LSB,<P>First and foremost I do not want in any way to deny your pain nor to change the fact that you will grieve on your own schedule, but you do seem to be a bit stuck and I thought that I might try making a suggestion.<P>I know that I am probably the PollyAnna of the group--that I move through troubles quickly enough that it can even look like denial until you get to know me better. Even my counselor was concerned about it in the beginning, that I move toward forgiveness and healing too quickly. She thought I was burying things, but we have since concluded that I just move quickly through things because I have learned good techiques, am good at figuring out what I am responsible for and what is other people's responsibilites and I have good self-soothing skills.<P>Have you ever tried cognitive therapy? IMO, it is a great field of psychology that is about 30 years old. It is the only psychotherapy that has clinically proven results and it now almost universally required by all insurance plans that it is a major component of any counseling as it has been shown to be so effective. Its basic tenant is that it is not what happens to us in our lives, but what we think of those events and the self-talk that goes on inside our heads about those events. I know it sounds just like positive thinking, and therefore some emotional sop of people who tend to do things like join encounter groups. But I can attest that it works if you work at the program daily for a few weeks. It is also one of the few psychotherapies that really can be done on your own, at home, at no real cost except a little paperback book. There is a classic book on this by Dr. David Burns called "Feeling Good." There is also a cognitive therapy book about surviving and affair (it isn't Dr. Harley's). I will get you the title in a day or so if you would like.<P>OK, an example, a friend says that she is going to call you to go out to lunch next week and she doesn't call. So, in your head you start going "I wonder if I did something to make her angry? Well, what about the time she did A, B, and C. She's not so perfect. That jerk." or "What is wrong with me? Why do my friends always do this to me?" When in truth the real story is probably just much more simple than that--she got sick, got busy or just simply forgot as we all do sometime.<P>OK, I know that that is trite compared to the pain of a damaged marriage and a child born of an affair--being raped into stepmotherhood. Some events in life are so large, that there is inherent pain in them. Certainly an affair is one of those, but you can make it better or worse by the way you allow your thoughts to go. <P>I have noticed that you almost always say "what he did [emphasis]to me and to our kids[/emphasis]" You certainly have every right in the world to be angry at your H. What he did was, well, many, many adjectives come to mind--stupid, selfish, etc. However, he probably didn't do this "to you." I am sure that it had much more to do with him and some emotional or mental problems that he was having. If he deliberately did this "to you" as in "boy, that rotten lsb isn't conversing with me as much as I would like, I'll fix her as*; I'll meet some bimbo, have an affair and get her knocked up, just to show lsb that she can't treat me that way." If this was deliberate, intentional infliction of pain, that it was done "to you." If he is the kind of man to do something this low to intentionally inflict this harm, then he is not fit to be married to. Most likely, this had very little to do with you. He almost certainly thought he could get away with this and what you didn't know wouldn't hurt you. If it came about for other reasons, mostly his own, it was something very bad that he did, but he did it mostly for reasons of his own that he may or may not even understand very well himself right now. <P>I got fat, very, very fat and it was a love buster for my husband. I didn't get fat to hurt or punish him. I got fat for reasons of my own--chronic pain and eating to comfort myself. Now, my weight gain and loss of the standards of beauty (I still think I have a beautiful face that is almost always full of smiles and love even though it is rounder than it used to be. So does my H and he tells me so, that my face shows my kind heart.) He had an affair and a child. It may or may not have been (in part) because I got fat and he was unhappy about that or it may be because he felt pretty crummy about himself for some reason, or has a mental illness, or simply decided to abandon his morals and get some of what the rest of the world seemed to be getting and what our society says is so good for you--cheap sex on the side. "Go ahead, have an affair--it's fun and a personal growth experience. Hell, everyone else is having one. Don't miss out; don't be the only one on your block not cheating on your wife. What are you some kind of square." It goes very well with our idea of disposalbe marriage.