The POJA is made for exactly this type of situaiton, lsb. If you and your husband have agreed to the POJA---then he won't be visiting the child for now. It's not "enthusiastically supported" by you.<P>But he should be allowed to ask you if you've changed your mind in a year.<P>If he's unwilling to live by the POJA (and I'd ask him about this), then I'd advise you to have him be honest with you about any contact with the OC or OW. And you can do what you need to, based on the infomation you're getting from him. Remember---to encourage honesty, you cannot react to it with lovebusters.

Would just like to get some feedback from people who are choosing no contact with OC. How did you get to that place? I went back to the "where are we all at" post and realized almost everyone who responded to this post have accepted OC into life, except for catnip, and I think I--and husband-- may be getting a somewhat distorted viewpoint of how these things go for both partners involved. Actually, more people listed under "where we are all at" post have no contact than not. Please , I would appreciate your input. I know I need to put all this on back burner, let marriage heal over devastating affair and this whole OC issue, but would like to hear how you all came to OC no contact issue.Thanks.

lsb, we have no contact, but it is very different because my H has never wanted contact. his feeling is very clear, he did not want the child, he doesn't feel any emotional attachment to child, as far as he is concerned he was the sperm donor, and that is it. she planned the baby, has admitted to it. she must have thought it would make him decide to be with her. it was her last attempt at getting my H. i just think she wanted a PART of him. she hasn't asked him to be her child's dad ever. not once. she asks for money, and the last name.<P>i do agree that unless your H can embrace the POJA, it will be difficult. you need to be honest with him, which i am sure you have been, in that you don't feel you can handle contact with the OC. that doesn't make you a bad person!! just make sure he knows. our situation is so different because H wants no contact ever. OC is almost 4. never changed his mind even once. <P>my prayers for you. this is a tough spot to be in.<P>happy_girl

Dear lsb,<P>My H and I have no contact now -- but he wanted it very much in the beginning. Just like you, I was the one who refused, who raged, who said it would destroy our marriage. And so, because he loved me and did not want to put me through any more pain, nor did he want to lose me -- he sneaked behind my back to see the OC.<P>No big contact - once a month - just to make sure that she was okay and that she knew her father was around. When I found out I was livid. And again, I raged and roared, and cried "how could you do this to us?".<P>I was afraid, lsb, just like you. Afraid that he would love the OC and by loving her would continue to love the OW. I did not believe, in my heart, that his feeling for the OW were over. That is so natural, lsb. The OW is your worst nightmare come true -- she is the woman that actually took your H away from you! And, if she did it once, you fear that she can do it again.<P>Zebra hit the nail on the head -- she can't take him away again if he is getting what he needs from you. But the trick is, it must come from your heart out of a desire to "love him with his baggage" just like Zebra said. If you simply rattle off the litany of "I'll keep the house cleaner, I'll have sex with you more, I'll cook gourmet meals, I'll listen to you when you want to talk" - he will know that this is lip service and this is not coming from the place he needs it to come from -- your heart.<P>I understand if you honestly cannot at this time deal with OC, and your H should understand that too. But right now, he probably feels that he is giving up something he wants for the unknown. You need to make him understand that your marriage is back on track and that you are willing to do anything to make up for the inadequacies that led him to the A. <P>I agree completely with K, that even if you agree to "no contact" you should agree to revisit this issue again when you are feeling more confident and when your marriage has more time to stabilize. Right now, I agree with you that you need to deal with getting the marriage together before you can introduce any extraneous issues that will cause more disagreement.<P>Lsb, it was only sex and the OC is just a mistaken byproduct. Please don't read more into it than that. Your H is by your side, not hers. If he felt that he could not live without her then there is absolutely nothing you could say to make him stay with you. So, believe it or not, you have won in the sense that you still have your H's love, you still share his life, and together you share a family - having his body is a LOT less important. <P>love,<BR>heavenly

lsb:<P>I guess I was one of the "lucky" ones, if one of us could be considered lucky. My husband feels almost exactly as Happy Girl's husband does and OC contact was never an issue for us or a problem. We agreed on D-Day that there would never ever be any contact whatsoever and we would not burden our children with this knowledge, which is fairly easy for us because we live several states away. That's not to say that OW could become even more hateful and vindictive and blow the lid off this secret, but we are somewhat confident whe will not do this for a number of reasons. <P>Someday our kids could find out, or my husband's family or my family, but we'll cross that brifdge when and if we come to it. As a matter of fact, the more time passes by, the less neurotic we are about people finding out. It really has become a non-issue for some reason. Maybe because we are so busy just trying to survive and find our way back to making our family of origin stronger again after all that destruction.<P>Because of the court's aggressive witchhunt and their refusal to acknowledge our financial situation, believing we have far, far more than we do (when we really have nothing, nothing, nothing) and harassing us and making unreasonable demands of us and garnishing 70% of my husband's wages along with the OW phony OFP against me and her dragging my husband in court constantly demanding he be put in jail and his driver's license revoked, we have become less than inspired, lost any incentive we may have had, empathy or care regarding anything to do with OW or her situation. Her family is large and involved and the OC has a huge sense of family...such as it is.<P>Catnip =^^=

