h is doing all right things-talking to me, being nice, loving, trying to be attentive, doing things I enjoy.But is isn't doing it for me. What is wrong? I guess I still mourn what I thought we had. I miss the comfort of an old love, 25 years of loving each other when you trusted love was there, committment was there, honesty was there, and I relied on that.Now all of that has been shattered for me. I don't know how to get it back. I think if not for my kids, I would be gone, it is so painful for me what h has done to shatter our life. I look at my kids, enjoy watching H with them, and that is what keeps me here-he is a good father.But as a H? i am not sure. I tell him he is not who I once knew and loved-he says, yes he is, but when someone does this to you, hides it for 3 years, tells lies for that long, falls in love with OW, well, that takes its toll on wife's love, It has mine. I want it back, just not sure how, when , where, if it will come back. I need time, I guess. But I would like to know what other H's have done to win back love, trust, committment, etc. and was it worth it? It would be hard to give up our life together.We have been together so long it would be like losing an arm or leg-but it seems like it will take forever to get to place I am happy I am still here.And it feels as if I am serving a life sentence for a crime I didn't commit.any ideas from any of you would be appreciated. I need them.

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Dear ISB,<BR>This winter was horrible for me.<BR>My H was not fully committed and I FELT he wasn't. Honest. It never felt right.<P>I cried ranted and raved. He wouldn't say a thing. But he <BR>LIED in counseling about contact and THAT made me miserable.<P>After agreeing to him seeing not-yet-born baby I overheard him say a 3rd party would never work. I blew up. Threw him out. Knew I couldn't take the pain any longer. Didn't have a choice anymore. Felt lost. Then I began to move on w/my life. I was horrible at first. I got used to him being gone and began to feel less lonly.<P>I vneeded to know and feel I was #1. I needed to actually feel loved. I needed to be reminded he wanted to grow old w/me. I needed to hear over and over hhow he made such a big mistake and really wished he could take it back...then something strange happened. I still saw my lawyer to talk of Divorce if I needed one. I put everything into place in case I needed my Attorney to start things going. I felt powerful and like I HAD A CHOICE. His demeanor changed drastically. I mean night and day.<P>I really felt the things he was saying were true. I was first. Baby didn't matter. Once that happened I felt like a united front again. I let baby issues come forth. With him truly by my side the rest was easy.<P>I never felt he was on my side.<P>He has more than proven it ISB.<P>What they had was sex and fantasy. No ugly sick days. No no-makeup days...no honey the kids are sick days... What he has with you is the real thing.<P>My H now says it's as if he can't remember being w/ow. It's truly wonderful between us again.<P>Listen to your heart ISB, it will tell you the truth.<P>Pry too....it works!!!<P>Bless you sweetie.<BR>Love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Isb, My H has done all the correct things for the last 5 yrs. That is how long I have struggled with the feelings you have now. It took me 5 yrs. to realise H really does love me. I am now convinced that I, also, love him. I'm thank-ful I found out before I let all hope go. How long has it been since D-day for you? I am sorry for your pain. ember

ISB,<P>Hi there. My H has done all the "right things" for about a year and a half now...(has been over 2 yrs since dday). He has no contact and I know he puts me first. I honestly do not even think he thinks of her, and it is getting to where i do not obsess over her anymore. Even though H was doing all these things I was still horrible to him. It was like I no longer knew ME anymore. I could not believe some of the things that came out of my mouth and then we had a huge fight and he told me that he could not take it anymore and he was tired of being belitted and yelled at everyday and he felt as if nothing he did was right and he began to believe it. He finally said to himself, no I am doing good things. He told me he had called his dad the day before and was going to ask if he could come stay there for a while and that is when it really hit me how awful I had become. he woke me up. I cried and cried adn he comforted me (once again). <P>That night I wrote him a 6 page letter telling him how I felt about him and our marriage and that he was my priority and I aplogized to him for becoming the witch I had become and then I made a list of promises. Here is a small part of what I promised: I never promised you a rose garden, but you never promised me one either. What we did promise was through good times and bad. Until death do us part. I am making a promise to you here and now. I promise to you my unconditional love. I promise you my faith and my loyalty. I promise to be nice with my words and to keep my emotional outbursts (the bad ones) in check. I promise to think about you before I speak. I promise to consider the way you feel and think as an equal to my thoughts and feelings. I promise not to degrade you or belittle you for our differences. I promise to work on me and allow you to work on you. I promise to work together on us. Our marriage is not a rat race and there is no finish line. Each day is special. Each day is a gift. We are never promised tomorrow......<P>Now I may very well have to read this every day for ten years in order to follow through, but after all we have been through I do not want me and my actions to be the final death of our love. I put the letter on the toilet (where I knew he would find it in the morning lol) I am assuming he did. He never mentioned it and I did not ask him about it, but he was the sweetest man in the world the next day and we have been in love all over again since. IT has been wonderful and you know what the best thing is? I have peace. <P>I just wanted to share that with you to let you know these are things in you. You can not change the way he thinks or acts..only he can do that. You can only work on you.<P>Love and Lots of Prayers<P>bw

