To my husband, some thoughts of what I have not heard from you throughout this painful time.<P>Never once have you said you were sorry for breaking our marriage vows of fidelity. Instead you have accused me of "driving you to it". I think not.<P>Never once have you admitted that once you made the decision of having a long term affair with a woman you met online, you took the risk of breaking up our marriage, our life, the secure family we have created for our two beautiful children. Instead you said you were naively thinking you were doing something for yourself and believed you would not hurt me or the kids.<P><BR>Never once have you begged me to accept you back into my life despite the graveous mistakes you have made that drastically affect our life together. Instead you have immediately assumed we will get by this due to our life time of loving each other.<P>Never once have you said you were sorry for bringing the OW into our home, our life, meeting our kids, having sex with her in our bed. Instead you make fun of the PTSD flashbacks I have of you and her in our home , our bed, and minimize the thoughts I have of you and her during our love making. <P>Never once have you thanked me or been grateful for me giving you a second chance to heal our life, marriage, and world for our children. Instead you just assumed after you told me things would go on as they have and we would heal , I think quicker than we obviously are. Instead I feel I am the one responsible for whether we stay together or not, file for separation or divorce, etc. because you have no intention of doing so.And yet you told our son the other night, when he was mad at you and said he wanted to live only with me and his sister, " You may get your wish." <BR>That really hurt me.<P>Never once have you acknowleged the pain, shame, and damage you have done to our life, our marriage, and to me personally by having a child with another woman while married to me.Instead I hear about how you have to do right by the child, and minimize what you have to do right by me to keep our marriage. I do not think you can begin to empathize with the shame I feel being married to a man who would do this to his wife. <P>Never once have you asked me, begged me, what you can do to heal the huge rift in our life together due to what you and the OW have done to us.Our therapist asked me that question, but you have never asked. Instead I am left wondering, why does he not care to do anything that is necessary to keep us together--especially since he caused this damage? Does he not care?<P>Never once have you acknowleged the attempt I have made to increase our lovemaking despite my feelings of anger, disappointment, and sadness with you over what you have done during the last few months. Instead you get frustrated with me when our sex life drops off when I feel emotionally distant or angry with you and quickly return to the pornographic internet sites that started this tragedy in our lives. That really keeps a distance between us.<P>Never once have you acknowledged the damage and pain you have caused our kids. Instead I hear about how they will heal and forgive you despite all you have done. Even if that is true, and I pray it is, what troubles me is your lack of concern about inflicting any kind of damage on them, from of all people their father.<P>Never once have you acknowledged the true innocent victims in this situation are me , our two kids, and not just the OC. Instead you keep focusing on what you need to do for OC, and less what you need to do to heal us and keep our family and kids' life whole. Why not let the OW worry about the repercussions for the OC due to her selfish choice and you worry about our life and the repercussions on me and our kids? The OW certainly is doing nothing to salvage us or help us. But you need to.<P>Never once have you said you love me after making love since this has occurred. Instead I read it occasionally in notes or emails you send me, never in private, never in verbal words. I think you do not know if you love me and it emphasizes to me the void and distance between us.<P>Never once have you acknowledged, truly acknowledged, the pain and damage you have done to me and my sense of who I am, our marriage, our life, our family. Instead you tell me " your life is no different" which really minimizes the seriousness of this all. <P>Never once have you said you would do anything to keep our family together, keep me in your life. What about doing right by me and our kids?Do we not deserve the same or more so consideration? <P>Finally, perhaps I have been harsh with this. But it occurred to me last night that although you have said you are sorry for "everything" I think I need more specific sorries to try and get over this. And lots of time. I hope I get both from you. <P>Thoughts anyone?<p>[This message has been edited by lsb (edited June 20, 2001).]

lsb,<BR> I think theres lots there for h to think about. I gave my h letters something like this also when I was were your at. It helped us I hope it does the same for your family.<BR> with love flowerseed

Isb,<P>I wrote things like this in a journal, I let my h reead it, then we/he addressed the issues after he read them. I t helped primarily because H doesn't understand female/my perspective. He's working on it now that he's read and been told my point of view. Hope this helps some.<P>ivc

