my wife divorced me 38 days ago. her mother has a huge influence over her. she sends me so many mixed signals. she divorced me 20 days before our 2 year anniversary. she went to tampa anyway on the gift i bought for the occassion on our anniversary weekend. while there i grabbed her hand to hold it. she said that's what couples do so i let go. one hour later she took my arm and put around her neck. later that night she grabbed my hand and held it. we also made love that night(she initiated) and the next night (i initiated). then she told me she felt guilty because we weren't married anymore. she also told me that she just wanted to be friends and that she wanted to date other people. she divorced me partly because i wasn't a member of her church. she said she did not tell her family she went to tampa with me and that she never would. when we got back home we worked out together. i brought us up and she flipped out and said that i was pressuring her.(???) a few days later i told her i decided to get baptised in her church and asked if she would come. i thought that she would at least a little happy. she wasn't. she called me after i left and told me that she needed to be completely honest if i was going to join her church. she said i don't love you and i don't want to ever get back together. i went back and we made love again the next morning. after which she said she felt guilty because she was trying to get right with God. i told her i didn't want to see her again. she sounded astonished. i did not speak to her for 5 whole days. she called me to tell me to pick up my mail and that we had an offer on our house. she also chit-chatted with me. on sunday i offered to put my half of the house note in the mailbox. she said "no". come inside and hang out. she was wearing her wedding band on the right hand. i told her it was on the wrong hand. she said "why would i wear it on my left hand? you're not wearing yours." to her surprise i pulled my left hand out of my pocket and showed her that i was. i flirted with her (because i still very much love her and she knows this; she was usually the one initiating the flirting)and she flirted back. she asked if she could call me. my brother called her and told her she needed to tell me one way or the other. she was upset and said she didn't want to see me anymore and that we had no future. she said she was only trying to be my friend by flirting with me and inviting me in and the ring comment. what is her deal? does she still love me? is she leading me on? is she afraid she won't find anyone else? PLEASE HELP!!!!

Some questions for you. Sorry 'cus they may be painful but they're necessary. Lots of people on this board may be able to help but they'll need to know:

(1) what were the grounds of the divorce?
(2) what denomination is her church?
(3) did she join this church before or after she married you?
(4) what are your own religious beliefs?

I do not believe that she doesn't love you. Women do not usually have repeated sex with someone they don't have any feelings for.

(1) what were the grounds of the divorce?
she said she prayed to God and he told her to divorce me. she said she was tired of trying. she said we are just different and that we've grown apart. she said she didn't love me anymore. she has given me a ton of reasons.

(2) what denomination is her church?
she is mormon.

(3) did she join this church before or after she married you?
she has been a member of this church her whole life. she married me knowing that i was not a member. i did tell her that i would look into it.

(4) what are your own religious beliefs?
i believe there is only one God and he loves us based on the contents of our hearts not our religion.

thanks a ton for your reply. any advice would be appreciated. i am consulting with jennifer (dr. harley's daughter). she says i am making good progress.

Hi again. I'm a bit rusty on Mormons though I've known a few. Do you suspect that there may have been disapproval from her church of her being married to a non-Mormon?

Since she married you in the first place this cannot be the only issue but may be a factor. However they do believe that only they are true Christians and that all other churches are wrong.

The teaching of her church is that she will be saved and you will end up in hell. This can be a bit of a downer in a relationship.

Taking advice from Jennifer is much better than from any of us here gifted amateurs.

i just felt really special when she married me knowing that i wasn't a member. as far as i know, only her mom disapproved.

thanks for replying.

Hi Ves,

I now think I should have offered more help. I was a bit intimidated because you're also talking to Jennifer who is a professional. But you've asked so here's my answer.

(1) The reasons for the Dv. "Message from God" - No Way. It's easy to get ideas about God's will for you based on your feelings at the time. For example to interpret minor events as "signs". Ignore this one.

"We're different" - well of course you are - for a start you're a man and she's a woman. Now there's a difference! Men and women have different needs. The Harley's have found in the responses to the EN Questionnaire that even the most happily married couples will list very different needs.

"Grew apart" - probably true but the question is: Can you grow back together again? The weekend in Tampa seems to suggest yes.

(2) There's a debate among Christians about the ethics of sex before marriage. You're W is concerned about the ethics of sex AFTER marriage, which is a whole new area of debate.

(3) Here's a thought - getting married is both a legal and a spiritual act. If you went through the marriage ceremony but due to some bureaucratic mix up there wasn't an official record would you feel any less married? (a) in your own view and (b) in the sight of God?

Divorce is only a legal act - there isn't a church service for the solemnisation of divorce (a UK comedy show did a spoof one a few years back, the minister said "Who taketh this woman from this man?" and the OM stepped forward to give a very unconvincing justification for the A that had broken up the M).

