Well H had his hearing yesterday for modification of health insurance, among other things. Unfortunately, she didn't show up with her lawyer/lover/keeper/p**p and asked for an adjournment which she got. Frustrating that H has to return and lose another day at work.<BR>I didn't go this time for a lot of reasons. But mainly because her image is not as clear as it was. I'd like to keep it that way.<BR>Anyway, I asked my H's sister to accompany him for support and to stick it to her. I also asked H not to wear his wedding ring so that the OP would not know who the "other woman" was and she would speak freely around her. <BR>H and sister didn't sit together and what a show. To start, OP brought OC. I guess she thought I was going to be there. There is no real reason in bringing her.<BR>At first SIL was emotional at seeing the child, but grew extremely angry with what OP was doing to her.<BR>OP again pointed out H and told OC "There's Daddy." H hasn't seen this 2 1/2 year old since Oct 2000 during the hearing for his order of protection against her and then 7 months prior to that. So this child can't recognize that H is daddy. <BR>At that point OC tried to go to H. H ignored the OC. Child would repeatedly say "That's Daddy" OP would then reply, to my H embarrassment, "Daddy doesn't want you" The OC would ask why, OP would just reply "I don't know why your daddy doesn't want you." Can anyone say mental abuse.<BR>OP even had the nerve to appraoch H and ask him why he brought her there. Thankfully, H just said, "Get away from me."<BR>After the hearing was postponed and H and SIL were outside, the OP was pretending to use a broken pay phone, and SIL said loudly, "This is what happens when you sleep with garbage like that. I don't know who she's trying tokid, that phone doesn't even work. I guess she's a bigger moron than I thought." Thanks SIL!!!! In addition, while in the waiting area, before OP knew who SIL was, SIL kept saying out loud, "So sad"<P>While I am upset that H has to return and face this creature, I will not be going again, I am glad SIL did what she did. <BR>Unless this OP is truly selfish and an idiot, even in regards to her children, she must realize that what she is doing to her child is chld abuse and it must hurt like hell. I know it would kill me to see my child being rejected by it's father, not once, but twice. You'd think she'd learn after the first time. OH, WELL. If she must hurt, then so be it. It's even more satisfying to know she's hurting from her own stupid actions. Feeling good right about now.....

The part I don't get is, if she's doing this mental abuse to the kid IN COURT, why don't they turn her in for it? Is that not "abusive" "enough"? I guess they see so much weirdness and worse every single day that it no longer matters, not my job, etc. Life is so yucky sometimes. I'm so sorry for your situation!<P>Blessings on your marriage,<BR>J

tormented, jenny,<P>We have all been on the street when an animal rights activist will curse at a woman wearing a fur, or a man that hits a dog.<P>But, children are openly abused on the street and even in front of legal authorities and no one does a damn thing about it. Unless someone brings up the charges, it is considered the parent's business what they do to their own child. <P>It is so sad what that child will have to go through. Tormented, good for your SIL - she did you proud!!!<P>love,<BR>heavenly

[QUOTE]Originally posted by heavenlybody26:<BR>[B]tormented, jenny,<BR> i may be of the minority but i think part of the abuse goes to the father at the court. I understand the family wants not contact but i think it would be better for the child if he hears from his father" yes, i am your father but i can not be a daddy to you right now but you have a mommy and family that does love you so go back to mommy." I am sorry if I step on anyone toes but i don't think ANY child deserves to be ignored. the mother oviously is being a b*&*^%& but you have to realize she is telling her child the truth and one day a VERY angry child is coming for answers. i just think things could of been handled a little more maturally all around.

I am sorry to say, butI got something different from this incident. The mother is using the child to help her deal with the bitterness she has for the father. It is so clear, how cruel of her to tell the baby "Daddy does not want you" Our ow told her 5 year old that his Daddy wants to met in now but he ran away from you when you were little. Which in part may be true, but my h did not even now his last name, address, ss# nothing. He only found out his last name his mothers when she filed for support. You can see he really had a lot of interest in her, not to even now her last name. That is what happens in a one night stand... My h is trying to build a relationship with the child, and that was not the appropriate thing to say, he had wanted her to tell him that my h lived far away and moved back. The ow was so concerned with the trama of the meeting, yet she was the one who told him a mean story when she could have told him a softer version. Why hurt a young child, it is so wrong and unfair. Just because adults have been hurt is no reason to bring the children down. I disagree with telling a two year old any of this he is still a baby and it is hurtful. Gabi1116

I have to agree with whatif on this one. I believe that is very cruel on both sides. Why can't we separate the OW from the OC. What she did was wrong, but the father was even worse. My heart goes out to that child. What kind of cold haerted person would ignore there own child. This should not be commended. There is no relationship with the OW right, so why sink to her level of immaturity and add the pain on. Are you really proud of your husband for his handling of a child?

