What do you do in a situation when there's the OW with the OC and you are married to your H and have a family of your own? The OW doesn't want anything to do with you, only your H. She's been the OW for many years now, is quite younger than me and knew that my H was married with a family of his own when the relationship had started years ago. I've never known her to have any other relationship with another man and have the strong feeling that she's waiting for my H.<P>Any input from anyone out there with a similar situation???

Full of Grace your H must not let her dictate how things will be done. I answered you under whatif's post.<P>It doesn't matter how many years or ages. It matters you two are committed to each other. It should only be about the C and your H, not ow and H.<P>Got it? Good!<P>One thing is someday in the future they will probably talk business like about C....just not now, ya know?<P>Love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Debi,<BR>Thanks for the input. H doesn't let OW dictate him, although she tries. She tends to use the OC as an excuse, but he's on to her. It just pisses us off that she's that way. And although I shouldn't do it, I sometimes rub it in that if he didn't do what he did, we wouldn't be in this predicament. It still hurts when I think of the simple fact that there was another woman haaving his child. And to rub salt in the wound, my last child and hers is 5 months apart.<BR>Well, just had to get this off my chest.<BR>Thanks.....

FofG,<BR>Welcome to the board! My H and I made it clear to XOW that we are dealing with OC as a COUPLE: period, and after some testing and emotional blackmailing, she caved. Some couple require the XOW to deal with wife ONLY! If she doesn't like it, the courts or a mediator should back you up, but it doesn't sound like you've had any court proceedings, eh? Are you paying ch-support? Are you in a state where she can ask for back ch-support? Avoiding the legalities here can sometimes hurt financially. I think avoiding the DNA is also hurting you in the long run. If you face it, you can mourn, settle the other legalities, straighten out visitation, etc. In fact, conflict avoidance is a common reasons for affairs, including my H's, and can be addressed in counseling. Have you guys read any recovery books or had counseling? Is your H spending time at XOW's to see child? It sounds like your H IS doing well, but seeing XOW alone is NOT recommended by counselors. Don't let this XOW jerk you guys around. <P>I gotta go. More later,<BR>J, 2+years in recovery

Full of Grace,<P>Welcome to our little group here. I hope you get as much out of this group as I have gotten. Post often and bring your anger here and let it out. <P>I have to agree with the others that OW not be the one calling the shots. Ours did for the first 6 months. Just recently my H made the comment that he thinks her purpose all along (although he told her it would never happen) was to get him to divorce me and marry her. I think that he is finally beginning to see her as I see her; as I think that she truly is--broken, confused, dysfunctional and manipulative. But heavens! what havoc she played in our lives in the beginning.<P>Mrs. Job

Mrs. Job,<P>Thanks for the welcome. I look forward to your comments and advice. The more I read, the more I feel like I'm not the only one with this sort of problem. I'll be chatting with you later.<P>Thanks,<P>Full of Grace...

Dear Grace,<P>I am real bad about finding other posts but i will go and look for it so I know a little more about you. But you have come to the right place my dear. Most of us here are dealing with the same situation. I ahve known about A and Oc for over 2 years now. Found out in the same breath just about. Oc is almost 2. We ahve no contact now, but when we did my H was still in teh fog. Thought he had to be friends with ow. Well ow screwed that up and when he cut contact she assumed we wouldnt help her financially so within a week she filed for child support. We filed back for joint custody and seh dropped her own case. Then she moved and refused to give new address. She is very dramatic. And I have the emails where she refuses to do so. So hence no contact with ow or oc. H is way out of the fog now and if they ever came back into out life all transactions from her would be through me and only me. I call the shots now. I let the 2 of them walk all over me and now I am out of shock and will not be treated that way again.<P>Anyway just a tidbit of my story. How are you and hubby doing now? Counseling? Support groups? Read any good books lately..lol? <P>Love and Prayers<BR>broken_wings

