I don't know if we are going to make it.Every day it is so hard to act as if we are o.k with my children around. H is trying to be attentive, loving, etc. we are doing things as a family together. But I feel emotionally distant from him. I feel tense, nervous around him.this with a man who has been my best friend for more than 30 years. This affair and OC issue has rocked my feelings for him badly. We decided to go away for 2 days next week to celebrate our anniversary-I am scared to death. Don't want to use it as a massive counseling session, but worry I will not be myself, which of course I am not. I am not myself. It is hard for me to smile, care what h says or does. HOw do you get closer to H during all this? It has only been 3 and half months since discovery.We are trying to work on repairing our relationship, but I know I am far from forgiving him, much less feeling as if we can be a truly happy couple, although I am gaim to wait and see for as long as it takes. Where initially I wanted to have sex with H, as others have spoken to, I now feel ambivalent about that, and that worries me since sex for H is what got him into affair in first place, and then he loved OW. What also upset me yesterday was I looked over old credit card statements for evidence of things he might have bought OW, lunches out, etc. Realized there was one restaurant mentioned repeatedly where they must have gone, in town OW lives, and what hurt was that on my birthday last year, he had lunch with her. Then came home and made me a birthday dinner. That really hurt.What husband said-why do you do this to yourself? I told him that hurt,that he had lunch with her on my birthday. He doesnt' seem to understand how that makes<BR>me feel so discounted by him, so incidental to his life during affair, and he just said why am I looking at this<BR>stuff now, that it makes me feel worse, then said a perfunctory sorry and left to go work. I felt discounted with my feelings by him. He just doesn't get how this whole issue has made me realize how little he really felt toward me during all this, and how I question how he feels towards me now. Of course, with my attitude currently, him loving me is hard for him as well, as I can understand. the only thing keeping me in marriage now is our history of love for so long and our beautiful kids. I just do not know if that is enough to stay together because I am afraid H will hurt me again around OC issue. I still cannot accept him having contact, we have put that issue on back burner for now, but I fear that issue will be the death of our marriage and family life. Anyway, would love to hear what you all do to feel connected even when you do not feel connected. WE act as if we plan to stay together,a s Jenny once mentioned, but does that eventually feel as if you are? And any ideas to make anniversary get away healing versus frightening would be most helpful. tips for H would be good too as he is still reading my posts most of the time.

i'm at 4+ months past finding out from my h. i'm much <BR>better than a month ago. i look at everything, i want<BR>to know as much as i can, "she" knows everything why can't<BR>i, i found a call on our oldest sons birthday, so sad how<BR>far they fall. i was definently not in my h considerations<BR>but now i am and i tell him how much the specifics hurt and<BR>he apologizes for each thing. at first he just wanted a<BR>blanket sorry to cover it all, but the questions burned in<BR>my mind. i'm much better with the truth, my suspicions are<BR>usually right anyway, and then i choose to forgive my h for<BR>his stupid behavior. it is hard for him to be reminded but<BR>he can see how much it helps me, i'm able to put the junk behind me better. it's so sad though. we have a suposed<BR>child by ow on way in 3 months. the not knowing is really<BR>taxing me,it's not a for sure it's my h's. just keep breathing, he is still with you and working on the marriage<BR>windfall

Isb,<P>I was hoping you would post again soon. I feel the need to follow your story because I am in the same situation with the fact, that I am insisting NO contact with OC will be possible for me. (Maybe everyone feels that way at first) My H just moved back home, 5 weeks since d-day, and I do not know how to feel towards him. He says he doesn't know how he can cope with knowing there is a child out there that is his, and not having contact. I say, you better learn...I have been through this with him when we first got together, he was just finishing up his divorce, and I am already a step-mom to his 2 other children, who I love dearly. But all the pain I went thru in dealing with him and his dealing s with his ex-wife, I told him I just can't do it again with someone he has had an affair with. We have a 3 y/o D.<P>I'm sorry for going on so much, I really just wanted to tell you that I understand exactly how you feel and I am sorry you are feeling sad and so alone.<P>Love,<BR>MoJo