Momhurting and whatif,<BR>I am not debating anyone's responses one way or another, but I am curious. What do you think tormented's husband *should* have done in that situation? I mean that as a sincere question. I'm not saying that ignoring the child was the best option, but I have been trying to come up with a "better" option, and as of yet I haven't been able to think of one. I honestly can't think of ANY reaction that would have been totally in the child's best interest, given the circumstances, and I'm betting that he couldn't think of one either. Can you?<P>I can, however, think of about a thousand better options for what the ow did. for example, not bringing the child into the courtroom to begin with, not purposely exposing the child to rejection, not using the child as a means to humiliate the father. The list goes on and on...<P>-cd

Cruelty is cruelty, regardless of who committed the first stupidity. The OW should have never exposed the child to such a situation, but MM could have been a little more merciful in his response to the child's innocent actions. It's one thing to decide on no contact for the whatever personal reasons, which you are perfectly entitled to, but the child, ANY child, deserves a little more consideration. I cannot believe the mother would allow her little one to endure something like this…and for WHAT?! I agree with the SIL. She is a moron! As for MM, it's not what he did, but how he did it. I just wish, for the child's sake, that it had been handled with a little more delicacy. It pains me to know of a child being mistreated as a result of bad blood between adults. The more I read and learn here, the more I feel for everyone. This is so tough to deal with. There really is no right answer.

Dear Ohbratti,<BR>I agree with you, but what way would you suggest MM could have handled it? Really, I am trying to think of what the "best case scenario" would be, and all I can come up with is him saying something dorky like "Hi Kiddo, better go back to your mommy now."<P>Your ever-inquisitive friend,<BR>Nosetta

CD,<P>I really don't know if there is a right way to handle such an awful scene…at least not for the child. OW deserves many, many different sorts of punishment for being so thoughtless and cruel to her own child. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how someone who calls themselves a mother would deliberately subject their child to such a debilitating rejection. Maybe if MM had removed himself from the situation before it could escalate. Distancing himself from OW/OC until the hearing was over sounds simple, but effective. I know that some court rooms are not very large, but…oh, I don't know. It just breaks my heart when I picture this whole scene going down. I don't really fault the father for reacting to the OW's manipulations. I would love nothing more than to skin her, strip by painful strip, with my own nails. I would never allow my son to be put in the middle of something like that. It's my job to protect him, not cause him harm. A child that age should NOT be in a courtroom, for whatever reason. More importantly, knowing that it could be a volatile environment that could be detrimental to the child, why the hell would the mom want OC there?! It just makes me furious. The OC is not her sacrificial lamb.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by ohbratti1 (edited May 11, 2001).]

Hey CD,<BR>That is a hard question to answer, but I think we all talk about the best interest of the child and that is what we should think about. I think it would have been better if he had at least said something to the child, even if it was just what you said. Think if that was your child and someone especially the father ignored them like that. When I read that I almost wanted to cry. We don't blame and ignore children when they are physically abuse by there parents. We don't heap them in the same catagory as the parents, by saying that there parents are scum so forget the child. God this post made me so sad. You know you can't control peoples actions, but you can control your own. The H in the situation might not have control of the stupid woman, but how can you act like that to your own flesh and blood, much less a child. Question would you ignore a strangers child if they were trying to talk to you. No you wouldn't, you would say something cute to it. If you did ignore the child people would look at you like you are a monster, now imagine if that is your own flesh and blood. CD, I really don't have the answer but all this just makes me sick and sad. <P>Ohbratti1 - I agree with what you say completely. I would not want my child or any child in that situation.

I think that my H acted appropriately. OP knew that the OC would not be responded to. she knew this from the last time she pulled this stunt. She brought her to hurt me. Unfortunately for her I chose not to go.<BR>H also has an order of protection against her for this very reason. She keeps using the OC as a pawn.<BR>I do not think H had any other choice. Addressing the OC would only confuse her further. H knows he will not be a part of the OC life, why acknowledge his biological relation to a 2 year old who has not seen him for almost a year. It was the OP who chose to point out this man as "Daddy" The OC does not know him from Adam. <BR>My H also removed himself from the waiting room so that the OC would not be hurt further by her "mother's" stupidity. However OP continued to push the OC into callling for him.<P>Unfortunately, because the hearing was postponed, H was unable to address the OP behavior (and its abusive nature). He will however be bringing it up at the next hearing and at the review of his order of protection.<P>While I don't believe any child should have to suffer any of the actions of their biological mother and father, I believe that my H is thinking of the best interest of the child. He has no connection and has chosen to not be a part of its life. That is his choice and I respect that. I see it as I would a mother giving their child up for adoption. Mothers are given this choice. He has made his. Because of this choice, it makes sense that he did not address the child in any form. It would have served no purpose, other than to make the OP feel like her immature and insensitive actions were justified.<BR>It was the OP choice to have a child out of wedlock with a MM who clearly told her he would have no part in that life. It was her choice to subject her child, for a second time, to rejection. What reaction did she expect? What reaction would any one expect? The OP, once again, is misguided and selfish.<BR>What confuses me is that she is now living with her "lawyer" and I'm sure that he knew what she was going to do. How sad that this OC and her sibling (another OC) are now being raised by two selfish and ignorant people.<P>Can you imagine what must have been going through her mind as she drove home? Not only did she subject her child to rejection, she was rejected again. <P>