Broken Wings,<P>It was nice hearing from you. I am sooo glad that I've checked out this website. A good friend of mine recommended it to me. Wish I found it years ago when I really needed it. I found out that the OW was pregnant when she was about 7-8 months and I was about 3 months pregnant with my 4th child. Boy, what a suprise that was. I always thought about "what if...." but I didn't actually think my H was stupid enough to let it happen. And what made it worse was that he didn't tell me, I had to find out through someone else. And even then, I didn't want to believe it. So, I confronted my H and he didn't deny it. I was more hurt than angry. <P>You see, I thought long and hard about having another child. I wanted to be sure that my marriage was strong and that my H had the OW out of his system. The last time we had major problems was about 7-8 years ago and of course the same OW was involved. But, I loved my husband and we decided to stick together and make it work. It was hard, and there were many times that I didn't trust him and knew that she was still calling him. And yet, I still held on. I wasn't about to let her get the best of me or him. I had too much to lose and I felt that I needed my husband (it was that insecure feeling that I wouldn't make it alone).<P>And you know what, I actually started to feel that it was finially over with them and that was when we decided to have another baby. My pregnancy didn't last long though. I had a miscarriage during my first trimester (he didn't tell me that the OW was pregnant). I was so devastated that I wanted to try again. My H agreed and within the next couple of months, I was pregnant again (he still didn't tell me about the OC). So, that is why, when I finially found out about her that I was so hurt. I would not have gotten pregnant the first time if I had known. I probably would have left my H, and he knew it. He actually admitted to me that he didn't want to tell me about her because of the miscarriage and then when I wanted to try again, he still couldn't tell me. He knew that I would leave him. So, like a fool, I stayed and accepted that my H got the OW pregnant and when the OC came along, I accepted it with open arms. Couldn't help it, you can't blame the child. It's not the childs fault that its parents are stupid. Oh, it hasn't been easy...Especially, since the child looks just like her mother. I just hope that she doesn't act like her.<P>Now, the problem we're having is that she's sueing my H for CS and full custody of the OC. Now, we've been paying CS since the OC was born and we would also buy diapers, milk, food, etc... (which I have receipts and cancelled checks for). I told my H that maybe it's a good thing that he finially go through the court system. Now, he can fight for joint custody (thanks for mentioning that, I didn't even think of that). My H thinks that she'll back off when she finds out that we're going to fight for joint custody. I can guarantee that she doesn't or wouldn't like the ideal that we would be able to have the OC for the weekend. She would pitch a fit. I don't think that the judge would side for her either. Especially when the OC has a father and a step-mother that loves her and provides for her. What do you think? I'll just be happy if she could find her own man and get on with her life...<P>Well, enough of me...Tell me about yourself...<P>Bye for now,<P>Full of Grace

P.S. Have any of you read "Surviving the Affair", by Harley & Chambers? I highly recommend it. It has a lot of good tips in there.<P>Bye...

Jenny,<P>You know, you're right... Conflict avoidance is not good. I actually feel that if I had really done something when the affair had started, maybe I would not be in the predicament I'm in now. But you know what, after all of the s--t I've been through, I know I am a stronger person. The OW likes to try to pull this s--t where she calls our house or our office and pretends to cry and act like there is some kind of emergency so I would have my H call her back right away. Yeah right... Oh, I tell him that she called, and he tells me that if she can't tell me what's wrong then it's not important. He told her several times not to call unless it's important (something to do with the OC). She's such a dramatic b-tch, that I laugh at her. It's so pathetic.<P>I thought about conseling, but my H doesn't feel that we need it. I personally feel that he just doesn't want anyone to know our business. Me, I like to talk with others. It helps me to heal and get things off my chest. I just cant keep it bottled up. If I did, I honestly think that someone would get hurt.<P>How is your situation? How did you deal with it? Would like to hear from you...<P>Bye,<BR>Full of Grace

Dear Full of Grace,<P>Hi, I am late in responding but wanted to say welcome.<BR>Oh, I wanted to write more but my littlest just woke<BR>up crying. Please know that you are definatley not<BR>alone!!! Take care, fluke

Full of grace,<BR> I am not sure if I have welcomed you yet or not if not glad you found us. Did your h have a dna test done? Since you have not been threw the courts yet I was wondering. It sure is sickening how desperate some of these ow are to get attention from our h. It sounds like you guys are handleing her very well. We dont have any contact with oc so I really cant help you on this but wanted to let you know you have came to right place. with love flowerseed <p>[This message has been edited by flowerseed (edited June 14, 2001).]

