Hi;<P>We started counselling a couple of weeks ago, this lady was really highly recommended to us. We know (sadly) of at least three couples that have used her, and swear she is the best. <P>My questions are;<P>1) I told her about the site, she says she is aware and has some ideological differences with the concepts here, and will not be supporting the Plan a / Plan b concept. Anyone else had a counsellor with this take?<P>2) She laid down some "rules", which I understand is normal, but they include the following;<BR>a) There will be no fingers pointed or attacks launched to anyone outside this room. We are here to deal with your marriage, you are the two principals involved. <BR>b) We are here to deal with today's pain, and the future's promise. There are underlying issues that may run from the past to the future, let's deal with the issues and not get sidetracked by small events.<BR>c) I care for you both as individuals and as a couple, I will not pick sides. I am not a judge, I am a facilitator - I will assist you to clarify the issues and deal with them, but this is your process.<BR>d) Our motto in this room is "do no harm". If we treat the other kindly, respectfully and lovingly, we can demand that the other treat us in this manner.<P><BR>This sounds nice, but it means that I am not allowed to vent, that the OW is off limits except in how we are going to deal with the paternity suit, and she is not interested in going thru the details..and I am going crazy wanting to know every single detail - what he wore, what they did...<P>I challenged her on this, and she said she understands, but tells me that a) I will only drive myself crazy with the knowledge and b) venting really just increases the amount of time and energy spent on the negative and decreases the time and energy we can spend putting our marriage and lives back together. <P>Part of me sees where this makes sense, but I do have a part of me that just feels outraged and victimized. She told me privately that one day, the rage will go away, so not to jeopardize our future by making choices based on that rage. <P>Any thoughts, comments? <P>A friend of mine is a psychologist, and she says that what Dr. L is trying to do is create a safe haven in the marriage, so that it becomes the source of refuge - as an affair is usually just the seeking of a place to feel good again. That if my husband knows he can tell me anything without judgement, he will tell me everything, rather than seeking to tell OW!!<P>I just want to have a happy life again!!<P><BR> <P> <P>

I actually think your counselor is correct with all of her "rules". The counselor my husband and I are seeing also sets limits etc. However I see a different counselor on my own where I can vent etc. The urge to revisit every detail is going to go away with time but it sounds like your pain is too fresh. Ask her if you can see her separatly also and also look into going onto an antidepressant. I know some people have mixed feelings about them but they really helped me recover my sense of self. Keep us posted.<BR> Kris

messenger,<P>I agree with QMom except one thing: Get a different counselor for yourself individually, but make sure that the values of your individual counselor are pro-marriage and not in direct conflict with your joint counselor.<P>My reasoning for this is because if you see the joint counselor separately, you may make your husband uncomfortable with her - even though she says she won't take sides, he may be afraid that she will do so because she will see more of "your side" of things.<P>Also, if you are interested, ask your joint counselor what "style" she considers hers closest to of some of the "big names" (like Harley, Gray, Weiner-Davis, Dobson, Chapman, Pittman, McGraw, etc.) so you have an idea of what direction she will be taking you in.<P>Sounds like a no-nonsense, solve the issues of the here and now, solution oriented type of approach. I'm guessing Weiner-Davis Divorce Busting style from the sound of it, something called Solution Oriented Brief Therapy.<P>Congratulations on finding a therapist who is truly pro-marriage.<BR><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Messenger,<P>Sorry to that another new person has joined our group, but if you have to be going through this, I am glad that you found this board.<P>The obsessive need to know every detail will go away. It did for me and I think that it has a least dimished for each of us on this board. Let yourself do some of it, but also learn ways to distract your thoughts and to soothe yourself also. It isn't good for you to stay in that hyper-aroused state all the time. It will take a toal on your mental and pyhsical health. Be sure to try and create some pleasant moments between you and your H. Sometimes if you act happily married, the feelings will follow the actions. In fact, I think that the fewer "dirty details" that you know about the affair, the better off you will be. Be careful of painting pictures in your head that are so detailed and graphic that you will have trouble getting rid of them. <P>One thing I think that you do need to know is that your H needs to come clean with all of his methods of deceiving you so that you can be aware of them and he can't use them again.<P>Sounds like you have a pretty good marriage counselor there. So many of them see their role in easing a couple through divorce. None of this means that you can't be plan A-ing your little heart out. <P>A counselor of your own sounds like a great thing. You don't want to bring too much of the anger into your marriage. Yes, express it; your H needs to know how hurt you are, but if he has to hear it everyday, he may get overwhelmed and give up. He has to know that a whole marriage is a possibility in the future.<P>Just my opinion. Take what works for you and ignore the rest.<P>All the best, <BR>MJ

messenger,<P>how do YOU and YOUR H feel about her rules?? Because that's who she needs to help, and if you or he feels undermined, how can it work?? <P>It doesn't sound to me like a bad way to address your marriage issues, but I would like to know if you will be addressing things like... how did A happen? Not physically, but what pressures within and outside your M made H feel 'okay' to engage in A (so that you can--together--avoid a repeat!)? The 'know every detail' urge I agree DOES diminish with time (see book below--some is legit. too). As your relationship improves, the past mistakes grow less and less important, the hopes, goals, and dreams you share together more real.<P>I like the question what style is counselor coming from? and WHERE are you allowed to vent and to receive sympathy?? Are you even "allowed" in this counseling to express how hurt you are and how you need H's remorse and actions from him that rebuild trust?? I highly recommend the rebuilding process described in book After the Affair by Janis Abram Spring. I do NOT think an affair should just be ignored!!! I hope that's not what your counselor means.