Your W obviously doesn't have anyone else so might she be amenable to the argument that you married for life and ought to give it another try?

How much contact do you have with your W now?

I may have a suggestion for a letter you could write but at present it involves too much speculation on my part so I need some more from you before I suggest it.

thank you!!

my wife and i in my mind are still very much married and i told her that. actually what i said was, "you'll always be my wife." i think in God's eyes we are still married as well, "What therefore God hath joined together, let no MAN put asunder." (Matthew 19:6). as far as her eyes go, i think she thinks we are not truly married b/c we were never married in a temple (as is necessary in her church (mormon)). at the same time she married me knowing i was not a member.

ever since i went to atlanta without her for work, we haved talked everyday (10 straight). i have spent time with her for about 7 of those days. if she gets cancelled at work, we're supposed to do something tonight and go hit some golf balls at the range on sat. i have to go to dallas and then austin for the next two weeks and i leave sunday after church. she invited me to go on a church bike ride to look at christmas lights in downtown houston on the 14th of december.

i really think that her mom is the biggest road block to our happiness. her dad died of cancer 3 years ago and her mom had nothing better to do than to call michelle everyday (i know that sounds bad, i'm just a little resentful of her mom). i know in my heart that if we get back together and move away from her mom we'll be
a-okay.

as far as a letter goes, i'm open for anything that might get back the one i truly love and yearn to spend the rest of my life with. i started writing one on the plane to atlanta.

forgive me if i take a while to respond. i am on the disc. forum m-f 8:30-5 at work in between doing work.

thanks a ton for your help.

If you’ve been having that much contact it’s clear that the relationship is back on. Even while you’re away you can keep in touch by phone and email. And plan an intimate reunion dinner for when you get back!?

My letter won’t work. It was going to say that you consider yourself still married in the sight of God. If she felt the same way (or could accept this idea which she may not have thought of) you’d have a way forward. But from what you’ve said I don’t think this will be her view. As you say she may even think that you weren’t properly married in the first place. Ouch.

If you were to remarry would you be willing for that to be in a Mormon Temple and would the rules of their church allow that? If you don’t know the answer to the question about their rules I suggest you don’t ask Michelle – the information must be out there somewhere. Probably too soon to raise the issue of remarriage even though I think that’s your personal agenda.

The whole Mormon thing is very difficult. It’s an obstacle and you absolutely don’t want to put the focus on it. The church bike ride is tricky. From your W’s point of view drawing you into the Mormon Church is the ideal solution – you become a Mormon then you get remarried in the Temple and everyone’s happy. Is that where she’s headed?

Problem is that if your only reason to join their church is to get back with your W the whole relationship is founded on a lie. She’ll sense your insincerity and so will others and you’ll be troubled by having to pretend to agree with doctrines you don’t agree with. Won’t work.

If you’re NOT willing to become a Mormon and you ARE going to be together then you’re going to have to find a space where you can respect each other’s beliefs. Don’t allow her to think that you might be heading towards joining her Church unless that is a real possibility. Once you hold out that prospect there is a danger that she’ll set her heart on it and it’ll become a “deal breaker”.

i think she really wants me to join, but she has always said i don't want you to join it for me. do it for yourself.

yes, the church is something that i would join and probably would have joined by now if she had not pressured me to (kind of funny since she said she did not want me to do it for her).

of course i my objective is to remarry her. i love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi ves,

Christ's message is one of unconditional love. How sad that it so often becomes a source of division.

As I understand it she always wanted you to join but needs assurance that you were really converted and not just to please her. It's a good point. If she doubts the sincerity of your conversion it'll be an barrier (possibly never spoken but still there) for your whole life.

You say you were actually prepared to convert but for yourself and not because of pressure. Makes sense. But...

In my first response (by the way where's everyone else?) I asked you about your own religious beliefs. You said that you believed in one God but that He looks into people's hearts and not at their beliefs or membership of a particular church. This a fair way even from mainstream Christianity. A Christian might agree about what's in the heart but would also talk about faith in Christ. It's a thousand miles from the Mormons who to be blunt are a pretty narrow sect out on the fringe. They have the Book of Mormon which is a nineteenth century addition that they put almost on a par with the Bible.

Before you tell me you're prepared to join and especially before you say that to your W you need to look at their beliefs in a serious way.

I suggest you get some materials off the web about the Mormons, both from them and from critics. When you've done some reading tell your W that you've been looking into it. DO NOT ask her for information - at least not in the first instance - she'll see that as a ploy to get back with her which is exactly the concern she raised before.

This is a bump for ves to get this thread back to the top. In this one he tells his story.