Hi all,<P>Ow's mother (the grandmother of oc who currently has physical custody of oc) called and asked if we could change the first visit with oc from this Sunday to next Sunday. She said that her live-in boyfriend's granddaughter's birthday party is that day, and she had forgotten all about it. I was suspicious that it was a stall tactic, but we agreed to it, primarily because we want to keep appearing as gracious and reasonable people. But I did mark it in our handy-dandy contact log, just in case there are questions later.<P>By the way, if you all haven't started a contact log yet, it is a very important thing to do. Ours was invaluable in mediation. While I had jotted down dates of phone calls, etc. I had never really put everything together in one log until couple_of_reasons suggested it (Thanks, CoR!). Basically, our log now has record of every conversation we have had with ow, her boyfriend, and her mother over the last four months. In mediation, the mediator asked h if he had ever tried asking ow for visitation. H said "Yes, but every time we have asked, she has refused." Ow yelled, "That is a lie! He has NEVER asked to see her!" H pulled out my contact log and said "It's all right here. This is a record of every conversation we have had since January." Ow freaked out and started yelling, "You can't f'ing tape my calls! That's against the law!" H said, "We didn't tape them, we just made little notes about what was said." The mediator asked ow, "Should I look at his contact log, or are you going to change your story?" Ow had to recant her statements, and was made to look like a big stinkin' liar.<P>And contact logs might be just as helpful for those who don't have contact with oc too, especially if they are experiencing harrassment by ow. <P>On the lighter side, perhaps you all can offer some input on something: Although it will be nearly four months until ow has to drive oc to and from our house for all day visits, I (being a details-obsessed person) am already trying to determine the best route to take when ow gets here with oc. the question is whether or not we allow ow to come into our house at all. On one hand, it would be nice to meet her on the sidewalk, which implies that she is totally unworthy of stepping foot in our home. on the other hand, it might be a lot of fun inviting her in so that she can witness first hand all the things she will never be part of - all the things that she was attempting to "steal" when she tried to take h away from us. (I should probably note here that ow, at the time of the affair, was EXTREMELY nasty about telling me repeatedly that she liked the idea of taking a married man away from his home, his wife, and his kids.) So, should we leave her standing on the outside, or should we invite her in for tea and cookies? Carolyn, you're also a general in the pychological war games....what say ye?<P>Additional couple of items for anybody who is interested:<P>1. My reaction to seeing oc again was even better than last time around. She looked like a sweet 3 year old little girl. nothing more, nothing less. no pangs, no resentment. I think I will grow to love her quickly. She looks a lot like my h and my boys, and looks very little like ow. If you threw her in with my four boys, you wouldn't be able to pick her out as the one who is not biologically mine. In fact, she looks more like me than my second son does. Overall, given my feelings, I think the process of including her in the family will be rather smooth.<P>2. And to tigger: don't apologize for implying that I was "acting". I was DEFINITELY acting! I should have gotten a "performance of the year" award. The "real" me couldn't have gone in there that calm and cool and collected. Truth be told, if I hadn't been looking at it like a role in a play, I wouldn't have been able to get through it. But you know what the funny part is? The more I was acting nice, the easier it became, and the closer I came to being nice for real. If that keeps up, perhaps someday I will be forced to abandon my latent hostility and subtle agressiveness. Oh, but I hope that doesn't happen too soon. It's so much fun rubbing it in her face. My life will not be nearly as exciting if I suddenly develop the ability to forgive <P>3. And to everybody, thanks for the support and prayers. With all this happening, I haven't had much time to respond to everybody else's posts, and I feel guilty of taking far more than I give on the forum. But now that we have gotten over the biggest hurdles, I will have more mental energy to spare.<P>with love,<BR>cd<p>[This message has been edited by cdcollins (edited May 18, 2001).]

CD,<P>Leave her on the street, I understand what you were saying about letting her see what she "tried" to steal and it was a game to her...but she will wonder even more if she is on the outside looking in. She really does not deserve to be treated like a guest, besides she may think it is OK for her to "hang out" while you visit w/ OC and if you are too gracious, she probably is tacky enough to ask, That puts you in an awkward position. Keep her on the curb ..thats my vote..<P>As for the delay...that concerns me. She is a lair...you know the saying "the apple does not fall too far from the tree" that would imply Grandma is one too. Have your attorney call their attorney for verification of her story...or if no attorneys involved, have grandma FAX the request...she can go to any copy place and for a couple of bucks she can fax this request make sure she signs it. Otherwise go for the visit. The one thing I know at least out here...it has everything to do with attempt, and actual time w/ child that matters with the court...any delays will just hurt you...wether it is you or them...they do things "in the best interest of the child" and right now even though you and your family are the childs only sane hope for a normal life...the court views you as strangers to her (even though it is OW fault). Before I had my last son I had volunteered as a court appt child advocate...takes to much time and with the baby cant do it...But everything here they work it in the child behalf...please dont even be manipulated with kindness..you can still be kind...but call her back and tell her you totally understand the dilema, but you need it in writing, sign and FAXED (not mailed..you know the old checks in the mail thing)...if you do not recieve it, you will be there to see OC as scheduled. That way it does look to the court that you are attempting to "be nice" but the court wants to see that you are spending time w/ OC...that is all they care about. If OW and grandma do not comply with the "court order" they are in contempt. So protect you and H...DONT TRUST GRANDMA, she may have more tact, but she is an older version of OW..JMHO...Lots of HUGS...M