Welcome, Grace!<P>Your situation sounds strangely familiar to me. My H and OW also had a several year relationship that resulted in OC. I have known 2 1/2 years now. I have accepted OC ( soon to be 3 yrs old) into my home and heart....she's delightful, most of the time, and we have a loving relationship. To my surprise, my feelings of disgust and revulsion for OW have not carried over to OC. Perhaps the fact that I, too, was born of an unmarried couple and given up for adoption makes me understand clearly that parental feelings of love do not reside in the genes (jeans?) but in the heart. Anyway....<P>My OW is truly evil and has done everything imaginable to sabotage my marriage and family. (DON'T GET ME STARTED) When H and I did not divorce when she finally arranged for me to find out (via an anonymous phone call), she was furious, and has spent the last 2 years doing everything she can think of to make live miserable for us. When she insisted on full custody, we said OK....go for it, knowing full well that full custody in no way limits our visitation rights or access to OC. When she fussed about setting up CS and visitation through the Court (even though we had been paying support and buying her diapers, etc), we did it anyway. Remember: Unless you have specific, legally-established guidelines for visitation and support, SHE can still manipulate, because who's going to stop her? In our case, until visitation was established through the Court, SHE insisted that H visit child ALONE or she would not permit him to visit. Of course, then she was able to be alone with him and play her games in trying to win him back. She's evil..not stupid.<P>Even though the Court ordered an initial phase-in vistation period which took place at her home without me, Court told her that she was not even to enter the room where H and OC were playing. Court established specific times and days for visits, and OW MUST comply or is in contempt. Now, she can no longer say, "if you don't do so-and-so, you can't see child." No wonder your OW doesn't want things set up through the Court. That will remove her "blackmail" advantage.<BR>It's unfortunate parenting must be reduced to this, but the whole situation is "unfortunate," so do whatever you must to protect your marriage and family.<P>Remember, in spite of what she may say, OW's motives have very little to do with what is "best for the child." If she were concerned about what is "best for the child," the "child" wouldn't even be here!<P>Post often. We are here for you. <P>love, anniem<BR>

Wow Grace(love the name)... lots of issues and not much time.<P>First, thank you for the compliments. I try to give something to the newbies because I got so much support by coming to these boards... and that was back before we had our own OC board. This is a lonely freaky situation to be in, one of those uncomfortable sharing with others.<P>Re: conflict avoidance, I found it is one of several affair "types" at <A HREF="http://www.affairs-help.com" TARGET=_blank>www.affairs-help.com</A> When I took their quiz, my H was clearly this type, and it helped our recovery a lot for us to realize that it's the worse way to deal with conflict. It also helped us to track what happened in our lives/marriage during the time of the affair. This was recommended in After the Affair by Janis Abram Spring. Can't recommend it enough. We also made lists for each other, lists of things we'd like from each other to repair the marriage (also in Spring's book), and I learned lots by getting H's answers to Harley's Emotional Needs and Love Busters. I can really relate to your description of needing to talk vs H needing to be private. I went to individual counseling for a while, then we went to couple's counseling for several months until the counselor basically told us we didn't need it any more. (That was a good feeling!) H hated going, but was willing to do it to repair the marriage--one of my requirements.<P>As for our situation, my H is military and we moved overseas before OC was born. H asked for this assignment to get away from XOW as a way to ended A before he learned of the pregnancy... He was hoping to end it without telling me, but then OC happened. We've only seen OC in pictures, and she's nearing 3. XOW was a friend of mine, spent lots of time at my house, babysat and housesat for each other, several years of her family with mine in my family albums, etc.--it was a double betrayal and she's never said one word to me since DDay: Sick Sick Sick. Ch-support was settled by the state. (After 1 year)We starting sending some cards and gifts to OC, but everything is done TOGETHER by joint agreement, NO (none, zip!) solo contact with XOW. XOW has sent a few updates about OC and they generally make me sick to my stomach because of the conflict I still feel toward her mother. We are open to OC visiting us if she wants when she's older, but we're not moving back there. We will tell our kids later, but they are too young now. We got info about that from counselor too.<P>Hope that answers your questions. Each situation is different with different needs, but we try here to support each other in our decisions, pains, and joys.<P>Best wishes <BR>J

Hi there Grace!<P>My H is yet another one of those military suckers. Ow worked beneath him...um...no punn intended, but pretty good huh. lol. See I am far enough along now that that is almost funny, until I really think about it. Anyways , I have known for a little over 2 yrs and oc is almost 2 (in Oct). It has been a long drawn out battle, but we arent doing too shabby right at this moment in time. We have no contact, which I believe I mentioned earlier. She did chicken out and leave. Thank the Lord. I pray yours might do the same. I pray everyones ow would do the same. Mine was not respectful of jack. Not even herself. She was nto like Ohbratti1 who was duped like the rest of us. She was a malicious, coniving, weasal and tried her best to "steal" my H. I guess her best just was not good enough. You have a tender heart and I hope ow will recognize that since the chances are slim she will drop off the face of the earth. I am sure mine will crawl out of her hole eventually. I bought stuff for baby. We were in Ga and she and oc were in Az. I sent stuff for Christmas and baby clothes. I even sent a present for her older child (who has no father) so seh wouldnt end up resenting the baby. That still makes me sick. It took so much to do and she didnt appreciate anything. She couldnt stand that I was "so nice". Oh well. For now she is gone. <P>Oh! And Surviving An Affiar is totally awesome. Gotta agree with ya there. IT is the best so far and I am an absolute bookworm..lol.<P>Love and Prayer<BR>bw