Well, Isb, I'm guessing that your H will read this…as well he should. He needs to know. I can add to it.<P>Isb's husband. I am one of the few "other women" that post to this board. I can tell you with great certainty that your obligation is to your wife and children of your marriage. I believe that you concern yourself about the other child out of guilt. That guilt is going to destroy your marriage. Let the other woman worry about the child. She made a choice to keep her baby, knowing full well that she would be going it alone. Your not being there is not the "be all and end all". The child will be fine without you, but your marriage will not. You need to commit yourself to your marriage 100%. Nothing can come before it…not even a little bit. The other woman can manage just fine without you. Let her. Trust me on that. I can do it…so can she. If you want your marriage to survive, then you need to realize that every moment of every day is a battle to overcome the damage that has been done. You need to fight that battle together…WITH YOUR WIFE. There is NO room for the other woman or other child. Whether you see it or not, they are a part of the problem. You're sabotaging your own marriage/family, and for what? Isb is your wife and the mother of your children…children that were born to you from a love and commitment that you promised to each other. She deserves a lot more than what she's getting from you. So do your kids. Honor yourself by honoring them.<BR>

Oh bratti,<BR>BEAUTIFULLY said. I am thinking that when your young man gets around to popping the question, you are going to be a wonderful wife.<P>I know, I know, too pushy. Just think of me as one of those nosy aunts...<BR>Nosetta

obratti1, you have my utmost admiration for your response to my post, your life with your situation, and your determination to do what is right for all. Thank you. May your life go the way you would like as well. I hope my H reads this post!

Ohbratti you are one heck of an ow!!! I too hope ISB's husband read your thread. He needs to wake up....now!!!<P>Isb your letter was truly from the heart.<P>I hope he wakes up before it's too late.<P>love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Isb, I'd be happy to print it for him!<BR>Godspeed!

Wow - you really said a lot of things that I would like to say to my husband. Especially about not THINKING that this would hurt our children. If you do give this to your husband please let us know what his response is.<BR> Kris

lsb,<P>That was beautifully said. You expressed yourself so clearly and emotionally. I hope that your H reads this and wakes up to what he is in danger of losing.<P>I think that what Obratti1 said is true--one fo the things tying H to the OC is guilt. I know that once the A ended, guilt became (or always was?) our OW's biggest and most painful weapon.<P>I'll bet that there have been times that you have felt misunderstood on this board. I think that this is the first time that you have let down your guard and let us see the pain behind the anger. (I am not trying to criticize here, just trying to puzzle things out.) What you wrote here seems to be a much clearer picture of who you are and where you are at. I hope you know that all of us here care for you and want the best for you. <P>Mrs. Job

lsb:<P>Two years ago I wrote a similar letter to my husband, threw in a lot of my love and devotion to him throughout the years, reminding him of our history and the good times and how deeply I loved him...perhaps you can add an addendum to this letter to remind him of the specialness of the two of you (kind of like good cop/bad cop) <P>I printed it up, left it on a table, and left town for a few days. He read it, reread it over and over agian, thought about what I wrote then left several messages on my cell phone as he had had a moment of clarity and realized the damage done to the marriage and this started our recovery. <P>It needed to be said, lsb....bravo. I hope you are feeling better because of your ability to express yourself and describe your needs and your pain to your husband. Print it up and leave it for him on the table. My husband told me that all the months of my verbally telling him did little, but the power of the printed word had amazing impact. It was the catalyst for our recovery.<P>Love <P>Catnip >^..^<

Hey guys,<P> I don't need to write these questions in a journal. They are burned into my memory, with white- hot recollection! Thanks,Isb, you have put my thoughts into words.<P><BR> God bless you, <P>------------------<BR>Gregg