CD,<P>I couldn't be happier for you! I agree with the others that you deserve a medal of honor for going through the process and not losing your cool. As I said, it's YOU they want to see react and when you don't it doesn't add fuel to the fire. Great job. You are my hero. <P>I'm glad you started your handy-dandy notebook. It does come in handy and will continue help should anything start to go haywire again. Keep up the book, take nothing out, write it all down, plain and simple. <P>About the ow coming into your home? Although I undestand why you would want her to come into your home, I, like MyCross, don't think it's a good idea. I've heard stories of people inviting others in and they don't want to leave, taking no clues that it's time to go. Plus, you need to use this time to bond with this child, introduce her to your own children, learn what she likes and doesn't like etc. So, why waste this precious and important time with the ow? You don't have to. The court doesn't say "You must invite her in". <P>The most I personally would go for is talking with the ow awhile outside with the oc there too. Just for a little while, until the oc is comfortable. Maybe have one or two of your kids come to the door after a minute or two to invite the oc in to play, show her some toys.. whatever will entice her to come into your house, without her mother and without being afraid. If you want to make a point, both you are your husband need to be at the door, together, smiling, laughing, and excited about the oc's visit. <P>Whatever you choose to do, don't forget to take out the handy-dandy notebook and record it. <P>MyCross had a really good point about having your attorney confirm the change in visitation with the grandmother's attorney. Maybe a fax will work too, having your attorney send a fax to her attorney saying "I understand visitation has been changed to (the date) for (reason here). Therefore, visitation will be one (date)." I'm just afraid the grandmother will turn around and say "they never showed" or something like that. Yes, the notebook will help a great deal, but written conversation between attorney is even better. Something to think about. <P>Take good care of yourself, CD. I'm awfully proud of you. <P>Love,<BR>CoR

Hey CD... boy you have lot's going on here. First, I think I would call Grandma back and tell them that you "just can't bear to wait another weekend" to see little precious one. Ask for Saturday as opposed to Sunday (after all, they started this moving stuff around right?). Surely they can't be busy both days. If they are... well they need to make themselves unbusy for the sake of that child. Obviously at that point they would be taking themselves into consideration and not the child. I also like what MyCross said about having them make this request to mediator, attorney, court, something. That will let them know real fast that we will not play this game every week. Be sure and emphasis that the "only reason you are doing this is to make sure the child doesn't feel abandoned by you & H and to make sure courts don't get made at you". Keep them on the run.<P>As for where to meet OW... that is tough. I agree that it would be fun to have her see all that you have & she doesn't, but that could somehow turn on you (my fear at least). I can just hear her going to courts saying "they have this & they have that & my child doesn't". No way. Don't let her dirt up your floors with her boots. Either meet her on sidewalk, or out at some place nice & pick up the tab. Maybe offer to meet her at a nice shopping center (since that should be easy for her to find & then gives her something to do for next few hours). While at shopping center take her & OC to a store and let OC pick out a nice toy or outfit and purchase it (saying all the while "we love you little one & want you to have this from Daddy & me). Not to imply you must buy the love of OC, but it will sure send a message to OW that you have the means to provide for child, and you have the heart to do it. <P>I LOVE the contact log. That had to have been one of the crowning moments of the whole trip. Nothing like tripping folks up with their own stuff. Whooo weee.... !!! <P>And you know.... sometimes we take from this forum & sometimes we give. Isn't that what it is about? Take care... Carolyn

Aye, CD, I'm not in a very generous mood this morning. I haven't had time to get my coffee and I have a work diary that is 4 pages long (that's A LOT). I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for your babosa (worse than stupid and moronic combined). My vote is that you meet her outside. Let her wonder about your home and what it's like to be on the inside...somewhere she'll never be. Her behavior warrants that kind of treatment. She doesn't deserve to be treated as a guest in your home. She has tried to manipulate and hurt at every opportunity. I can picture her being kept at bay on the sidewalk to your home while you smilingly walk away, hand in hand, with her daughter, and she can do nothing to stop it. Speaking as the mother of an OC, that would kill me. Just the thought of someone walking away with my baby gives me the chills. Thankfully I do not have that kind of relationship with my son's other parents. <P>I just don't get it! Are most OW really so stupid that they actually believe that being malicious, manipulative and just all around nasty is going to benefit them and their child?<P>Keep her on the street where she belongs! Your home is your sanctuary...don't let her infest it.<p>[This message has been edited by ohbratti1 (edited May 18, 2001).]

