H and I are having some good times and bad times. 6 weeks since d-day, OW 10 weeks pregnant. My H keeps swearing to me that he had told me the whole truth about his A. 2 1/2 year friendship, they only had sex once and she got pregnant. Does anyone else have a problem with this. Am I going crazy??? I keep finding out more and more, like places they went, to the beach overnight (this is when OW got pregnant) Then I found some hallmark cards that weren't written in yet, and he swears they were for me, just not sent yet. But they are not like any cards he has ever given me. They say, even though we can't be together, blah, blah, blah...after telling me for two days he NEVER sent her a card, he admits he did send her two, friendship type cards. Why don't they understand we just want the whole truth all at once!! It's driving me crazy!! How do you get the whole story, do you need the whole story. I feel I do, because he is trying to convince me it was just a friendship, no romance, but it just doesn't make sense to me, he may be trying to spare me hurt, but I feel like it's continued deception.<P>Okay, now to my main question. Yesterday H said the she was a friend, a good friend. (I'm coping this from his e-mail to me) He has concern for her and the child she carries. He wants them to be safe and healthy. YUCK!! Where was his concern for me and our 3 y/o D. How much, if any should I expect my H to be involved in the pregnancy? What if OW tries to contact him with "updates" or tries to get his medical history?? What if she wants him to attend birth??<P>Any help on how I should respond would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.

Wow! I think I would tell my H that I have lots of friends but I haven't doinked them. (I forget who came up with that word on this board.) It seems rather insulting to you for him to insist that she's "just a friend."<P>I think that there is no set one thing that you "should" do. I think that you must do what is first and foremost right for you and your marriage. The OW's needs have to be way, way down at the bottom of the list. One of the Harley principles is no contact with the OW (or OM), but we have never seen him address what you do when there is an OC or a pregnancy involved. I only found out about his A after the birth of OC, so I am not speaking from experience, but I would be fit to be tied if my H had told me he wanted to attend the birth. IMO any contact with OW must involve both of you.<P>Many WS (wayward spouses) tend to tell the truth in dribs and drabs. I agree that the continued deception is very hard to deal with and often infuriating. I think it is important to stress to your H that you have already experienced the worst pain (that he had an affair)-- -- and that continued dishonesty only makes it more difficult to begin to build trust again. I know that my H thought that he was shielding me from further pain and it took us a long time to work this one out. He lied about a couple of major points of his A and when I found out differnt, I was furious. Maybe the rule could be that he doesn't have to volunteer information, but that any question you ask must be answered honestly. <P>I think one thing we have to consider is how we, as the BS, react when we are told new details. I know that I was in a real anger phase, and my H was afraid of my verbal attacks, and to be really totally honest I was really crossing the line into verbal abuse. If you really want truth, there has to be an environment where the WS doesn't feel like he is going to get clobbered for bringing out further details. Really tough thing to do, huh?<P>In her book, After the Affair, Janis Spring, warns against asking for details that are later going to haunt you. I made a conscious decision to not go for too much detail. At one point my sister said "Mrs. Job (they always call me that, we are a very formal family) you are never going to know every detail of the affair and you are going to make yourself crazy trying to find it all out." In my case, I was trying to track down every cent that he had spent on her. Each newly discovered large expense (like the top-of-the-line washer and dryer, or the expenses for a professional move for her to return to her home state so she could be near her family) was a trigger for another rage on my part. At the end of it all, it turned out to be not worth it. The money was gone, there was still plenty in our checking account, and my playing detective wasn't serving either of us. I made a decision to stop tracking down details.<P>Hope this helps.<P>Mrs. Job<p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Job (edited June 06, 2001).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MoJo7:<BR>[BDuring the pregnancy your hubby does not have to be involved at all, that is a decision for the TWO of you to make and I would say any involvment would mean you too. He doesn't have to be involved once baby is born unless she files for cs and for medical records, some states will force medical info to be disclosed.

MoJo,<P>I don't think there is any reason, what-so-ever, for your H to be involved in OW's pregnancy! If he is dedicated to rebuilding your marriage, the last thing he should be doing is going to this person's Dr. appointments and such. She has chosen to have this child, without thought to you and your family, she should do it on her own. As for being sure the baby is healthy, that is also up to the OW. Who's to say that she won't fabricate different problems, just to have your H jump to her beck and call? He needs to concentrate on you and your family. Repair that damage before this baby is born. At that time, you should both agree to contact, if any, and not before then. Also, don't pay out anything until the DNA tests are done! That way, you aren't stuck holding the bag.<P>Just my opinion.<P>Tigger

It's "BOINKED" Mrs Job.<P>Mojo H's are funny about details. If you act enraged they do lie.....<P>Love<BR>Debi