Dear lsb's h,<BR>I have been doing a lot of thinking about you and lsb, especially since lsb wrote that you often point out to her the women on this forum who are able to accept oc into their lives.<P>as I am one of the wives who does want contact with the oc, I thought that perhaps you have said to lsb at one point or another, "Look, if cd can do it, why can't you?"<P>So I thought I would tell you a little bit about WHY I am able to cope with contact with oc.<P>1. I never worry about h having feelings for the ow. He has made it very clear that his relationship with her ended when we decided to recommit to the marriage. My h understands that there is room for only two people in a marriage, and ow is not one of those two people.<P>2. My h has made our marriage his number one priority. I never feel like my needs are secondary to the oc's needs, or to ow's needs. H's primary concern is that things are right between us, and since they are, then we can work together to make things better for oc. Ow's needs NEVER factor into the equation at all. she is not our concern.<P>3. My h never turns to anybody or anything else for emotional support/satisfaction. If he is feeling lonely or upset, he tells me about it, and together we work to change the way he is feeling. H knows that seeking relief elsewhere (even on the internet) is a betrayal of my trust.<P>4. My h not only puts up with my paranoid moments, he encourages me to let him know exactly what he can do to help me through them. Then he goes a step further with it. If, for example, I think that calling his work twice a day will put my fears to rest, he encourages me to call twice a day AND calls me a couple of times for good measure. Sometimes, if h senses that I am being triggered about the affair, he will simply hold me and soothe me until the moment passes.<P>5. My h is truly remorseful for what he did. He is able to see how his actions have hurt me and our children. He never fails to tell me how sorry he is, to ask how he can make things better for us in this difficult situation. and when I give him suggestions about what he can do to make things better, he does them.<P>6. My h understands that I will never completely get over the insecurity that stems from his affair. But he does what he can to help me feel more secure. He tells me several times every day that he loves me. He grabs me and kisses me often. He tells me how happy he is just to be married to me. He initiates physical contact frequently, even if it is just putting his arm around my shoulders while we are sitting on the couch, or resting his hand on my waist as we are standing in line at the grocery store, so that I always know how important being near me is to him.<P>7. My h takes full responsibility for what he did. Even though I contributed to making our marriage unhappy at the time of the affair, he acknowleges that he could have done a million other things to make it better other than turning to another woman for comfort. He never puts the blame on me or my inadequacies. I contributed to the breakdown of the marriage, but I did not make him have an affair. He chose to do that, and he takes the blame for making that choice.<P>8. My h appreciates the effort I make to improve our marriage. If I make him an nice meal, he thanks me for it. If I go out of my way to look especially pretty for him, he compliments me on my appearance. When we have sex, he never fails to tell me how wonderful it was for him.<P>9. My h has made it very clear that he is willing to sacrifice ANYTHING to keep our marriage and our family intact. If I asked him to cut off all contact with oc, he would. HOWEVER, just knowing that he would do it is enough for me. Because I am secure in knowing that our family is important to him, I don't have any need to ask him to make that sacrifice.<P>10. After we have a court date or after we see ow/oc, he tells me how much my courage has meant to him. He tells me how proud he was to have me by his side throughout the ordeal. He never lets me feel like my efforts are taken for granted.<P>11. If I have questions about the affair, h listens to them and answers them, even if I have asked the same question a hundred times before. He realizes that what I really am looking for is reassurance that he loves me and that I am the only one he wants to be with.<P>You know, lsb's h, the ironic thing about it is that the more my h works to allieve my fears about the affair and the more he works to mend the marriage, the less I really *need* him to go out of his way like that. and the less I need him to, the more secure I feel about his commitment to me. and the more secure I feel about our marriage, the more loving I become towards him. And the more loving I am to him, the more he WANTS to work hard to make our marriage strong. It turns into a circle in which we both keep putting more and more effort into each other, our love for each other keeps increasing, and the marriage just gets stronger and stronger.<P>I don't know if lsb will ever want to allow contact with oc. Perhaps she wont. I don't think that contact with oc is the right choice for everybody. But I CAN tell you that if my h didn't do all the things I described above, contact with oc would be out of the question for me. Just something for you to think about.<P>-cd

cd:<P>This is the most concise and compassionate explaination I have ever seen describing both the requirements and the reasons for willingness to acquiesce and work together I have ever seen. In addition, your husband really, really 'gets it', doesn't he? I am also bowled over by your courage to acknowledge and admit where you contributed to the problem. <P>I just read your excellent post to QM and this post along with the other post makes for a perfect chapter for any handbook on compromise for recovery after the destruciton of an affair and the blueprint to true rebuilding.<P>Bravo, bravo, bravo...<P>lsb...print this puppy up...<P>Catnip >^..^<

Wow CD! That was sooooooooooo wellput! <P>I hope you're reading this ISB's HUBBY! Because what CD said is very much like how my H has been in recovery, and it makes the difference between recovery... and NOT. If my H were not as CD's, not only could I not tolerate any contact with XOW/OC (we're long distance so ours is very miminal), but I don't think I'd tolerate being married!<P>J, 2+years recovered!