ember, it has only been 4 months since I found out this whole horror. I still sit around at times saying " I can't believe H made such a big mistake and how he did this to us." I am still somewhat in a state of shock with this all. This kind of thing just doesn't happen to people I know. I know noone this has happened to, other than people on web site. I know H didn't want child although he did nothing to prevent it when he trusted woman to use rhythm method and believed she knew what she was doing. And he didn't know she wouldn't consider abortion should pregnancy occur till it happened. It hurts me he had a child with someone else other than me, after all the years we have been together. It hurts me he saw another woman's body change shape during her pregnancy- I hate that. I think I always will. He says the best thing we ever did together was have our kids together, but even that statement is tarnished for me because now what we did together he shared with another. I don't know if I will ever feel towards him like I once did. Can you live with someone like this and wait and see if feelings return? Ember, you say it took 5 years for you. I guess it will take a while. HOw long for you since you found out about A and OC? Do you have any contact? HOw old is child? How far away do they live?do your memories of this mess go away? Do you feel happy with your own family life? I just hope this improves. I think I am past the shock of all this and realizes this is my life now, and I am not sure I want it. I stay because giving all we have built up together is even more devastating to think of, but it is so hard being here some days, wondering when or if I will truly love H again. And am I doomed to just kind of living with him, not really having a truly committed marital life with him? When does it get better? How does WS make it right so love returns? I need answers.<P>[This message has been edited by lsb (edited June 19, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by lsb (edited June 20, 2001).]

Sweet ISB I didn't realize H was there for birth. That totally sucks...I would have been livid!!! <P>I do not remember reading this.<P>Too bad.<P>I feel it would take me much longer to recover. I still feel that you will.<P>I sense H has come to realize he loves his family, right?<P>Show him back how you love him. Show him the fabulous woman you are. And you are, ISB.<P>Let yourself go in his presence. Be yourself. If he can't handle it he'll let you know. I think he'll be tender and wonderful w/you.<P>His fog is lifting ISB. Hang in there. YOU DESERVE A GOOD LIFE. He should do that for you!!!!<P>Prayers.....<BR>Love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Isb,<BR> I did not want to even look at hubby for a long time after discovery. he did all he could to let me know I was the one he wanted. my hubby was like yours, he was adimit about having contact with the oc, I was even more set that there was NEVER going to be any or me and my kids were out the door. It took over a year for me to realize that he was with me because he loved me and wanted me. once I trusted our love again everything changed. i no longer fear the ow, they had a long term affair also, I feared losing my hubby to the "bad" feelings i had. we did a lot of counceling, A LOT of talking. We made date nights and basically he "pursued " me all over agin like we were dating because to me our"past" was tainted. i now trust our love and our marriage and i want to make him happy, for over a year all i wanted to do was to cause him 1/10 of the pain he had caused me and our kids. I now am able to accept Oc and we are going after custody rights. it takes time and A LOT of effort but someday you will get back to love.

Isb,<P>It does get better. I too did not want to look, talk or be around H. At first he was afraid to touch me, said that I was looking at him different.<P>H was trying to do the right things, but it was if I wanted to accept what he was trying to do. With the help from him and he was not pushing me, he gave me time to think and decide what I wanted to do, wether it was right or wrong. After praying and fasting, I relize that I still loved him---that's what hurts the most. <BR>I put my H before GOD and God showed me that I was not to do that. <P>H touches me more, kiss more and be around me more. H is being more open-minded, and showing me that I am who he wants and I am who he needs.<P>I still have flashbacks - dday 12/99 for 1st oc 9/00 for 2nd oc, same ow-- but I and my H understand that there will be thoses days.<P>Love yourself first, H second.<P>G&P (formerly IN THE SOUTH)

A friend gave me a wise saying... if someone keeps saying something it's because they don't feel heard. <P>Maybe it's still too soon for you, or maybe you don't feel heard. Maybe you need to vent more, to your H or to a counselor (solo, not couple's counseling) or a trusted friend. What do you need to hear your H say? Does he know that? How have you handled other crisis in your life?

<BR>Dear Isb, <BR>I'm sorry for how you are feeling, but boy can I relate! I haven't been married as long as you, (six years)but I feel like I don't know who is is anymore, and that's SAD...he's not who I thought he was, loyal, committed, strong, etc.<P>Gem,<BR>I think I am where you were. I don't feel my H is fully committed now. I can't really explain it, but something just doesn't FEEL right. Does that count for anything??<BR>H was remorseful for the first couple of weeks after d-day, but now he is defensive and distant. He just gazes out the window when I'm talking about us (calmly, I swear) and when I asked him to repeat what I've said, he can't. I guess I'm just not hearing what I need to hear, maybe I need to ask more....I don't know, things just don't "feel" right.<P>Isb, sounds like you're still greiving, and that's way okay, hang in there, we love you!