Hi - I don't want to be the vioce of doom but the voice of reality.....it is early in the whole scheme of things. It has been my experience (that's the only way I can honestly judge) that a lot of lying occurs after D-Day. Is it to protect themselves? us ? or what they are afraid or? afraid of losing? Or can they not bear the truth themselves? I'm not really sure. I'd say get into counseling together and separate ASAP. Also (from my experience again) the Ws spouse is on their own time frame and not neccesarily ours. Hope I'm not being too harsh, but I think when I was in your spot I listened to the people who had positive things to say and ignored the realists. I'm just saying there is a loooong way to go. Some people told me it would take a long time but I never really expected that. Right now I am over 1 year since D-Day, 10 months since Plan B and we have recently started counseling toghether. So it't ain't over till it's over as they say.<BR> Kris

Hello,<BR>I am new here, I have been reading for a couple weeks, just not brave to speak up yet due to my own pain.<BR>I think what the others have said is right on target, (they offer such great advice I have been reading, thank you girls)and also for him to try and make this sound like she was just a good friend to you only is a line, a bad one I might add.like it was already said....do you "boink" all your friends ? no! at least normal people do not!now that I think of it, I never would boink "any" friend. gesh<BR>I feel that No, husbands should "NEVER" be at the birth!(of oc)<BR>they can not ask to have the same rights as if they were married to the mother of the child and this were normal.<BR>they should have thought of all that before they get into this mess.<BR>the birth is too much of a "bonding" issue,(for the parents) and his being there will do nothing for the baby."NOTHING"!!!! there is nothing he can do to help the bay in labor or the delivery.... it happens with or without him just the same.the only reason he would be there is for the other womans needs and a bonding time for them. so no way !<BR>years ago most fathers never were allowed in for the birth, our mothers were dropped off and dads sent home to wait, and "we" all turned out ok and do not hold our fathers on a bad list for not being there, do we ? no! we could care less. I never have said gee oh dad you missed my birth, how could you?. and my husband missed one of our kids births due to it going fast and he did not reach the Hospital from work due to trafic, that daughter is 16 now and could always have cared less,she was not hurt or feeling less of a bond to him. her and the others just joke about dad missing her's. the only one who "might" care is the other woman,(tough) and she has not right to ask for him there, she knew he was married so can not ask for the rights as if they were a family!he knew he was married too, he should not try to guilt you by asking to be there for this.<BR>also many times birth fathers have been away in the military or for jobs and have not been around for the pregnancy , and the pregnancy goes fine without him there,as does the birth.....so I do not like when they try and say they "have" to be active in the pregnancy and Doctor visits ect, or making sure she takes care herself....it is bull....they may "want" to be, but a want and "need" are two differant things! Im sure ow is stupid for messing with a married man and getting knocked up, but she is not so stupid she will forget to eat or drink for nine months.<BR>our husbands have a family and wife already, they do not need (or have a right)to keep playing two rolls in two lives, to do so is selfish and holding on to the "A" I feel. also there is nothing medical the Doctors could need from the birth father while she is pregnant that would harm the pregnancy or baby....nothing (ask the OB nurse on this list)if the woman has the RH factor they will learn that from a blood test "not" the man for example! and if you have that they give you a shot during pregnancy and at the babys birth, nothing is needed from the man.(he has done enough thank you, Mr Idiot).<BR>so that is how I feel, "NO" he should not go for the visit's to the Doctor, holding her hand for nine months, or for the birth.<BR>and "NO" he should not be trying to blow this mess off to he and the ow were/are best frieds,thats all, and this is normal and ok. <BR>Im so sorry for your pain, and what your going through....just remember "YOU" have not done anything wrong,<BR>he made this mess, and if he does not like how he has to do things now, too bad, he should have thought of that "BEFORE"<BR>and he has only himself to yell at and kick for it!<BR> MRS LOUIS<P><BR>

mojo,<BR> I to do not believe there is any need for h to have anything to do ow preg. His obligations are to you no one else. Only friends Oh the things they say. Hang in there mojo it just takes time to work threw all this. <BR> Gem do you suppose things flying threw the air at h falls under the line acting enraged . I never was able to keep things under control for a very long time. <BR> with love flowerseed

MoJo,<P>Ditto...what everyone else said. The ow in my case actually whined to my H.."you were there for your other wives" (concerning the births) puleez ...they have no wively rights (is that a word?). He has no responsibility to ow\oc at this point and he never has any responsibility to ow. After the birth at some point in time his medical history might be relevant, but my oc is almost 2 and H's medical history has never come up.<BR>Of course they were friends if it was an emotional relationship...my H told ow he loved her. yuck. So what...I dont care if he said she was his best friend. You are his best friend or should be and maybe one of the reasons why you are not is bc he still has her in that position. I will emphasize again...no contact. He can do nothing for the child now.<BR>Lots of prayers for your family,<BR>bw

In a calm communicative moment, you might share that a real friend would not try to destroy your marriage and relationship with any kids you already have. Ditto what other said--no need to be in the pregnancy, the delivery, etc. and any visitation must be by joint agreement with your involvement.<P>Gotta run for now. Best wishes,<BR>J

Thank you all!!<P>Mrs. Job, "doinked" I love that! And it's also a very good point.<BR>Gem, your're right, I think H is telling me more now because I have been containing my rage a little better.<BR>Tigger, very good straight up advice, thanks!<P>whatif, QM, flowerseed, bw, and Jenny, thanks so much, it all helps.<P>Mrs Louis, welcome, please post your story, the help here is invaluable, it really helps.