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lsb:<BR>[B]We decided to go away for 2 days next week to celebrate our anniversary-I am scared to death. Don't want to use it as a massive counseling session, but worry I will not be myself, which of course I am not. I am not myself. It is hard for me to smile, care what h says or does. HOw do you get closer to H during all this? It has only been 3 and half months since discovery.<P>he had lunch with her. Then came home and made me a birthday dinner. That really hurt.What husband said-why do you do this to yourself? <BR>B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Dear lsb:<P>God. You sound like I did in the beginning. And your husband sounds like mine did in the beginning. You should pull up my old posts from two years ago so you can see I was just like you and felt just like you and said the same things you are saying and my husband was a huge SOB-cold, distant, saying absurd things like "why do you do this to yourself?" What? Me? Are you kidding? I didn't do this to myself you Yik-Yak! YOU did. You ACT, I REACT. This is my reaction. This is how I process the pain and desperately try to find evidence that I am loved and desirable....I look through your stuff now...something I have never done until now because I had no reason to do this until now...Pal, this is your doing, not mine."<P>It takes at least six months, lsb, to get through the feeling of estrangement. At least it did for me. I made a stand because I couldn't take the rejection or distancing and risked everything, knowing that by playing my last card may be the end of us. I had to do something or die trying. I had just found the forum a couple weeks prior to the ultimatum. I guess everything I said and did was wrong according to forum suggestions but I am impatient and just had to fix it or get out.<P>No one feels 'themselves' for a very long time. And no one is ever like they once were. We can all get better...much better, in fact. But no one is ever as they once were. You're not alone in this. And given that it is early since D-day, this is something your husband will just have to handle somehow. After all, this is something he did that you had no control of that has effected you forever. Saying that, lsb, you do have a responsiblity to yourself to do what you must to make yourself whole again. Coming here, posting here, seeing counselors, taking or not taking meds, going to church, practicing Plan A, finding out what you can do to change yourself or find out what you may have done to contribute to the problem is something we all have to face. There will probably come a time when your husband will move mountains to make things up to you, but right now, that may not be possible because he is confused and shell shocked, too. He is afraid too much damage has been done to repair the destruction he has caused and may sometimes wonder "why bother?" like my husband did. In fact, sometimes they even sabotage the progress because they do not feel they deserve another chance.<P>When you are all done beating him up emotionally, (BTW, I am not condeming you or pointing fingers...I am speaking in general terms...I did this and assume this is standard procedure) when you are all done venting, crying, asking questions, when the obsessing stops and when you feel JUSTLY COMPENSATED by his remorse, then you will begin to heal and make progress. You will have triggers all your life but they will lessen in intensity and become less frequent with time.<P>This isn't going to happen over night, however, looking back, I can hardly beleive it has already been 2.5 years for me.<P>There are going to be lots and lots of dark days over the next year or so. I didn't really start to feel better until 1.5 years from discovery, but then that is my time line. Everyone's is different.<P>The worst possible thing that can ever happen to a woman has happened to you, lsb. It has happened to all of us here on this site. And nothing is going to make it go away until it is time for it to go away. Nothing can take away the profound disappointment you feel that you have lost the most special, the most excellent, the most intimate part of your life. The good news, lsb, is that it can be even better than before. You and your husband and your marriage can rise to a higher plane of love, compassion and understanding, but this takes commitment and work. You may not 'feel' it, but if you act 'as if', eventually it will become real. The numbness you feel is clouding your real feelings most of the time, questioning your marriage, your worth, your desirability...and if your ego is as monumental as mine is, then you will never understand how your husband could ever possibly betray you on any level. Because you're so damn special, you're so damn good. I knew I was...how did he miss it? Or maybe it was just too creepy living with St. Catnip.<P>lsb, take a deep breath, go on your weekend and try not to be down-in-the-mouth or subconscienously punish your husband by being pissy. I know it is hard...almost irresistable because we want them to pay for what they have done...we want them to suffer, to know how badly we are hurt, how much pain we are in...but, they can't take it. It is too much for them to see what they've done. <P>Go on your weekend. To make a real difference in your marriage, try to act 'as if' you are happy and lighthearted as often as possible. This is not to say you can't have an occasional melt-down when the triggers feel like real bullets, but don't do it this weekend if possible. <P>Talk about the special times, reminisce about your history, be loving and bring (meow) black lace. Make him glad he married you and stayed with you. By doing these things, I guarantee it will inadvertantly 'punish' him more that you are sweet and sexy rather than sour. He will wonder how he ever could betray such an exciting special woman...<P>Worth a shot. Go. Have a good time. Make memories to replace the crap from a few months ago. Adjust your attitude, even if it is just for that weekend. See what happens and let the healing begin.<P>Catnip =^^=<P><p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited May 30, 2001).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by catnip:<BR>[B] Dear lsb:<P><BR>Talk about the special times, reminisce about your history, be loving and bring (meow) black lace. Make him glad he married you and stayed with you. By doing these things, I guarantee it will inadvertantly 'punish' him more that you are sweet and sexy rather than sour. He will wonder how he ever could betray such an exciting special woman...<P> catnip, i couldn't agree more (oh my god, imagine that)<BR>Isb, you atre at a very hard stage right now your emotions are controlling you. I had a sister that died when i was 20 and I got soooooo tired of hearing" it gets better with time" until one day I talked to my doctor who had lost her 5 month old to SIDS a year before. She gave me the BEST advice i ever heard she said" time does not make things get better, right now your emotions are controlling you what time DOES is eventually allow YOU TO control your emotions." This didn't make sense to me at the time but it really does now. Please try and place the OC on the back burner and try and find the love you know you have with your husband i promise some day you will be in control of those emotions.<BR>

