We ask about the OC via email about 3 times/yr. Yesterday was the latest cheery "update" from XOW. I found it very depressing and I have been struggling mightily. I haven't even told H it was there, because they always make him sad too plus he worries about me! One thing this tells me is we can cut back on frequency.<P>For us, this is GRIEF. We lost 4 babies within our marriage and this OC too. There is no happiness at OC's growth or accomplishments. We wish OC well, but we (long-dist)are in no position to be in her life on any kind of normal basis and hearing about XOW's happiness with her is just a grim reminder of all we lost: the exclusivity of our marriage, the exclusivity of our children, the betrayal of a marriage and supposed friendships, and the OC herself.<P>Digging out of depression,<BR>J

Hey Jenny,<P> OWs' happiness could be bogus, a hurtful jab at you. You still have your marriage, that is the bedrock. It's at times like these when a husband and wife help and support each other, deepen the bond, the commitment, the love!<P> OW has nothing compared to you.<P> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

Jenny, I so well understand your sense of loss. The OC issue has made this whole infidelity thing so much more painful for me. I am no pained by losing the exclusivity of our marriage and only I having children with my husband.When my h talks of wanting contact with OC, in future, maybe, it pains me so I do not think I can stand it. I really feel the OC will end our marriage, not the infidelity. It destroys me that much. I too had 5 miscarriages between 2 kids, including a set of twins, and when I think of what I endured to have our two beautiful kids, including lots or pain and fertility treatments, and then some of the beauty of all that is hurt by the ease at which OW became pregnant with my h' s child. I cannot tolerate him having contact with her now-it makes it so hard for me to connect with him with that issue looming around us. I envy you being overseas-I wish I was too, far, far away. So far the OW has kept her distance,although she lives very close to us. I keep wishing she will move and let us be, and find new man to father child. Is that ever going to happen? H keeps telling me he is the father, that is a fact, and yet every time he says that, it is like stabbing me in the heart-hurting me over and over, killing me piece by piece. Paying 1100 month CS isn't easy either-it is not just a bill to me just yet. I see it on our bank statement and it is a painful reminder of H's dishonesty, betrayal, life with the OW. I hate that. I am sorry you are struggling-you have offered much to me at times. Maybe less contact is the answer-what is the point of occasional info about a child whose life you are not in? Is the OW still married? I seem to remember she was married at time of pregnancy of the OC.You are in my thoughts. Hang in there.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lsb:<BR>[B]. I envy you being overseas-I wish I was too, far, far away. So far the OW has kept her distance,although she lives very close to us. I keep wishing she will move and let us be, and find new man to father child. Is that ever going to happen? <BR> it may happen some day down the road but I wouldn't count on it, what kind of man would marry a women who had a child by a married man? If some fool does marry her she will probably still tell the OC "the truth" by then or down the road. And guarenteed knowing how money hungry most are there is no WAY they are going to let new hubby adopt and let father off of the cs payments. They know that the father can decide to see child and pay csc or not see oc and they still have to pay. i am in dark mood today, must be the weather.

Dear Jenny,<BR>I understand your grief. I have read your posts along the time I have been here and you truly have love in your heart and compassion.<BR>It must be a horrible day for you.<P>I too have days where it seems as if this is all too much to comprehend.<P>I will pray for your comfort today, Jenny. I wish you peace.<P>Love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Jenny,<P>You are in my prayers. I think that those of us who have to deal with infertility and our spouse's having an OC have an especially heavy burden. She accomplished something we cannot.<P>Where are you overseas if you don't mind my asking?<P>Prayers to you and your H.<P>Know all about the depression. I am there too. I can't believe that I have backslid.<P>Mrs. Job

Dear Jenny,<P>I am so sorry that the update has brought back all the sadness associated with the OC issue. As the others have said, those of us who have struggled with infertility have particular difficulty with the OC issue.<P>I remember like it was yesterday all of the infertility treatments and operations that I endured in order to have my two kids. But, when I thought that my H and I were struggling together, it made things easier. Even now he tells me that he was suffering right along with me. But, I can't help but feel that when the OC was born he was still sharing in the happiness of the birth of his child -- something I was not able to share with him.<P>Your marriage is doing great. You are one of the lucky ones that was able to put this issue in perspective and move on. But, we all know that there will always be times when something brings on the sadness and, even for a short time, we are right back in that moment of time when the whole mess started.<P>I hope that tomorrow is a better day for you. One day at a time my dear. Don't look farther ahead and don't look farther behind. Today will fade back into place with the other memories of sadness and will be replaced by the hope that God gives us every day when we open our eyes.<P>Special prayers are being offered to lift you out of this momentary depression. You have been so supportive to me and others ever since I joined this forum. I hope that we have been helpful in some small way to at least let you know you don't have to suffer alone.<P>God bless you.<BR>love,<BR>heavenly