For the last time you guys....it's Boinked not doinked....and you are welcome mojo.<P>My H has revealed sooo much this last month. I'll fill you in sometime.<P>Love Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

I know it is "boinked" but someone here on this site has been saying "doinked." I thought it was cute and assumed that she was trying to get around the automatic censor. Who knows maybe it was a simple typo. <P>Mrs. Job

doinked, doinked, doinked he he he. Do a search on "doinked." I am not the only one. Now take a deep breath and go boink your husbands ladies. <P>MJ

Just wanted to jump in and give my advice on getting to the real truth. I heard the suggestion here early after my d-day last december. The advice was not to bring up the affair everyday. Even though so early after d-day it's all we think of. Instead, arrange a day where you two are all alone for the day. In advance write up every single detail you could ever imagine. Every question you could possibly utter. And on that pre-arranged day you ask them all. <P>You get him to agree to this day by telling him that your imagination is haunting you and the details you've imagined are most likely far worse than the actual truth. You must also promise to not ask anymore questions after this day. <P>(I actually broke this promise. When the OW dropped some bombs on me, I ran to H to find out if they were true. The were and he had forgotten to tell me. I told him if I found out anymore stuff he renigs on his right to not get questioned anymore. He came all the way clean that day. Even offered up stuff I hadn't asked about.)<P>Another point that might help convince him to agree to "truth day" is telling him how hurt you'd be if OW happens to tell you these details that you didn't know in advance. I told him that she has the power of knowledge over me and I couldn't stand that. I told him he owed me the right to eliminate her power. One note: when OW tries to be a bytch and drop some stuff she thinks will hurt me, it's a great rush to say, "oh yeah, he told me all about that." You should see the look on her face.<P>The most important point to remember during this day is you MUST keep your cool. Control the crying as best you can. By all means show no anger. Because honey, get ready to hear some stuff that will rock you out of your socks.<P>But after you hear it all you must committ to yourself to let it go. I wrote everything he told me on a paper a few days later and burned it. <P>I still get those triggers that spark up a memory of something he told me. But I don't throw them in his face and I try best to keep my down and sad moods away from him. The last thing I need is him feeling guilty and withdrawing. I need him to keep positive energy flowing my way.<P>Now as for that OW involvement during pregancy. Take this opportunity to ask your husband to spend the pregnancy focusing on healing your marriage. You are blessed with the time to not deal with OC and visitation while trying to heal your marriage. I was not so lucky. My OC was 8months at D-day and we had to tackle the visitation issues before we could even get started on the marriage. Seize these months for you. Tell your husband you will better be able to support him in his decisions on how you two will handle his child if your marriage is solid and committed.<P>I hope some of what we said helps.<P>------------------<BR>Zebra Baby ...<P>Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.<p>[This message has been edited by zebrababy (edited June 06, 2001).]

My recommendation-do not let H attend birth, go to medical appointments, etc. I wish I had known about pregnancy at time, but only found out about affair and OC 1 year after birth. H did go to birth, with my knowledge, thinking he was helping a friend-yichh! He actually attended the birth while his motherinlaw was visiting-it makes me sick just thinking of it. H says he bonded immediately with baby, as a result, he tried to do fatherly thing, went to baptism, took child to some doctor';s appointments, actually babysat her with my kids in attendance, all the while I was not around. It sickens me every time I think of it. H believed he had to do right thing by child, but I think what happened is it lengthened affair and he would have ended it a long time prior had not pregancy and birth occurred. I think also OW believed we would somehow be one big happy family once I knew. What a crock of s---! For me, it just shows how much power the affair and birth of child had over H. And how far away he was from me and thoughts of hurting me and our kids were way down the line. He says he was hoping it would go away-what was he thinking, and didn't tell me claiming he was protecting me. Please-he was protecting the life he had with me, because I think he knew I would not tolerate any of this at all and stay with him.So, now we are dealt witht his huge mess,a huge monthly CS payment, and a child he has bonded with. Of course, now that he has not seen her in 4 months or so, I doubt child remembers him,but OW has photos of them together and I am sure is trying to have her remember him.It really upsets me no end. And it has made the recovery or start of recovery for me and H doubly difficult- I still am not sure where we are at exactlu.<P>So my recommendation is no contact, work on marriage, and tell H your family and your are priority if wants marriage to survive. You are the one he is living with, married to, not OW.