Dear MB friends, <P>I'm 2 and 1/2 years past Dday #1 and over 1 1/2 years past Dday #2 (same affair). As time passes, I find myself more and more disillusioned with H and the marriage that I thought we had. Since counselor has diagnosed him as having Narcissistic Personality Disorder, I have done lots of reading about the disorder and what it means for those who love people w/NPD, and my future looks pretty grim.<P>Much of the time I find myself mentally planning life without him. I have begun to detach emotionally (which isn't too difficult with a NPD individual, because they give so little there isn't much to lose.)<P>Thoughts?<P>love, anniem<P>

I am sad for you, yet you just put it in a nutshell: "because they give so little there isn't much to lose".<P>If your best girlfriend described this to you, what would you say? <P>I'd say I'm so sorry you're going through this but it sounds like you'll be happier without him. If a cure were likely, if he hadn't cheated too, if if if... May your heart be set FREE. Godbless<BR>

anniem:<P>I wonder how much NPD and Bipolar cross over to each other. I believe that my husband, while bipolar, exhibits a lot of NPD traits and his behavior is symptomatic of both disorders.<P>You are absolutely right, anniem...when you get so little in return, there isn't much to loose. Sometimes we stay longer than we should because we hate to loose, we hate change, we may be insecure from years of living with men like these, we put up with a lot and then do all the work to repair damage.<P>If you read QM's thread, I wrote about how difficult a time I am having living with my husband's continuous bouts of alcoholism. It is exhausting to start to feel positive and start to relax, trusting he is working a program of revoery and working to maintain sobriety and enjoy the recovery only to have it ripped away from you once again, leaving you with no security or stability or safety. And when it is all about them...well, hey, now I want it to be all about me before I die. I have gone without for so long, I feel as though I am disappearing.<P>We need nurturing, too, anniem, and if we can't get it from spouse, we can give it to ourselves if they refuse to give it to us. What we are constantly giving them can be rerouted and given to ourselves ....until there comes a time when perhaps we get lucky and CHOOSE a good man.<P>So, we have to learn to choose wisely next time...don't go for what scratches the itch or the hot sex, but find someone stable, loving, mature and has a generous heart. <P>Sometimes after being with these man-children and suffering the devastation at their hands, we mature ourselves and begin to appreciate the men that we rebuffed for the 'exciting' ones. The terrible things we have endured have simply prepared us for a mature relationship, if we are not desperate and needy, we will choose wisely.<P>Personally, I look forward to being on my own for the rest of my life and not have a man around again taking up all my time and taking away from my grown kids and grandkids. I sacrificed so many for him and as a result, I put distance between me/us and them because I didn't want them around him when he was drinking. But, that's another story.<P>While I watch what happens over the next six months, I will be making preparations to move forward. I hope my husband will pull it together because I have invested so much of myself into this marriage and into this recovery, that it would be a shame if it were all for nothing, however, my mindset is such that I am now mentally strong enough to move forward alone if I have to.<P>anniem, I will pray for you during your decision making process and keep you in my thoughts and send you cosmic support. While you determine if your husband is worthy of you and whether or not you stay with him, know you have options and you have a support system and we are all here for you.<P>Love<P>Catnip >^..^<

anniem,<P>i like jenny's advice. i try to do that to sometimes, imagine what i would tell my best friend if she came to me with my thoughts and problems. your words are very true to, it is hard to continually give in a marriage and never get back. a marriage needs participation of both parties, and without that, it is not a good outlook.<P>my prayers for you anniem.<P>happy_girl

[QUOTE]Originally posted by catnip:<BR>[B]anniem:<P>I wonder how much NPD and Bipolar cross over to each other. I believe that my husband, while bipolar, exhibits a lot of NPD traits and his behavior is symptomatic of both disorders.<P>Here's a bit of psychiatry that my counselor and I went over a couple of weeks ago. Having NPD or Bipolar does not rule out having the other. You can have one diagnosis on each Axis if I understand the whole scheme properly.<P>In psychiatric diagnosis there are different "axis"<BR>Axis 1 includes depression, mania, paranoia (I think), bioplar (the diagnosis if there has been one manic episode and one depression ever in their life), shizophrenia, etc. Think of them as the chemical aspect of psychiatry. There are drugs that are more or less effective against these chemical problems.<P>On Axis 2 are the personality disorders <BR>* Narcissistic (we've discussed that here), <BR>* Dependent (won't make decisions on their own, depends on others for sense of self), <BR>* Schizoid (not the same as Schizophrenia, they are not interested in being in relationship with others, they live in a world of an obsessive need to be right, educated or something, and usually cannot maintain a relationship with another person), <BR>* Compulsive (must have everything neat and in order, struggle to put world in order), <BR>* Borderline Personality Disorder, etc. <P>And don't forget my favorite and current self-diagnosis (Doormat Personality Disorder). <P>Personality disorders are harder to treat. Many with personality disorders won't seek treatment (especially the NPD people) and there are no magic pills as personality disorders are a combination of genetics, intelligence, upbringing, and life forces. Some of these disorders run in families and no one knows yet how much of it is learned and how much of it is genetic. It requires a great deal of time and effort on the part of the affected person to work hard in therapy to modify behavior and to soften the edges of their personality disorders. Many people who have a bit of an ego and then find great success in life can get pushed over into NPD. If they had been less successful in life they might have become less grandeous (pretending to be bigger and more important than they are). I have read that almost all Hollywood super stars develop NPD. Fame does change them.<P>I think that there are other axies in psychiatric diagnosis, but I can't find much about them on the web. For those who are interested the psychiatric diagnostic manual is called the DSM-IV. You can find it online. NPD was only made an official personality disorder in 1985, but narcissism has been long discussed in the field as far back as the Victorian age.<P>Mrs. Job, the woman who practices medicine w/o a license. <P>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Job (edited June 04, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Job (edited June 04, 2001).]

anniem I think you SHOULD ask yourself the questions as if a friend were asking you. Maybe you'd be happier on your own. <P>Perhaps you will know the answers if a friend asked you for advice and you were to answer.<P>I will continue to pray for God to show you the path to walk,bless you anniem.<P>Love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

anniem,<BR>I can do you one better than even that very sound advice. Instead of thinking of it as a friend asking you these questions, imagine that it is your child (all grown up, of course) coming to you for advice. For me that makes things very clear very quickly. If it was your child asking you whether or not he/she should stay in the marriage, what would you advise? <BR>-cd