Thanks all for posts. I do not think H has seen my post yet, but one day he will or I will print it out for him..And, the fact I want nothing to do with OW, For the record, had the shoes been on the other foot, and I had had the affair, I would have given up the child and done anything to make it right between H and I =-because what he felt, thought, and how it would affect our current kids conceived in our marriage would have always taken precadent. And that continues for me today. I would give a child up I conceived in an affair if my H couldn;'t deak with it because my love for H, however it was misguided during the affair,would have superseded any love I had for this child, and the love I had for my kids in the stable marriage would supersede that as well. I would trust the OW would do what is best for child since she made decision to have child at all costs, knowing H may not be available as father and she did not choose adoption/that is how I feel. I am doing what is best for my kids, my family, my healing, my life. I cannot think of OC now-I have way too much on my plate and many days I think my plate is too full for me to handle. The OW does nothing to help my family heal but fortunately has left us kind of alone. I pray she continues to do so.The minute she interferes in our life, I will insist we move, and then my H will have a tougher time,a s his job has been long term, he has much to lose to quit job. He just doesn't seem to get we all lose something in this horrible mess, I have many losses, so too does he, so to does OW and OC. NO one is unscathed, I am just trying to stop the ones I have control over .<P>[This message has been edited by lsb (edited June 19, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by lsb (edited June 20, 2001).]

Dear lsb,<P>Sigh....<P>lsb, my post wasn't about changes your h needs to make in order to persuade you to have contact with the oc. It was about things he could do to restore you love and trust in him. Oc, contact or not, does not even count when it comes to this. Right now, you think that the oc issue is the most important thing in the world. But I tell you, lsb, it is the LEAST important thing right now. <P>I know that you think that you are focusing on the marriage itself, lsb, but I think that you are still making oc the pivotal point in whether or not you stay with your h. Honey, that is putting the cart before the horse. You have to repair the marriage first. It is the ONLY thing that matters. If you two are not able to save the marriage, the question of contact with oc is moot anyway.<P>Since I went through the process of making your h a nice list of the things my h does to make me feel secure in our marriage, I will do the same for you. Here are some of the things I do for my h that helps us in our lives together.<P>1. Every day I tell my h how happy I am to have married him. I tell him what an honor it is to be his wife. I tell him how with each passing day he becomes more sexy and attractive to me. I tell him that his kisses makes me weak in the knees, that his touch makes my heart pound. I tell him that he is MY man and that I love him no matter what. And I mean it.<P>2. I see my h for the man he is, not the mistakes he made a long time ago. I compliment him on his efforts to work hard to make a good life for us. I focus on what he is doing NOW, not on what he did THEN. <P>3. When I get angry about something related to ow/oc, I talk to him about it in a nonconfrontational manner. And I tell him exactly what would make me feel better about it. My h is not psychic, and he cannot read my mind. I can't expect him to automatically know what I need from him. The more I spell out my needs, the easier it is for him to meet them. <P>4. Similarly, when h is upset about something, I ask him what I can do to help him through it. Often, he is just looking for reassurance that I plan to stay in the marriage regardless of what life brings us. We do not always agree on what to do, but we always agree that what ever we decide, we will do it TOGETHER.<P>5. I do everything I can to make our home a warm and pleasant place for him to come home to. I'm not saying my house is immaculate (it's not!) but he comes home to a smiling wife that meets him at the door with a kiss and a hot meal in the oven. I usually have his lounge pants, robe, slippers, and a warm towel waiting in the bathroom so that he can shower and relax. Sometimes, I even draw his bath for him. I want my h to feel like this home, humble as it is, is indeed his castle.<P>6. I put the children to bed by 7:30 or 8:00 every night so that h and I have private time together. During this time, we often turn off the TV and play cards or talk. It doesn't really matter what we do, just that we have the chance to reconnect with each other.<P>7. When we are making love, I do not entertain thoughts of ow and what she did with my h. I would be horrified to think he was thinking of her during our intimate moments, so why should I? Our love life belongs to us alone, and I make sure that I help to keep it that way.<P>8. On a related subject, I rarely turn my h down when he wants sex. I have learned that it is a vital way for him to feel connected to me. Sometimes I do feel too tired or emotionally spent for a long, drawn-out lovemaking session, but I have learned to appreciate the passion and fury that comes with a "quickie". I am ALWAYS up for a "quickie".<P>9. And I often initiate sex. Probably 7 times out of 10, I will be the one that starts it. Men need to feel desired just as much as women do. and I try to be spontaneous about when/where/how our encounters happen. Variety is indeed the spice of life.<P>10. I try not to throw the past in his face too often. Once in a while I slip and have a fit over a "trigger", but it is important to me that h not spend the rest of his life paying for the mistakes that he made. He is paying for them enough in so many ways, I don't want (or need) to add to the punishment. I am his refuge from the storm - just as he is mine.<P>11. I forgive him. I understand that he made a very bad choice. But I can either forgive him or hate him forever for it. I choose forgiveness. H cannot go back in time and change what has been done. all he can do is change what happens from here on out. In order for him to do that, he has to be secure in knowing that I am behind him 100%, come what may.<P>12. We make new memories to override the old ones. This is so important. The more new memories you make together, the less the old ones will matter to you.<P>Lsb, I hope that you and your h will be able to put aside your differences on the contact/no contact issues and focus on what is really important. I WAS once in your shoes, not knowing whether or not my marriage was worth the effort. But I can tell you quite honestly that every once of effort I have made has been rewarded in a million ways. Your marriage will NEVER be the same as it was before the affair. But it can be BETTER.<P>Good luck on your weekend away together.<P>with love,<BR>cd

