Well, I am back. OUr 3 days together went better than I expected, probably not as good as H hoped but he said as much as he could expect.We spent a lot of time together, but did talk at least one night about this mess without going into details. I was sad at times, but not unduly so, and when we talked about it I was in control, no angry outbursts, etc. WE had some nice days doing things just together, but it was very hard for me to focus on just being together. H tried very hard doing things I wanted to do- very loving, undemanding up to a point, we made love a few times, just one time I found myself getting teary eyed and crying during the process. H said he love me once during love making, first time he has done that since discovery. I pointed that out to him and he had no idea. Of course he says I still at times give him ugly looks which is hurting his love for me as well- I am going to try and work on that. But I know I still feel very hurt, very traumatized by all this, very overwhelmed by the damage he has wrecked on our life, me personally, our marriage, our family life with our kids. H said he wants our marriage to work, wants to get old with me and fat, (well, at least me- I have lost a lot of weight during all this and need to gain some weight_. I just accepted that comment, accepted his love, found by last day I really missed our kids and wanted to be next to them to reconnect as a family again.<BR>We also discussed whether to fix up our home-it needs a lot of stuff- or move. H admits throughout all A, had no idea I would need to move to heal. Never imagined it. Of course the fact OW lives only 5 miles away and slept in our home has a lot to do with me wanting to move. I resent having to move to heal, since we are quite entrenched here and it would harm my kids as well. . If she did not know my address, it would be easier. If she stays away, maybe I will feel differently. H wants to make decisions about fixing up home- I looked at him, like I do not know what to say- so much depends on what happens to us-will he really commit to me and our life together That is how I feel I need to have happen before being able to imagine a future we can count on together. for now we both tread water, seeing if we can stay together.<BR>I have my good days and bad days. ONly 4 months into this I guess it isn't so bad.But I wonder when do you start to feel like my old self? I am not my old self. What my H did to me and our relationship has really done a number on me. I never imagined he could hurt me so-and I think he wonders how he did that to me as well. He spends time with me, kids, home, has done nice things for me, but it still is not enough yet. I still feel very damaged by what he has done to our life. I feel cheated out of the security of our life together. I want that back.How do you get that back? I know I want our family life to stay intact- I watch my kids with us together and with their father alone and know they would be destroyed without him in their daily life. And then I think-how could he have been so misguided that he took such risks with them in our life? How did he do this ? He probably will never truly know the answer to this, but says he will enter therapy to find out. Did any of your H's go to therapy to process how this mess they created got started?Was it helpful? Did it help healing?<BR>Anyway, I am glad we went away, our time alone had some nice times together without going into details, and my lingerie was a big hit. The sex game was used a little, I will use it at home when the mood strikes me. <BR>For the old times out there, please tell me what you were like the first year-how your relationship was like, how did you act together, how did it move on. I just am not sure what else to do at this juncture. Thanks.<p>[This message has been edited by lsb (edited June 19, 2001).]

lsb,<BR> Glad to hear things went well. The first yr I was a total mess. You are doing much better then I did. I was into over 1 yr before I could get through one day without crying. It took close to the 2yr mark before the angry rageing fits I would throw stopped. I had to laugh about the dirty looks mine still gets them. I didnt even know I'm doing it about a month ago he finally said something.<BR> I dont know if we ever are our old selves again. I like the new me better though. I dont take no sh** anymore it seems to be something I aquired with all this. Maybe thats not the best thing for a marriage but it works with my h for some reason he needs to be kept in line. I'm afraid in our case by me allowing to much to go unchecked as far as h behavorior towards me is how we ended up in the mess we were in. <BR> We never went to any counsiling the only help I have had was here on this site. I think my depession would not have lasted so long if I would have found this site sooner. Again lsb glad things turned out o.k. on your trip.<BR> with love flowerseed