Thank you each for kind thoughts!<P>Isb, H and I decided via policy of joint agreement re: handling the OC. IF we were (or ever are--doubtful!!) near the OC, we would TRY regular visitation. Long-distance, we send weekly stickers to OC and are open to occassional visitation when she is school-aged IF the child wants to. We will not "force" ourselves into her life nor does my H want OC to feel he doesn't care. He wants to meet her someday, at least once, (this might mean a one-time visit by us to her area someday) and I'm agreeable to all this on the condition there is NOOOO solo contact between H and XOW in ANY form. I would've preferred to raise OC and (as with most XOW) her mother is unstable enough that it MIGHT become necessary for us to get custody someday (like CD's case).<P>XOW's divorce was final approx. one month before the OC's birth, and he rarely sees his 2 kids, so all 3 of hers are basically fatherless. (XOW has the nerve to get pissy about this, like it's all OUR fault!)<P>Our agreement is not a problem for me, but the latest update caused me more pain than I expected and I'm looking for God's Will and peace in this situation... (Too bad He doesn't still just talk to people like He did in the Old Testament!)<P>As for being long-distance, in many ways (rebuilding trust, for example!)it is a blessing, but I sincerely believe that distance makes little difference in matters of the heart, be that love or anger... they are just as real on the other side of planet as when they were just down the road--I just don't have to worry about me(or H!) running into them at the store! <BR> <BR>MrsJ, I'd rather not say what country we're in, but we'll be overseas until after the child is school-age. I'll be following your story... maybe we can lift each other up! <P>Tired today,<BR>J

jenny,<P>yuck. an email from OW. i am sure that she is trying to make her life sound more wonderful than it is. i admire you guys for even keeping the contact you do. opens up those wounds sometimes, i am sure, especially getting emails from someone who was once supposedly your friend. sorry you are suffering because of this.<P>hugs for you. <P>happy_girl

Jenny wrote:<P>> (Too bad He doesn't still just talk to people like He did <BR>> in the Old Testament!)<P>Amen. I am always waiting for my telegram from God. I have Christian friends who pray and say, "God answered my prayer, He said that....." You fill in the rest. I don't doubt them, I just wonder why I just get back undending Love and Grace. Not too bad, that Love and Grace, but sometimes I wouldn't mind a big booming voice coming from the Clouds that say "Mrs. Job, what I expect you to do is..." I always wonder if I am on the path He intends for me, but every rare once-in-awhile I look backwards and see that I haven't strayed from the path, mostly because my prayer is that I not be allowed to stray too far from what He wants for me.<P>Mrs. Job<BR>

Jenny,<P>I am praying for yout peace. I know how disturbing just seeing ow's name in my mail box is. It is upsetting I think no matter what they have to say. <P>Mrs. Job,<P>I am one of those who has become convinced God is answering my prayers. Through this horrid situation I have become closer to Him. Although a booming voice would definately be easier, these days Moses would probably be institutionalized. Maybe that is why God is so quite quiet to our ears. Open your heart...you know those "gut feelings" those instincts, I beleive that is how God handles us now days. Remember how we all said on here that we had dreams and visions and what not fo affair even before we knew. I think (for me any ways) he was trying to warn me and prepare me a bit. As prepared as anyone can possibly be for this blow anyway.<BR>Love<BR>bw

