tormented,<BR>I just wanted you to know that I second what happy just said your h did nothing wrong mine would have did the same thing. There is no reason your h should have did anything any diffrent, if he would have he would be playing the sickos games. A 2 yr old that has never had a daddy is not even going to know what that means. I am sorry also that this support group that we use to have seems to be gone. with love flowerseed

Hey tormented,<P> Don't know what's going on here, guess I have a different user name now?????<P> <P> Anyway, I did not mean to point the finger at you. I was asking why OW brought the child to the hearing. (Obviously, to put you and H in the very uncomfortable situation you found yourselves in!) I'm sorry I didn't make this clear. <P> Shame on OW for using this poor child for manipulative purposes!!<P> Again, tormented, given the situation, you and your H have nothing to be sorry for. Sorry for giving the wrong impression! (I seem to have a knack for that!)<P> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

whatif?,<P>by forces of evil, i meant the OW's that have been here of late. i don't have a problem with people who have contact with OC. i just don't like people that are constantly trying to throw punches at those of us who don't have contact or have H's that wish no contact, or those who aren't able to have contact with OC. i feel for the people lurking who don't have contact and are probably afraid to post for fear of being chastised. <P>this place used to be safe for everyone, and now it isn't. it is only safe if you are in favor of, or have contact with OC. that to me is SAD.<P>happy_girl<P><BR>gregg~ what's up with the name change?? and what are you talking about? you just asked why the child was there? i was talking about those blasting her H for not talking to the child. even though you have fully accept OC, i have NEVER seen you treat those of us with no contact badly. <P>h_g

Hey happy girl RN,<P> Weellll, my steel trap mind seems to have forgotten the password to the e-mail address I had for GLynton!! ( The mind is the first to go!!)<BR> <BR> I just didn't want tormented and H to feel like I was piling on!!<P> I have always felt that the marriage comes first! That is the foundation !! <BR> <BR> The OW is using the child as a pawn, and that is wrong! Tormented and H were placed in that situation by OW purposely, and that is wrong.<P> Tormenteds' Hs'primary obligation is to his marriage!! He is acting accordingly. <P> <BR> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

Tormented.... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Tormenteds' Hs'primary obligation is to his marriage!! He is acting accordingly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>I agree...ow is the wrong one here.....<P><BR>Love,<BR>Debi<P><P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Thank you all for your support and prayers. I have learned the hard way, to ignore those who preach about something they know nothing about, insult the choices that are right for me, and disagree with my opinions in a disrespectful manner.<BR>At no time have I questioned my H's actions. He did the right thing. Had he done anything other than what he did, I would have questioned his motives and ultimately us.<P>When I first learned of the A and the OC I immediately told my H that I wanted him to be a part of the OC's life because as stupid as he was he was a good man and the OC was an innocent who deserved to have her father in her life. This thought lasted one day. I knew in my heart that this would never work for me. I could never and would never accept this OC in my life. I would not tolerate having more time taken away from our daughter and me so that H could spend time with OC. It just wouldn't work for me.<BR>It wouldn't work for my H either because OP made herself quite clear. Cross me and you'll be sorry. For example, she told H that when her OC's father was giving her trouble in regards to visitation, she went and slashed his tires.<BR>And clearly her actions in court prove that she cannot be trusted.<BR>In addition, H went to a support group and learned from one of its members (a police officer), that he had his daughter for 6 minutes before he was arrested for allegations of abuse made by the mother. He was not convicted, but had to go to trial to prove his innocence and lost all visitation because "Mommy" got angry. My H will not put himself in a situation in which he has to undergo any type of investigation to prove his innocence because she is unstable and has a sense of security because she lives with her lawyer.<BR>Again, I don't think my H did anything wrong. The OP was the selfish idiot who finds pleasure in using her child to unsuccessfully affect my H. <BR>Thanks to all of you who truly understand and stand by your committment to support those of us in need of an ear, a prayer, a friend.....<BR>Thanks

Tormented,<P>I too am a firm believer in BS's supporting their husband's decisions regarding their children that are results of affairs.<P>I respect your husband's decision and respect you even more for being woman enought to "stand by your man". I consider it a great honor to be woman enough to put my marriage first. Women who stay with their husbands after they have fathered a child are the strongest creatures on earth. <P>To accept or not accept doesn't make you a less honorable person. It is the decision that is best for your circumstance and situation. I only wish all the members of the forum could understand that the decision of acceptance has to come as a result of the couples desire to make their marriage a functioning happy marriage. A wife who accepts her husbands decision regarding his child accepts her husband as if she was marrying him for the first time. When you marry someone, you tell them, "I love you even with all the baggage and skeletons you come with."<P>My husband married me with the baggage I had. And now I recommit myself to him with the baggage he has now; his child by another woman.<P>By the way, my husband has visitation and I suppot his decision. It is by no means EASY or FUN. But it makes my marriage strong and that is the result that is worth the struggle. The feelings of anger and sadness are an investment in my marriage. An investment I am willing to make.<P>Stand strong in your husband & your decision. It is what works for you two as a couple, and everyone should respect that. I do.<P>Sisters in the struggle,<BR><P>------------------<BR>Zebra Baby ...<P>Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Hey Tormented and Zebra,<P><BR> You both have my utmost respect!!<P><BR> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

zebrababy,<P>beautifully put!! if only everyone here could show others the respect you do, this place could be what it once was.<P>happy_girl