Dear lsb,<P>I haven't been on the forum as much as I would like to lately, but I am delighted at how well your trip turned out! You did great! I know you were not expecting miracles -- they simply don't happen in this situation -- it takes time and dedication to making the marriage work.<P>Flowerseed feels a lot like I do. I don't think my marriage is the same now, but I don't want the old way back again. I feel much more of an equal partner now than I used to feel. It is almost like I have survived the worst thing that can happen to my marriage and that has given me a new found strength. But it took a long time to get there.<P>The first year was absolute hell. It took between 4 to 6 months before I felt human again -- was able to really start feeling anything but anger and hurt. And then by the end of the first year I started to feel more like myself.<P>All the time I kept learning though. Learning about myself, who I was and what I really wanted for the rest of my life. Learning about my H and the feelings that he was feeling that led him to make this terrible mistake. <P>As far as I could figure out, my H never felt that he was risking his marriage because he thought I would never find out. And, actually, in the beginning he did a great job of hiding the affair, so that gave him more courage that he could get away with it. And, when I started to suspect things, the lying was just to keep himself from getting caught.<P>I have come to understand that men don't think anything like we think. They can keep these kinds of things separate from their real life with us. They are able to separate their feelings of love for their family from their physical desires and challenges. We, on the other hand, since romance and sex are intertwined in our feelings, place a much higher emphasis on the physical affair than there was for our husbands.<P>I think it is a wonderful sign that your H wants to fix up the house. Perhaps this is part of his way of emphasizing to you that he wants to repair your life together? But, finding a new home together could also be an important part of burying this whole A and starting your lives over. <P>My H and I went to counselling and it was very helpful. At first, we went separately so that we could get out how we really felt and get in touch with our feelings. My H came to a number of realizations about himself that were based on his childhood, his previous failed marriage, and how he viewed relationships and women.<P>We stopped counselling rather early, but we continued to basically do "self-counselling" and opened up a new level of communication between the two of us. You can do it, lsb. I know how hurt and afraid you are right now. But, there are no guarantees in life -- ever. <P>There was a point when I finally said to my H, "I am going to take a chance, open up my heart to you again and trust you because I know that we have both grown from the people we were and from the relationship that we had". But I also told him that I could not take him breaking my heart again. He knows now that there will be no more chances.<P>I know you are impatient for things to be normal, but there is no easy way except to take the time to rebuild. Talk about your feelings with your H. Make the adjustments and changes that you need. Decide what you need to hear your H say to you and let him know. <P>love,<BR>heavenly

Dear ISB,<BR>I am so happy your weekend went as well as it did. You won't regret having gone.<P>I sense your pain. You are still in doubt, right? Follow Heavenly's advice on letting your H know exactly what you need to feel safe again. I let my H know over and over, ISB. Then one day it just clicked! All that I was asking for was to be first in his life after God. When I truly believed that I began to change right with him.<P>It took a good 6 months of crying and arguements and me finally asking him to get out as I was seeing no progress. After that it took 6 more weeks in which I grew stronger and realized as horrible as it seemed I could go on w/o him and the continuous pain I was feeling.<P>Then one day he just came home and said he'd do anything to make us happy again. He was gonna be the best H to me the rest of our lives. He has shown that every day. My feelings count now. We do everything as a team. I no longer fear him because he's been so open and honest. It's been a pleasure.<P>It sounds as if your H is ready to do that for you. Just keep reminding him of your needs.<P>The one thing my H said ISB finally convinced me he was serious....he said if I wanted to move we could....he never would agree to that before. Now I don't want to move. I'm glad ow drives by and sees he's home w /me. She lives 1/2 mile from us.<P>I will continue prayers for your peace and healing. I feel you have come so far!<P>Bless you.<BR>love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