Thank you again Lynton, Isb, whatif, gemini, MrsJ, heavenly, happygirl, brokenw! For 2 days I've had no one to talk to about it except H (which just pokes at his own guilt and sadness), so your words mean a lot.<P>Mrs.Job, I could so totally relate! I also agree with BrokenWings that sometimes I'm sure a "gut feeling" or intuition or nudge is God, but many other times I cannot tell the difference between my will and His, or even what the heck His could be! I'm not sure if we are doing His will in this situation. It is the result of LOTS of honest, intelligent struggle, this compromise that we can both live with, but IS it the best we could do by both OC and our own family? (Lots of people think we should either move to be in her life or don't have contact at all, but 5 counselors and chaplains liked our plan so it can't be too bad) More importantly is it what GOD wants us to do?<P>I just know that I was sick to my stomach over this e-update. It actually ruined my appetite all day and part of the next day. It included 6 pictures I wasn't expecting, including her slightly older siblings who used to be my son's best friends. I'm getting better now...<P>(Does the term 'What Would Jesus Do' ever make you laugh? Not to be sacriligious, but I keep thinking: first of all, Jesus wouldn't commit adultery and be in this stupid mess!)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>: first of all, Jesus wouldn't commit adultery and be in this stupid mess!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh Jenny!!!! How true! I hope you're feeling better now.<P>Love<BR>Debi<BR><P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Jenny:<P>I've been off line for the past few days again due to my new job.<P>When I read your thread about the happy e-mail from the XOW and the responses you've received from your family here on this forum, I was relieved to see you in such wonderful loving hands.<P>Gregg's take on this is pretty much my initial reaction when I read your post. While I know you do not wish anyone any ill will or unhappiness, it is a bitter pill to hear the O(pportunist) W(hore) trill on about OC and be 'newsy' and 'cutesy' about OC and make everything seem so happy. But, Jen, how could any woman be happy, let alone carry on about her lot in life when it is so dismal and unrewarding and such a disgrace?<P>Your XOW is a divorced woman raising three kids alone because she is a tramp. Her behavior has robbed her children of a stable home and a decent life. Her behavior has robbed you of all the things that lsb and others mentioned earlier. But, she has not robbed you of the gift God has given you and your husband of an intact and loving family and a renewed marriage.<P>She's miserable, Jen. It's her fault, her doing, but she is the type who refuses to take responsiblity for her actions and instead chooses to blame others and hold innocent parties responsible for her miserable existance. She knows you are NOT miserable and that you and your husband are recovering from this whole mess.<P>If I were an OW and I wanted to 'tweak' the Wife, she would never see the misery and I would feign happiness.<P>It is human nature to wish that someone who has hurt us so badly is held accountable for their actions and not granted sublime happiness even though we do not wish them misery; especially for the chidlren's sake. They will have to deal with their own brand of misery soon enough as it is. She chased away her husband with her actions leaving her older children without their dad around...and that dad is rotten to abandon those kids and leave them in the care of someone so incompetent and negligent.<P>The point I am trying to make is that things are not as they appear and people who cause so much heartache usually end up paying the piper big time. The rest is false bravado.<P>God has bestowed upon you and your family a great peace in spite of this hiccup in your recovery. It is completely unrealistic to expect never to have any angst about this or be immune to the triggers we all are forced to deal with on a daily basis, no matter how long we have lived this nightmare, no matter how successful our recovery. For the rest of our lives, we will have our peace intruded upon by occasional triggers and reminders, tweaks and annoyances. There will be times when we begrudge the OW any relief and feel that her plight should be one of hardship and misery and will resent her if she is able to escape her due. And there will be many more times when we really won't give a rip if she is happy, and in fact, probably be somewhat glad she is for the kids' sake.<P>I despise my XOW with such a vengeance that sometimes I feel I would rejoice if something terrible happened to her, and yet, if she finds any happiness in this life, then that's OK...I guess I just don't want to know about it. Especially if I am not feeling all that happy myself.<P>A little more distancing for a while might help.<P>You have such a deep faith and close relationship with God, Jenny...it is what has kept you afloat all these years. Let Him take it from here. God bless you and yours, Jenny.<P>Love<P>Catnip =^^=<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jenny:<P>> Mrs.Job, I could so totally relate! I <BR>> also agree with BrokenWings that sometimes <BR>> I'm sure a "gut feeling" or intuition or <BR>> nudge is God,[/B] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I can't stop and trust a gut instinct. Well, I can, but I am pretty sure that it is my gut instinct not God's. Poor God, He has not good way to get through my thick skull because even if He is speaking to me, I would be psyching myself out and saying it was just me trying to do my own will.<P>Jenny continued:<BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>> but many other times I cannot tell the difference <BR>> between my will and His, or even what the heck His <BR>> could be! </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think that what matters most to Him is that we are actively seeking His will. I think a Christian life is a bit like an Oriental carpet that you only see from underneath. You can get a general idea of the patterns, but you don't really see it until you are looking down at it from a distance that puts it in proper perspective.<P><BR>Jenny wrote: <BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>> (Does the term 'What Would Jesus Do' ever make you <BR>> laugh? Not to be sacriligious, but I keep thinking: <BR>> first of all, Jesus wouldn't commit adultery and be <BR>> in this stupid mess!)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>FOTFLMAO. To be even more disrespectful I wonder if Joseph ever called the Holy Spirit the OM. You know "If she had only kept her heart closed to that Holy Spirit guy we wouldn't be in this mess. Hope he doesn't expect a card on Father's Day. Damn donkey hurry up and get us to Bethlehem before her water breaks, huh? Whadda ya mean ya got no rooms!?!? I got my reservation confirmation number right heah. Yeah it's N14561. Well, I think that's a "1" at the end, could be the letter "l" Can't really tell without my reading glasses and they're outside in the miniature saddle bag. I seen German Shepards bigger than that donkey. Mary's feet were draggin in the dirt the whole way down from Narazeth. A STABLE!?!?! you think I'm gonna let my wife give birth in a STABLE? Gotta pay taxes and be a labor coach all in the same night. I knew I shudda paid more attention in them Lamaze classes and that Libertarian candidate ain't looking so bad right now on the eve of taxation day. Hey God, what didya sign me up for here?!?!<P>Great! now we got some gigantic star pointing us out to the rest of the world, like this is some kinda Holiday Inn here. Like it's not bad enough that all the widows back in Nazareth are busy trying to count out nine months from our wedding day. How are we supposed to get any sleep with that thing shining in the windows? Angels! Angels! Don't even get me started on that Angel choir, those trumpets and harps and all those shepards who keep stopping by to visit the baby. We registerd at BabiesRUs and they keep bringing us livestock! What are we going to do with a bunch of sheep? I'm a carpenter. Can't they tell that by the tool belt hanging around my waist and pulling by robe down so that my behind keeps showing every time I lean over? I work with wood, not smelly animals. And that kid with the drum; never seen anyone with a worse sense of rhythm, pa rum pa pa pum, my carpenter's behind--we wanted the Tickle Me Elmo doll, not some monotonus drum solo and the Ray Coniff Singers. Great! now it's starting to snow; that never happens here, but just my luck..."<P>Ok. It is obvious I have too much time on my hands and I should have gone to bed hours ago before I began begging God to zap my house with lightning because I am such a smart aleck.<P>Mrs. Job <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Job (edited May 28, 2001).]