Dear tormented, happy_girl, et al,<P>I want to clarify that when I posted, I did not intend to imply that tormented h erred in his decision not to reply to the child. I simply wished to point out that, in my opinion, there was absolutely no way he could have responded that would have worked any better. The ow placed tormented's h in an impossible situation. I definitely was not bashing tormented's h for his response. I think that there is a big difference between intentional cruelty and unintentional cruelty. The ow intentionally placed her child in a cruel position. Tormented's h was not acting in an intentionally cruel manner. I really don't think there were many other options available for him at that time, and if silence was the response agreed upon by him and tormented, then nobody has a right to question it. Nobody likes to see children hurt, but this particular child in this particular situation was going to get hurt one way or another. The actions of the ow guaranteed it.<P>I also found something odd about the responses to tormented's initial post. A few days ago a member (I can't remember who, sorry!) posted about being in the mall and running into the ow and oc. The ow pointed to the child of the marriage and yelled "there is your sister". The member walked away quickly. Nobody slammed that member for not responding to oc/ ow's efforts to force a confrontation. Nobody thought the member was being cruel for ignoring the presence of ow/oc in that case. I think everybody understood that the ow was putting everybody involved in a hellish position. Why is it that when the very same kind of thing happens to the father of the child, everybody automatically jumps on him for being cruel?<P>That said, I believe that ow may have been using her child to gain sympathy from the judge. I'm sure her intentions were to make the judge think, "what a jerk that guy is, not even saying hello to his child. I'm going to make sure that he pays the price for that." I think that tormented and h may want to consider a good defensive strategy to combat that the next time, because I think ow plans to make it a repeat performance.<P>In regards to the "cliques". Maybe it is just me, but I don't feel the tension between contact/no contact groups (with a couple of exceptions) the way others seem to. I feel like I could come in tomorrow and post that I changed my mind and decided to quit pursuing contact, and that nobody would be anything but supportive. I do try not to criticize anybody for their choices, primarily because I never know when I may change my mind and jump the fence to the "other side". It could happen tomorrow, it could happen two weeks from now, or it could never happen at all. Who knows? I certainly don't. And the truth is, not many of us know how our opinions regarding this painful, difficult situation will change on any given day. <P>-cd

Well said CD. This is an extremely personnal decision between BS and WS. Period. No one else can say what is right way or wrong way. Each case is very different. Each child, each family... all must be taken into perspective. <P>This reminds me of something a wise lady said to me (my aunt). We were discussing something about babies (breastfeeding I think versus bottle feeding). She said "well, I learned a long time ago.. whatever the mother decides to do in raising her child is the RIGHT way. Trying to tell her she is wrong doesn't accomplish much. If the momma is happy and the baby is happy, they are doing things the way it should be done." <P>I tend to think this is also the case with contact versus no contact. Each family knows why they are doing the path they are taking. It is their choice and their families. Period. <P>Take care... Carolyn

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cdcollins:<BR><B>Dear tormented, happy_girl, et al,<P>I want to clarify that when I posted, I did not intend to imply that tormented h erred in his decision not to reply to the child. I simply wished to point out that, in my opinion, there was absolutely no way he could have responded that would have worked any better. The ow placed tormented's h in an impossible situation. I definitely was not bashing tormented's h for his response. I think that there is a big difference between intentional cruelty and unintentional cruelty. The ow intentionally placed her child in a cruel position. Tormented's h was not acting in an intentionally cruel manner. I really don't think there were many other options available for him at that time, and if silence was the response agreed upon by him and tormented, then nobody has a right to question it. Nobody likes to see children hurt, but this particular child in this particular situation was going to get hurt one way or another. The actions of the ow guaranteed it.<P>I also found something odd about the responses to tormented's initial post. A few days ago a member (I can't remember who, sorry!) posted about being in the mall and running into the ow and oc. The ow pointed to the child of the marriage and yelled "there is your sister". The member walked away quickly. Nobody slammed that member for not responding to oc/ ow's efforts to force a confrontation. Nobody thought the member was being cruel for ignoring the presence of ow/oc in that case. I think everybody understood that the ow was putting everybody involved in a hellish position. Why is it that when the very same kind of thing happens to the father of the child, everybody automatically jumps on him for being cruel?<P>That said, I believe that ow may have been using her child to gain sympathy from the judge. I'm sure her intentions were to make the judge think, "what a jerk that guy is, not even saying hello to his child. I'm going to make sure that he pays the price for that." I think that tormented and h may want to consider a good defensive strategy to combat that the next time, because I think ow plans to make it a repeat performance.<P>In regards to the "cliques". Maybe it is just me, but I don't feel the tension between contact/no contact groups (with a couple of exceptions) the way others seem to. I feel like I could come in tomorrow and post that I changed my mind and decided to quit pursuing contact, and that nobody would be anything but supportive. I do try not to criticize anybody for their choices, primarily because I never know when I may change my mind and jump the fence to the "other side". It could happen tomorrow, it could happen two weeks from now, or it could never happen at all. Who knows? I certainly don't. And the truth is, not many of us know how our opinions regarding this painful, difficult situation will change on any given day. <P>-cd </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>it was I that had the mall incident, I only walked away because neither of the children can even talk yet so they had no clue what was going on could either talk and otherstand it would have been different. because of that incident we are going after visitation or partial custody.<P>

The very sensitive and personal decision my H and I made regarding OC is one which works for us. We, both of us, together, are focusing in on our marriage and our daughter because it is what is important for us. <BR>While the hurt is still there, our decision has helped in the healing process for both of us. When it's just us, we are better and it will remain just us.<BR>My H is a wonderful person who was unfortunately, for a long time, was under the false impression that I didn't love or want him . Aside from the obvious flaw, he has many wonderful qualities. These are the qualities that made my decision to work on our marraige an easier one.<BR>Once again, I want to thank those who show me support and respect what I have shared.<BR>