Dear lsb,<P>Catnip and Whatif? are 200% correct. Your emotions are controlling you but you will never take charge of them if you continue to help them control you.<P>When my H and I went to counselling, the counsellor told me that "there will never be an acceptable explanation for what he did". I would go over every detail just like you. I would check the calendar from the year before ting to match up dates and times to see if he was with her. I used to go through old boxes and clothes looking for clues.<P>But what were these clues for? To tell me my H had an affair? I knew that already. To give me an explanation for why he had done it? There was none good enough. To hurt myself more and continue to be a victim? A resounding YES! <P>In my mind, since my H could never give me a good enough excuse, the only thing I could do was keep beating him and making him say SORRY. It worked for a very long time -- at least for me. What I did not see was that I was beating the love that was left for me right out of him. No one can be beaten non-stop for months at a time. Even a dog treated that way will bite you.<P>lsb, you are blessed because your H truly wants to start over. This is not the best way to do creative marriage counselling, but if we have to go through this better to do so with a H that truly loves you and your family. He made a mistake. He has confessed the mistake and is doing everything to make it up to you. <P>There is a lot of benefit in being a victim, but believe me, as one who has been there, there are a lot more benefits to being an equal and caring partner. Don't look at old credit card statements, don't torture yourself and cause yourself any more pain. You deserve better. You deserve to move forward and be happy again.<P>Go on that trip with your H. Look into his eyes as if he is the only man in the world. Forget the OW, she's not going to be in that hotel room with you. Like Catnip said, make that men remember why he is with you and not the OW. <P>Go for it lsb! Claim your man and save your marriage. He made a mistake that's all. YOU are the love of his life -- keep that thought and make both of you happy.<P>Good luck and enjoy it.<BR>love,<BR>heavenly

ISB I have been there too. When H was out of the house first time I rifled through everything to find evidence.<P>It only hurt me more as I found nothing and wondered how good he was at hiding things....could I ever trust him again? ugh.....<P>Let me tell you I plan A'd a long time until the visit issue came up again and after I agreed to what I could he changed the rules.....he was out again for 6 weeks!<P>I guess the true closeness came when he forcefully moved home and begged me to love him...said he missed me...never realized what I meant to him until THAT DAY....did a poja with me and I let him know just one lie or failure of following it would end "US" because I had enough and would be ok without him....<P>Go away and bring the black lace whatif said.....<P>Make love as if this never happened.<P>Let him see what a truly loving and wonderful woman you are.<P>It won't be hard if you remember why you love him.<P>ISB it is a horrible thing that happened to all of us. Someday if not already your H will say to you how he doesn't know how he could have ever done this or been with her.....the feelings of intimacy will come back as he shares feelings without fear of hurting you.<P>You must be 1/2 of the help sweetie.....ok?<P>I pray for you always as I do for all of us here.<P>Peace ISB.<P>Love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