that was great mrs. job! you are good at that!<P>happy_girl

Hey Mrs. J,<P><BR> You Madcap!! You are out of control!! You're wacky, zany!!<P> You are one h*ll of a writer, seriously!<P> Ever think of writing as a career! I wish I had your command of the language!<P> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

Hey Cat,<P><BR> You, too! You guys are gifted in prose! (sp?)<P> See, I can't even put a simple sentence together!<P><BR> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

Hey Jenny,<P> I feel as you do, the sanctity of my marriage is gone. I'm not sure how to get around that. I wish I had some advice, but I don't.<P> Maybe some of our friends here have some insight.<P> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

Thanks guys. I was worried that it was a bit too disrespectful. I think our Lord had a good sense of humor. To paraphrase: Take care of that board in your eye before you worry about the splinter in someone else's. Board in your eye--Ha Ha.<P>Thanks Gregg, I think that you are hysterical. Another smart aleck. We could form a club.<P>I am a writer. Just the boring (well-paid) kind. I am a technical writer in the computer industry and I have published a medical paper in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinolgy and Metabolism. I am working on a couple of other medical studies. Just something I do in my "spare" time. Some day I would like to try my hand at children's stories and I have also toyed with the idea of a fictionalized version of our recovery after the affair and all the negotions with (and interference from) the OW. Please don't worry, anything said on this board is sacrosanct. I would never violate anyone's trust. I have had that done to me and it hurts too much.<P>Mrs. Job