You all have such good advice. H and I are taking it one day at a time.We don't talk much about affair or OC- I think on purpose.But we did talk some on the days away,as I said. I do not really know what H thinks about remodeling our home. Where we live we cannot afford selling our home and staying here and buying a new one- houses are prohibitive and we could not afford to buy our present home now. With Cs payments we now make, remodeling may not be an option either. Up until finding about all this, we had plans to remodel. I do not know what H was thinking when in Jan. he was angry at me for not getting the ball rolling with remodeling. NOw I think deciding to remodel is kind of like putting the cart before the horse-is it symbolic of him healing our marriage and doing what is necessary to keep our life and family or not? If we do not remodel, and OW starts bothering us, moving for us means moving out of area-far away. Changing all in our life.A big deal. Hard to explain to our kids, family, etc.Sometimes that is what I want-a total new start, but it would be a huge price to pay for all of us, due to H's mistake. I hate that. He really never imagined I would want to move-had no sense how I would feel about OW and OC being so close, being in our home, etc. I cannot imagine how he thought doing these things to me would not effect my life here.<BR> I know my H was much like heavenly's -- he involved self in affair since he never thought I would find out, nor would it affect my kids. He pretty much carried on two separate lives. I had no knowledge of it till he told me.He was not all that different during affair as he is now. So it makes it somewhat harder to trust, feel he will do anything to keep us together.<BR>I have told him what I need to be whole with him-the issue of contact/no contact with OC. he is not ready to make a decision about this for now, so issue is on back burner. He has never asked me what it would take to keep us together, but I think he knows. He has really caused me so much pain and damaged our life that I wonder how he thinks he can keep hurting me again by forcing contact with OC issue.That is like putting salt into a wound, paining me over and over. He keeps thinking he made a mistake creating OC, how can he make another mistake by not acting like her father-two wrongs doesn't make it right. I want to shout back-how many wrongs does he think he can do to me and our children and keep a marriage, his wife and his current family? His wrongs to us are multiple-the lies behind the affair, the affair itself, the lack of regard for us and kids when he introduced kids to OW and OC, the lies to them about who those people were to him, the creation of OC, the lack of protection for all of us, the changing of rules of our life and marriage and family life after our kids were so hardly fought to create after years of fertility treatments, miscarriages, etc. I cannot take anymore wrongs to me and survive. I simply cannot.A"S it is, some days I can barely function. I hope he comes to his own realization about all this, he may have to pay consequences of this chapter in his life that may also be painful to him, as will I forever, and I never did anything wrong. I think it sucks the BS has to pay so much in pain when they did nothing wrong, even if marriage was not meeting some needs of Ws. I will always resent that, and that in itself keeps me at a distance from H. I never thought he would hurt me so, disregard me so for so long,a nd that will take a long time to heal from.

I understand how you feel<BR>i bet i never would have even known he went out with this girl if she hadnt ended up pg<BR>then i wonder what else i dont know<BR>the one person i opened myself up to and trusted fully<BR>i just told him the other night i dont know if i can open myself up to feel that pain again<BR>he says of course he is not going to hurt me but the pont is i never thought he would<P>i dreamt the other night about seeing her and the baby at kmart<BR>i have never seen the baby and h has only seen at paternity test<P>And my H says too that it was a mistake<BR>that makes me feel bad for the baby<BR>and that these ow are trying to get something out of laying a guilt trip on these guys<BR>but thats ALL it is guilt <BR>no bonding no real love and i feel sorry for those kids <BR>I just think its not best for them to have to realize where thye came from<P>its such a no win situation for everybody<P>i wish we could move away so badly <BR>sometimes i see her on the road or wahtever<BR> idream i check out parking lots before i go in stores<P>WHY am i afraid<BR>who should be ashamed here???<P>i want to believe him that it was nothing a two week drunken thing <BR>but WHAT did she think it was??? and what did he do to make her feel that it was more ?? if he did <BR>he said she knew he still loved me and they neither one wanted any relationship<BR>THEN WHYYY would she call him up a month later whgen hes back with me and expect something form him <BR>for the baby for her i dont know???<BR>but ill never know cuz i wasn't there<BR>and as much as i want to believe him, can i ever fully??