catnip, gem, heavenly, whatif, thanks for all your thoughts. I agree- I need lots of time. My H upset me last night when he was working for several hours at home, late into evening. I went to bed, hoping he would eventually come to bed. I finally got up around midnight,and there he was online, surfing a porn site. REally upset me, as he met OW online via a chat site, and got heavily into these sites long distance with some other women. I felt like-he is still doing this. Then when I told him how upset I was, he said, well, it's not the same- I wasn't chatting-( I told him that is how he started this whole mess). I see it entirely the same,and then he complained about my lack of sexual responsiveness to him in last month. I wanted to scream-you idiot-you are damn lucky you've had any sex in last 3 months given how I feel toward you, you brought this on, you have damaged our life this way, but I did not. Told him I still feel uncomfortable with him, feel nervous at times around him, feel I don't even know him.Frankly. I am not sure he knows himself.Reread parts of Torn Asunder last night, and I wish he would read the book.Says so much about WS having to feel pain of BS, understand what they have to do to wait out the emotional response of BS. I don't think he likes seeing me in pain so he acts as if I am not. Or he is not-when really, I know he must be in a lot of pain, but he never shows it to me, and if he did , I may feel closer to him. That is a way I would feel closer to him. I felt so disconnected to him last night I was going to sleep in another room, but then we talked some more, he finally said he was sorry, I said for what,a nd he said for everything.Then, go figure, we made love, which felt o.k. but not great for me. What he does not seem to get is that every day it is a struggle for me to stay with him-every day, despite my love for him, I fight to be less depressed, less angry, less disappointed in him. And with the OC issue, he doesn't seem to get how devastating that is to me. HOw he betrayed our love and life by creating a life with another woman while married to me-how I cannot deal with that for the next life I have left and doubt I ever will. HOw he has to understand to keep me and our kids with him I have to have him give OC up. HOw I resent the OW's decision to have the child at all costs-and gets tons of money from us monthly. HOw every month I see what that money takes away from our family, our kids, how it is a constant reminder of his betrayal, his life with her. HOw I hate that. How I cannot separate this innocent child from the actions which conceived her. HOw I will never be able to do it. How his actions to damage his life with us and destroy our family, when we tried so hard to have a family. How there are days I wish we didn;t have the kids so it would be easier to walk away. I've told him the minute he started the affair, he took a path that possibly started the end of us. HOw he willingly did that knowingly that ending our life, divorce, losing his contact with our kids, could happen. He admits that may have been possible. So why do I feel I have to be the one to do all to keep family together? Shouldn't her realize he has to pay the price to to keep us together? He has done so much to tear us asunder, and yet he tells me he never once thought of separation or divorce. NO, because now he cannot afford to live away from us and have a place to take our kids to if we separate/divorce. He just acts as if he will be with us, and that is all that matters. It matters, but it isn't all. He needs to see what damage he has wrought with me, and really, I am not sure who he is. Sometimes I look at him and it is as if I have no clue who he is. He is actually quite a handsome man,but lately he looks ugly at times, like a man I do not know. I know I am rambling, and I know I am in pain, and I know time will make it better, or at least I hope so. But this is so hard-and H doesn't seem to get why this is so hard for me-he keeps saying he can't change what he did, just move on. It just isn't that simple for me;<BR>WE are going away next week, alone without kids, first time we have done that since having kids.Had this not happened, I would be really looking forward to it. Now I still am afraid my emotions will get the best of me and ruin the time-and husband will just get frustrated.But I am bringing some lingerie/nice sleepwear and hope that helps. I wish for our anniversary my H would give me the only thing I want from him- What I really want I don't think he intends to give.<p>[This message has been edited by lsb (edited June 19, 2001).]