My point is that, why focus on OP. Why do you let this woman influence your every waking moment. I think the best revenge is to move on and be happy. Focus on the child, not what the OP would get out of it. My point is that your husband is with you, why are you worried what this person is going to do or influence to your husband. If the man is committed to you then that is wonderful, but please don't harden your heart to an innocent. He does have a connection and an obligation, he brought thid human being to this world. I didn't say for him to have contact, but at least talk to the child. I asked the question, if a stranger child did talked to you would you ignore that child?

My goodness, how sad. Poor little kid. What kind of person would do that to any child, much less their own. I didn't really understand what this court thing was about...modification. Got that. But why didn't anything happen? Who didnt show?<P>Love and Prayers<P>broken_wings

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cdcollins:<BR>[B]Momhurting and whatif,<BR>I am not debating anyone's responses one way or another, but I am curious. What do you think tormented's husband *should* have done in that situation? I mean that as a sincere question.<BR> I believe I answered that in my reply I think the father should have said something along the lines of"I am your father but i can not be a daddy to you but you have a mommy and a whole family that loves you so go back to your mommy now."

whatif, that does sound like a nice thing to say and might help an older child but this is all waaay over the head of a 2yo. With such ignorant behavior on the mother's part, what good is anything else going to be? This is the twisted person who will raise him/her--too sad.

Hey guys,<P> Why was the child there? For what purpose? We, as adults, are supposed to protect children from this agony!<BR> Again, why was the child there?<P><BR> God bless you, <P>------------------<BR>Gregg

H was in court for modification regarding the health insurance. He has been submitting applications, but because he is not the custodial parent, the applications are considered incomplete. The agencies, with my H request, send notice to OP that an application has been submitted for the child and they need her info. She does not comply, but continues to have medical bills sent to our home (with the child using the wrong name, no less). I can't explain her logic.<BR>Her layer, oops lawyer/lover/roommate/???? didn't show up. The judge granted postponement until July. Another tactic? I don't know.<BR>Why was the child there? I can't think of any sensible answer. The only one that I can think of is that OP thinks her selfish actions affect us, the adults, moe than her 2 year old. <BR>

tormented,<P>so sorry you have gotten blasted from what is supposed to be a <I>support</I> forum. i am also sorry you couldn't have been here in the good old days when the forces of evil weren't here. when you weren't judged by whether you were involved in OC's life or not. where there were no little OC or no OC cliques. where you came for support and got it, then gave back. <P>your H did nothing wrong. he had no obligation to play the OW's childish games. you have my prayers.<P>happy_girl<p>[This message has been edited by happy_girl (edited May 12, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by happy_girl:<BR><B>tormented,<P>so sorry you have gotten blasted from what is supposed to be a [i]support[i/] forum. i am also sorry you couldn't have been here in the good old days when the forces of evil weren't here.(qoute)<BR> I certainly do not concider myself a source of evil. Why would you say that beacause my heart breaks for the INNOCENT CHILD! Yes the mother was being a bit%^% by bringing the child and pointing the father out but the father was wronge too. <BR> when you weren't judged by whether you were involved in OC's life or not. where there were no little OC or no OC cliques. where you came for support and got it, then gave back. (quote) <BR> I have never bashed anyone for not being involved in the OC's life. I said i myself could never respect MY husband if he wasn't involved but it was a decision that each family had to make. I have stated my opinions on the Oc saying I believe the children should be told by parents if their is a chance others will find out. I can not tell someone what they should or should not live with. i have posted that if a person decides they can can not have any OC involvement that is all the have to say they should not have to feel like they need to justify their decision. i resent the fact that it seems like i have to justify why i belive it is best for OC involvment. i did not bash the original poster, i said i felt like the father was wronge also.<BR>happy_girl</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>