My dearest CD,<P>I just wanted to get my 2 cents worth in before Abbi gets too fussy. <P>I agree with everyone else about whether you should let OW in the house or meet her outside. She doesn't deserve to see what you, your H and your kids have! Yes, she was trying to take it all away, and it would be nice to have her see what she missed out on. But, she doesn't even deserve that. Let her wonder and stew about what she has missed out on that her daughter is getting the benefit of. <P>I also have two votes(can I do that?) from the other posts. <BR>1. I vote first for takingcare's idea of meeting at the mall, or something like that, and buying the little girl something special. That would just stick in OW's craw the whole day. Maybe, if you get her a toy or something like that, you could say that this will be her special "thing" that will be at your house for her every time she comes to visit.<P>2. I vote for CoR's idea of "chatting" with OW outside with (we really need to think of a name to call this darling little girl. That's it, Darling!) Darling, and a couple minutes later, have your boys come to the door, to invite her in to play with them. It seems that you have already broken the ice with Darling at the mediation, so you shouldn't have too much trouble with her accepting you.<P>I think that either one of those scenarios would really be sticking it to the OW, while you are doing nothing wrong in the courts eyes, should she decide to complain for some reason.<P>As for Grandma changing the day, I agree with takingcare, change it to Sat! Also, get it noted with the proper people so it can't be used against you in the near future for your possible custody. <P>I am so happy for you and yours! This may turn out that you will have 5 children in your family, with OW paying you the CS! I just know that your boys would be the protectors of Darling! They would also just love her to death. Just like my son is doing with Abbi right now Gee, he was the one who wanted another brother, and he can't get enough of his baby sister!<P>Well, I need to go get dressed so I can get the kids to school. I guess the voting is unanimous on whether to let OW in your house or not.<P>Love,<P>Tigger

CD.....You're my hero.<P>I am really glad to hear that about the contact log. I beleive it was you, CD, who recommended I start a phone log. I have been writing everything down since 2 weeks before OC was born. OW came to my home because I called her mothers number and what turned out to be her cell phone number to ask that she stop hanging up on me when I answered the phone. When she arrived she threated to beat the s**T out of me after the baby was born. Maybe it will be helpful to us in the future should paternity be positive. My OW is hateful toward me and doesn't what me to have any contact with OC.<P>Thanks CD.............jessie

THE CURB<P>Catnip =^^=<P>

We're voting? Don't let mom in your house!<P>One little thought... I'm in a hurry here, but if you buy OC something she gets really attached to and won't let her keep it when she leaves your house, it could really hurt OC's feelings (backfire), especially at a young age. I think if you give a child a gift, they ought to be able to keep it-period. I say this because I have a dear friend whose high-paid ex-husband has been doing this with their 2girls for years: deliberately buys them expensive things that they can only play with at his house (which they are rarely at). In his case, it's a way of trying to get them to want to live with him. It is one of several things they don't like about him. Anyway, I know the weird-o XOW might destroy the gift or whatever, but let that reflect badly on HER, not you! Tell OC she can keep it as a reminder of her time with your family, and OC will eventually see who is the more sane parent.<P>You're doing GREAT, CD! Keep up the good work!!

PS Check with court system before changing the contact dates. Maybe it depends on the state but same friend as above graciously changed a few dates with her ex, and then this somehow came to reflect badly on her in court later for not following court's exact orders!!

my vote is on the curb too. don't let her inside your home. i agree with meeting in a neutral place like the mall, or a restaurant. <P>happy_girl

How about under the curb?<P><BR> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

Thanks for all the responses and votes!<P>Jenny, the court order states that we can make changes as long as BOTH parties are in agreement. But if they try to change something and we DONT agree to it, we can file for contemp.<P>Definitely if we buy oc something, she can take it with her. First and foremost, because that's the right thing to do. Secondly, I fancy the idea of oc bragging to her mom's friends and relatives "CD and Dad" bought me this. heh heh. It's funny you mentioned that because last time we were visiting with her (almost 2 years ago now) we bought her a little puzzle and left it at her grandmother's house for her. On Wednesday at mediation, grandma brought along a bag of toys to keep oc occupied, and lo and behold, there was the puzzle. Oc put it together 3 or 4 times. I wonder if ow even remembered where it came from.<P>All others,<P>while I love your answers, I must tell you that my dear ol' mum has one-upped you all. We were discussing it, and my mother said, "Why don't you just meet her on the street corner? Isn't that where she works anyway?" hahaha.<P>cd<P><BR>

CD..<P>Sorry I'm late in posting, but I agreed with everyone and your mother.<P>Keep the bad spirit out of you home.<P>G&P (formerly IN THE SOUTH)

Dear cd,<P>Sorry I am late too, but I have not been able to keep up with posting the last couple days. <P>Loved your mom's "on the street courner"!<P>Now we know where you get your personality!?!<P>I am so happy that everything seems to be going your way. But, mostly I am happy for Darling because after 3 years it seems like she may finally get a real mom.<P>love,<BR>heavenly