willing to be whatever another teenager wants them to be in an effort to gain "love". But when that "love" becomes too much of an interruption of their own wants & desires, well... on to the next boyfriend or girfriend. The concept really fits in most every situation that love is basically a willingness to have our lives interrupted. These folks with NPD have a real hard time with that. <P>I am taking care of me a little better these days. And from now on, I am going to be accepting of the concept that I am worthy of someone else having THEIR life interrupted by my wants and needs. I am going to be willing to be loved. This should be a very different world for me. Please take good care of you. My best wishes and hopes for you in your examination of your own life and what you need, want and deserve. <P>Carolyn

Hey Anniem,<P> I suffer from acute dipsh*t syndrome!( sorry)<P><BR> Think of it this way, if your very best friend were in your situation, how would you advise her.<P> I'm sorry you're in such pain, you are in my prayers.<P> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

Ahhh Gregg.... so well put.<P>Carolyn

Dear Anniem,<P>Just want to lend my support to you.<BR>I am sorry you are in this kind of pain.<BR>You are in my thoughts and prayers.<BR>Take care, fluke

Dear anniem,<P>Glory&Praise had a wonderful suggestion... why not go away for a vacation by yourself. Give yourself time to get in touch with your feelings and feel what your heart and mind really wants you to do?<P>If you left for a short time, it might also force your H to start thinking seriously about what his role should be in your marriage.<P>We all know what you are going through... it's a long painful journey. You are in my prayers.<P>love,<BR>heavenly

WHEN WE DECIDED TO HAVE COTACT WITH OC. MAINLY I SET UP THE THINGS. I HAD TO DO WHAT WILL MAKE ME COMFORTABLE.<P>1.WE MADE OUR OWN VISITATIONS SCHEDULES NOT OW.<BR>2.MY H AND I SET OUT HOW MUCH WE WOULD GIVE HER A<BR> MONTH SINCE SHE DID NOT TAKE H FOR CS. <BR>3.WHEN H HAS HER HE DOES EVERYTHING(BATHING,FEEDING GETTING UP IN THE NIGHT ETC.<BR>4.WE BOTH PICK UP AND DROP OFF.<P>THE REASON FOR H DOING WHAT WAS STATED IN #3 IS BECAUSE THIS TEACHES HIM THAT IF YOU WERE MAN ENOUGH TO LAY UP WITH SOMEONE WITHOUT PROTECTION THEN YOU WILL BE FULLY RESPONSIBLE FOR TAKING CARE OF THIS OC.<P>ALSO I AM NOT GOING TO LET HIM USE ME.<BR>I TOLD HIM IF HE HAS TO WORK ON WEEKENDS LET THE OW KNOW THAT YOU WILL NOT BE GETTING HER FOR THE WEEKEND. I AM NOT BABYSITTING.

anniem, how are you doing? I was hoping to see you post more on this. Obviously this is a situation that is very close to mine with self-centered H.<P>Carolyn