ISB it sounds as if he's still in a fog. Lord knows my H was until 3 1/2 weeks ago! Really! It's when ow wrote to me and told me he still called her throughout pregnancy. Not happy calls but calls. It infuriated me! Then he said that from that day forward there would be no more 1/2 truths, no more lies.<P>At that time he was worried she'd never take dna...etc... I finally "got it".<P>He wants me again at any cost. Maybe because I've seen it is why I saw oc and was not scared anymore. Like a mutual give and take. My jealousy and anger have left and in it's place is a closeness with my H I never felt at first.<BR>HE WAS IN A FOG no matter what he thinks. He finally acknowledges that.<P>When you feel he finally will do whatever it takes to be with you the rest will be easy.<P>AND YOU WILL KNOW.<P>You will feel it from deep within your soul.<BR>You will laugh and smile again.<BR>You will heal.<P>I pray for you ISB.<P>I wish you'd go back and read me from Nov-Feb and march!!!<P>Love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

lsb,<P>My only advice would be to not make any decisions in haste. I am sure that it feels like you have been in this mess for a long time, but you really are just beginning the path of recovery. I told myself that I would not make any decisions until one year after Dday. It has taken me a much shorter time than that to make my decision to stay and adapt to the curve ball life has thrown us, but at least I didn't feel time-pressured to get it all cleared up.<P>It took my H until about 5 weeks ago to come out of his fog and see the OW actions for what they truly were--manipulation and hysteria.<P>I hope that you can go away and make the best of your weekend. Put you game face on and pretend that you are dating again. You don't have to solve every problem right now. Give yourself time to recover a bit. Make a deal with yourself to check back in (with yourself) in a month and see if you are feeling any better. Life day by day, but make your long-term decisions month by month or even better, season by season.<P>I wish you peace,<BR>Mrs. Job

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mrs. Job:<BR>[B]lsb,<P>Isb, You have got to put the Oc issue on the back burner for a while, neither you or your husband are going to change your minds anytime soon. Work on your marriage. i was EXACTLY where you were the first 8 months. I told him the OC or me and my kids, he said "i can't promise you that" so for months ALL we focused on was the back and forth arguments of the Oc. We finally agreed not to speak of OC AT ALL for quite a while. We worked on us, our marriage and our love and guess what? We are going to be filing for shared legal custody and partial physical custody very soon. I allowed our marriage to grow and recover this is what you have to do. Agree to no contact for a set amount of time and then bring the topic up again, I was actually the one who ended up bringing the topic up because i could see the pain in my hubby's eyes from wanting to be with oc and i was finally at a point again where i no LONGER WANTED him in pain and needing him to suffer like he had made me suffer. I am in no way saying you will want to have oc in your lives at the point I am saying you can not even begin to heal marriage if all focus is on oc.

ISB you see? you are not alone in your feelings at all. Please try and focus on your marriage...please.<P>Prayers to you....<P>Love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Dear Isb, <P>I understand your pain and the way you feel regarding no contact with OC. I am 6+ months since finding out about the OW & Oc, and like you I refuse contact with OC. My husband agree in the begining that he will not have contact but a few weeks ago I found out that he was lying to me. He was having contact behind my back, you can imagine how I felt betray all over again. I became very depress, I was still dealing with my miscarriage I was ready to walk out of this marriage, but instead I listen to the ladies in this forum and did not made any decision in haste, I talk to my husband and he realize that how much he was still hurting me by his constant lies, but yet still kept in touch with ow through his cellular phone. What finally made him come out of the fog (as the ladies call it in this forum) is the last thing ow has done, she hire herself a lawyer to dig in to my husband assets, since she's not satify with the amount of support she's receiving. I knew from the begining how manipulative OW can be playing the guilt thing, she even had the nerve to call one day at 1:00 in the morning telling my H that the baby was sick in the hospital when in reality he was at home. My husband finally change his cellular number and do not want to have contact with neither of one. <P>The problem with your h as it was with mine, they were too involve in oc life since birth, so therefore for them it is too hard to forgive about oc existence. Listen to this ladies in this forum put oc issue to the back burner for now, unless H bring the issue, try to focus on your marriage. <P>I am praying for you, and your H. I hope your h come out of the fog soon. God knows it took my h 6 months, if someday OC knocks in our door, we will deal with that when it comes.<P>Good luck, in your anniversary get away!<P><BR>