I am trying to create a nicer atmosphere here for H. We are both trying to be more sensitive to each other's needs, care more, etc. I am tryiing to be less angry as I realize that pushes him away. I am going to express the anger to self or on this site, but now that he reads the site, I may<BR>not do that here either. I have pledged to be less demanding in my talks with him, less angry. I am trying.<BR>But it is not easy for either of us. My husband at times can say some cruel things to me over seemingly inconsequential stuff, and it hurts me. I don't think he even hears himself at times, but it is a real love buster for me. Still, we persevere. I have suggested a time to get away by ourselves for two nights next month, we have not done that at all since having kids. It was my idea, we are seeing if we can do that. I thought it would be a way to reconnect and put our relationship first. I want to get new wedding rings to start afresh. I am trying.But I am still very pained by this all. Knowing he may still love her makes it hard for me, really hard to truly connect with him. he didn't willingly give her up, really, he stopped since he had to tell me and knew he couldn;t continue if I knew. The other woman also loved him, I think still does. Doesn't make me feel secure in his love for me at all. I had to beg him to stop contact in the beginning and even then he kind of put me down to OW when he asked her to just contact me if she needed to get a hold of us for any reason-told her to "ignore" me. That is supportive of me? I know I need to win his love back, and I guess I have to learn to love him all over again.What connects us is our children together, and we both love them alot. They are wonderful kids. But when I look at my lovely daughter, her smiling face, and realize her father lied to her too about the child, well, I am really pained. I have asked H to enter individual therapy to work a lot on his issues-I think there is much he has to process, but he is not a believer in therapy and although he comes weekly to couples counseling with me he just sees the money spent and really doesn't see it helps. I keep telling him it takes time, he wants instant results and doesn't like sharing his thoughts with a stranger. Has a hard time sharing thoughts with me too. I feel very worn out from all of this. I am still losing weight and am looking way too thin almost like a skeleton. I have a hard time eating, force myself to eat daily without any interest in food. This has really shattered who I am. I fear we will never resolve this issue and then we will be done. Greatly saddens me. Makes me worry about my kids. Worry about our life. I have asked H if he would move-doesn't see how since he is middle aged, needs to be in area where we live to get good job the other woman was in our home,slept with H <BR>here.it's like a trauma for me every time I walk in our home daily and sleep in our bed. H doesn't seem to understand why I no longer feel happy in our home. Why I am depressed on weekends when I have to spend so much time here.Why sometimes I can't sleep in the bed. Enough said. I am too tired to continue writing today, but wish the pain and agony of this all would stop. I am very tired of feeling depressed, sad, overwhelmed with sadness. When does it end?<p>[This message has been edited by lsb (edited June 27, 2001).]

When does it end? When you decide it will end.<P>Isb, I haven't got the same kind of pain that you have, and hope never to have it. But I also don't have my husband.<P>I have my up days and my down days. I miss him terribly, and still entertain hope that he will one day realize what he has lost. But I realized early on that I was the only one who could make me happy... And I was the one who controlled whether or not something that he said or did or didn't say or didn't do was going to hurt me. It wasn't so easy, but I MADE myself stop suffering. The support of others at MB has helped tremendously. And deciding that I would do what I needed to do to pick myself up, dust myself off and keep going forward was a major step.<P>I want to repeat that I think you could benefit a great deal from anti-depressant therapy in addition to your counselling. The only one you can fix is you. Your husband will have to fix himself.<P>Again, it is NOT fair. It sucks rocks and it should never happen to anyone. But it HAS happened - and the only thing you have any control over is HOW YOU DEAL WITH IT.<P>Right now, you are dealing with it by expecting your husband to behave in the way you think he should... and he may not be able to do that. Have you ever read "The Five Love Languages" by Dr. Gary Chapman? If not, I would heartily recommend it (to ANYONE - marital problems or not). Dr. Chapman has a "love tank" concept similar to Dr. Harley's "love bank" concept... and, while Chapman does recognize emotional needs, he also identifies the main "languages" which people use to express love and how they feel loved in return. It dovetails into the emotional needs idea, as well as the "Giver" and "Taker" concepts of Harley's books. And, for some people, it might be a simpler concept, or, at least, more acceptable.<P>Please don't give up yet. I know that I have no idea how you really feel ... but I do know how it feels to lose your husband completely to someone else when you still love him as much as your own life.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lsb:<BR> ISB,<BR> First thought is , why the hell haven't you taken that bed out back and choped it up and then burn it? I would sleep on the ground before i slept in a bed the Ow was in! You feel like your marriage will end if you don't agree to Oc involvement so maybe you will have to decide what you want more, your marriage or no contact. I don't feel anyone can force their hubby to never have contact if he really wants to he will either sneak or the fighting will get so bad he will leave. burn the BED!