<P>I didn't take me very long after Dday to realize that his A said much more about him and his self-esteem and mental health than it says about me. I tell him that he had a hole in his self-esteem big enought to drive another woman through.<P>I hate this affair, but I can let it embitter me or I can learn from it. If I am going to stay married to this man, I need to learn to move on and IMO, the faster, the better. I don't want to stay in this crummy place for any longer than I have to get these issues under control. I want to forgive, fix and move forward; it is in my own best interest as well as his. I have some issues I can work on, some ways I can improve my H's happiness in this marriage. I understand better our weaknesses and our strengths.<P>You also speak about not being able to "stand this, abide this or live with this." Studies have shown when we use this kind of language, either out loud or in our heads we really get that fight or flight system going. We begin pouring adrenalin into our systems, our immune systems shut down, etc., etc. If you could change some of your wording to "If my H insists on visitation with OC, I am going to be faced with some very hard choices, some that I don't want to have to make." you might begin to be able to self-soothe a bit and deescalate the situation a little.<P>Honestly, I am not trying to pick on you, but I see you continually caught up in the same whirlpool going around in circles and you sound as upset as when you first came here. Maybe it is because your H is still not participating in recovery yet, but you can work on yourself, your reactions and automatic thoughts, work on fixing your marriage (yes, sometimes one person can change a marriage) and still be at the same time making backup plans for what you will do if things don't work out. <P>Honestly, I hope and pray for your recovery and for a healed and whole marriage. You deserve it, but you will be OK even if that isn't what you wind up with.<P>Mrs. Job<p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Job (edited June 15, 2001).]

Mrs. Job...WOW...I think you were also talking to me. I haven't been able to post b/c i am so stuck...(and busy with moving). But I think it is more b/c I seem to be struggling with the same issues of feeling that I won't get past this, or no longer have the energy. <BR>Anyway, when I was sick with an eating disorder years ago and hospitalized I do recall the type of therapy you are speaking of, and it helped me to get out of my depression and think better about myself since my self eseem was non-existant and has since returned to that dark place.<BR>I would be interested in the name of the book regarding the surviving the affair. I do have Dr. Harleys, but have aquired a libary of books and am curious if I already have the one you have mentioned. I would like to read it next(Right now I'm reading Torn Asunder, along with packing, moving into temporary housing and taking care of three kids.)Just so maybe I can get a handle back on that type of thinking.<BR>Thanks...<BR>NGU...sorry for butting in on your post lsb!

lsb, I have wanted to say much of what Mrs. Job said to you above, but was not comfortable with it because I am NOT in the situation you are in (although my husband did have a long term affair and did leave me for another woman - they are now living together, hopefully very unhappily, in Florida).<P>I hope that you see that we only want you to feel BETTER - and we see that you are not allowing yourself to feel better. You are allowing this OW to have so much power over you - you are allowing your husband to have so much power over you. Take the power back for yourself and use the tools that are available here and in the counseling field (Solution Oriented Brief Therapy is one of the types of cognitive therapy that is very effective for serious marital problems, and is the type of therapy advocated by Michelle Weiner-Davis, author of 'Divorce Busting').<P>We care about you, lsb, and want to see you move forward into the light.<BR><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Dear lsb,<P>Like Mrs. Job and the others, I have also been very worried about you and how focused you are on the anger that we all go through. No one can tell another when they need to move on -- that is something that you must feel for yourself.<P>What we can do is help you to understand that your H made a terrible mistake and there have been implications that affected you. But you can decide how you want to deal with those implications. They don't have to destroy your life.<P>You have already started on the road to recovery. Your H is sorry and he is doing everything he can to work things out. We want to help you take your life back. I hope you will think about some of the wonderful suggestions that Mrs. Job gave you. You were definitely victimized, but you don't have to be a victim forever. <P>There are so many of us standing by and willing to help you. I am praying for you.<P>love,<BR>heavenly