Cd, I thank you for your suggestions, and You have given me lots of ideas-but I know I am reluctant to try and do some because I do not feel them yet. How long did it take you to got to where you did love your husband again? I am afraid my love is very tarnished for him. I hurt. I am not sure I will love him as I once did, but know for now I do not love him as I once did.The affair and OC has really damaged my love for him, hope with time and committment on both our part it will return.But it is not there yet. And because of that, it is hard to do some of what you suggest now. Very hard. The time away is a start and maybe it will jump kick our return to a happier and more loving marriage-but it will take a lot of time. My h's affair was 3 years long, and except for a few things I think about, he is not that different now than during affair.Which makes me realize how little I knew him then. But I am very different-very gun shy, very nervous around him, very anxious he will give me more hurt. <BR>I am going to try and do things he will like-I have done more around house, he did most of that stuff and now I am doing more of my fair share, I think, and am trying to be more available to him, but I know I have failed miserably at times. I just do not know how to connect with him when I feel conflicted with him.Anyway, thanks for your suggestions.And how long did it take for you to do some of the things you suggest? At what point in your recovery? It seems an awful lot to do, only 4 months into discovery. <p>[This message has been edited by lsb (edited June 20, 2001).]

Dear lsb,<BR>I'll be honest with you - it took a long time. I am five years into this. When I was only four months into it, I was a wreck, much worse than you seem to be.<P>But the things that I wrote are still valid for you, even though you may not feel up to them now. Back then, I used to wish that I knew somebody - anybody - who had been through this that could tell me that it all *could* work out someday. It can work out.<P>I also wanted somebody to tell me how I could go about being a better wife so that this kind of thing never happened again. Lord knows I didn't know how. It took lots of trial and error to come up with ideas that worked for me. <P>Your love for h will never be the same. If that is what you are looking for, forget it. The days of innocent trust and uncomplicated love are over. That sounds harsh, but it is the cold hard truth. And that's what you want, isn't it? The truth. BUT, it is also the truth that you can replace the lost love with new love. You will have to work for it. It will be the hardest thing you ever do, allowing your heart to be open again to the pain, allowing yourself to be vulnerable again. But it WILL be worth it. Everything in life that is worthwhile has a price. <P>Look at my list as a goal to shoot for. You are not going to be able to implement many changes overnight. Start with one thing. Then when you feel comfortable with it, add something else. You don't even have to go by MY list. Make one of your own with your personal goals that describes how you would want to treat your h someday. <P>I suggest you start by telling your h that you love him. Say it even if you don't feel it, because I can guarantee that as confused as you are right now, you DO love him. If you didn't, you would have waved goodbye to the marriage a long time ago.<P>I KNOW you can get through this lsb. I am rooting for you all the way. Keep your eye on the prize and don't let yourself be distracted by anything else (meaning oc). You'll get there!<P>much love,<BR>cd

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