Jenny, I think I need more time and more talks with H. WE have avoided talking about all this a lot recently, because I think it was very painful for both of us. H never initiates the talks either, I have to be the one to do it. Plus we have been busy with jobs, kids stuff,e tc.There is never enough time. My issues of what I need remain-more discussions with H of how he really gets the pain he caused.When I tell him how I hurt, he apologizes and holds me, but that isnt always helpful either.I don't know what I expect of him-I guess I want him to say-- I will do anything to keep marriage together, I will move mountains if that is what will take to save us and save family. That is what I want. I want his committment to do anything to save us. I don't know if he wants to do that. I know he loves his family -- he loves his life with us-he loves his kids--I think he loves me-he says he wants to grow old with me, wants me back to way I was when he first fell in love with me. I told him he didn't have to lose me, meaning had he not done this I wouldn't have gone away, emotionally so to speak, but I don't know if he really gets what he has to do to heal us. He admits he can't empathize with my pain, which disturbs me. He says since it didn't happen to him, he doesn't know how it would feel had I done this to him. It bother me he is so closed off he cannot put himself in my shoes.I want him to feel my pain so he can really see what he needs to do to help me heal from it. I think the only pain he feels is when he loses-Ie. I tell him I will separate if we do not heal,e tc. Then he feels sad.But he cannot feel sad for me. How can one not? ANyway, I need more specific apologies from him-what I get are, I am sorry I hurt you, our family, etc. I wish I never did this. I wish I could take these years away,e tc. But it doesn't get specific enough for me. Oh, I just think time and work together will help . Our real anniversary is next week and I hardly feel like celebrating. I am getting cards in mail for anniversary and it hurts. What are we celebrating anyway? It doesn't feel much like a celebration to me-just a destruction of years and years together of a life I thought we had, now I find it was all a lie.<p>[This message has been edited by lsb (edited June 20, 2001).]

lsb,<P>Read the Harley's stuff on love banks. Give your husband print outs of the material. Tell him how he can fill yours and ask how you can fill his. Go with the actions, the emotions will follow. Love really isn't as much an emotion as it is a conscious will to act lovingly even when you don't feel that love.<P>Do you think this is harder than it has to be because you haven't told anyone about this, not even your closest friend? Telling someone eases the pain, it really does. Let people who love you and live in your physical world (as opposed to us virtual friends) help you. Reach out, make connections. It is also not your job to protect his reputation. Scr*w what other people think. This is your marriage; you manage it as you see fit. Stay in it, leave it, do whatever is right for you, but don't let what unimportant people in your life think about your decisions affect you. I told my husband that I would choose to whom I would speak to about his A. He did not have a right to ask me to protect his privacy; he surrendered those rights when he had an A. Now, I think he would have had a valid complaint if I had sent out those birth announcements to everyone on our Christmas card list, but I chose carefully just those people I needed to get through this.<P>You keep saying you feel ashamed about this A. Please, please realize that you don't need to be ashamed. Shame is an emotion you feel when *you* did something wrong or you think yourself to be lacking in some way. I felt it too in the beginning. I felt I must have been inadequate for him to go looking somewhere else. It battered my self-esteem, but I fought back. It passes if you get out your psychic broom and sweep it out of your mind. Find a way to stop your racing thoughts. You are not at fault here; you did not have the A, he did. <P>Are you in private counseling?<P>Now I am treading on thin ice, but if you really are here looking for advice, I will try although this might be hard. Please also look deep inside and see if your true intent here is to build up your marriage or to punish him. I will tell you that if you want to keep this marriage, you *cannot* punish him for what he has done. No one can stay long in a marriage if they are always under the whip. He has to see light at the end of the tunnel. He has to be convinced that your forgiveness and love are things he can earn back or he won't be willing to try. Well, he might for awhile, but he will give up soon. Having him earn back your trust is different from punishing. Expecting him to grovel and beg are also not realistic expectations. <P>The God's honest truth is that he can't understand your pain. This hasn't happened to him. Remember, he just got his ego stroked. Two women love him and want him. And she has the advantage to be honest, because they have never had to share real life and the raising of children and the paying of mortgages, and broke down washing machines and all the stuff of real life. They existed in a fantasy world and for the most part that felt like a good place to be. Pretty sucky, but I think that it is the truth. However, you cannot understand what pain and maybe self-loathing he may be going through because you have not been in his shoes. The best the two of you can do is listen to each other and try to understand. I know I am in the minority here, but I believe that there are 3 very hurt people in all EMRs--the WS, the BS and the OW. At least admit that in your marriage, there are two very hurt people. If your marriage is going to work out you are probably going to have to acknowledge that he is also hurt. Yes, it is his fault he is hurt, but he also needs your help getting through this probably as much as you need his. He sounds like a good, decent man who has made one gigantic mistake.<P>I truly hope things begin to get better for you. You deserve it.<P>MJ

Isb, I will post my story soon. mj, it took me 5 yrs. too realize that I can't change the past, but must live today and tomorrow. Some people take longer than others. Some grieve the rest of their life. I finally decided to quit grieving, and start living. It's hard to trust again. ember