I don't mean to be negative, but considering the situation most of us are in, I think it is very important to know as much as possible about laws which regard oc. We spoke to lawyer about oc and cs. I also asked about what would happen if something were to happen to my h and there were no will. I can't remember who said to ask that. In the state of Texas, if someone passes away without a will, the estate/property left behind is divided evenly among the children-including the oc. In otherwords, the all assets would be divided between our son and ow's daughter-i.e. the other woman would end up with half of our assets and I would be left in the lurch. Needless to say, we're working on a general will in which we leave each other the assets, or if we both pass, we leave it to someone else. Anyway, some of you may see this post as negative, but I think we should try to have as many cards in our hands as possible. Hopefully some of you will find this post helpful.<P>ivc

IVC,<P>I don't see this post as negative. It is something that H and I know that we need to take care of but haven't gotten done yet. <P>I want him to buy a life insurance policy with OC as beneficiary and for OW to sign off that that is what OC gets in case of my H's death. It should be large enough to cover what he would have paid in child support over the years. I want what he and I have worked for to be protected from OW. I don't think that there is anything wrong with that, in fact my minister was the one who suggested it.<P>MJ

H and I had new wills done after I found out about oc. They specifically state that no inheritance is left to oc.<P>Jtigger

In some states, you can write off children, but not spouses. In other states you can't write off children, but you can write off spouses. Every state is so different. My state, you can write in your will "no money to children", but can't write it for a spouse. <P>However, one thing I would check to see if it's possible is see if you can write up the will to state any monies going to OC is to be placed in a trust fund with you (or some other family member) as executor of that trust fund, payable ONLY to OC in full at the legal age (usually 18). Just another idea. <P>Take care,<BR>CoR

When I found out, H got divorce papers a few days later. In order for me to cancel the divorce, H put house, stocks, bonds, etc., all in my name. It has been 5&1/2 yrs., now, not only am I secure finanialy, I know my H truly loves, and trusts me to keep it such. No OC can touch what is mine. ember

IVC,<P>Being that we are in Tx, thanks for the info. I do not believe we have an updated will. But I think both the trust fund idea and the life insurance are good plans. Keep us informed...<BR>Love<BR>bw

Our wills mention our children, "the children of the marriage" specifically as our heirs. His will mentions the OC and excludes her specifically. The lawyer did not mention/suggestion about a life insurance policy.<BR>We will address that but will not do it unless lawyer recommends it. Of course everything goes to me first if he predeceases me, I am his heir first then the children if we die together. Then it goes to our kids as I mentioned.<BR> TGirl

I like ember and texasgirls ideas. We see our lawyer soon. We are going to do what it takes so our home goes to our son only. H has said that.<BR>Interesting subject.....one we hadn't given thought to as of yet.<P>Love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

I am sure that the laws in each state are different, but in MA (where we live) OW can sue on behalf of OC and get 1/4 of everything we own (that % would go down if we have children born or adopted of this marriage). 1/2 of what we own belongs to my H. He can leave half of that to me, but must provide for the OC while she is still a minor. His estate is liable for her support even after he is dead. (I have a friend whose step-mom is still paying the first wife the court ordered alimony even though the husband has been dead for years.) Obligations to a minor child can extend past death. When OC is 18 we can disinherit her if we chose. So for us, that is the reason for the life insurance policy, so that OC is taken care of and OW can't get 1/4 of everything that we have worked for.<P>Each and every one of us needs to have a will and all financial documents in order. We each need to see an attorney who specializes in family law and one who is knowledgeable about estate planning as well. We are in unusual circumstances. (Yes, I used to work for an attorney as a paralegal, but I promise I don't get kickbacks. )<P>Also, be certain to have the attorney look over your documents every year or two. Your state legislature could change the laws on you and your documents could take 2nd place to new laws enacted. <P>I love CoR's idea of a trust for the minor OC. I hadn't thought about that one.<P>MJ

I cannot support Mrs. Job's last statement enough. Nothing that you can read replaces the advice of a family law specialist. Every state is different and the laws change constantly.<P>It is not enough to have an agreement signed between the OW and your H. Some states guarantee the rights of children regardless of what agreements are made between the adult parties. <P>Even though it may be an extra expense at the moment, it is most important that you take the time and money to have a will drawn up with proper legal advice. in the end, it will save a lot of heartache.<P>Thanks, IVC, for bringing this subject up. It may be unpleasant to discuss, but it is essential for the well-being of our families.<P>love,<BR>heavenly

Oh My GOD! Please tell me if I am way off base here. . .<BR> Two adult people screw up (WS and OW), and a child is created out of that. While I certainly agree that OW has no rights to anything, all this talk about making sure that the OC gets nothing from his biological PARENT makes me quite ill. <BR> I applaud those of you who are concerned about the child, are working on insurance policies, etc. I can understand that it must be an extremely difficult situation, to try to sort out.<BR> For those of you concerned only that the OC gets nothing, well--you make me ashamed to be part of the same species as you.<BR> OC? OC? Doesn't a child deserve more than a couple of initials? While not planned, it is a CHILD who deserves everyone's best intentions. "Write off" the child, as you like--just keep in mind that in the end, you may be "written off" as well. . .

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Holding Her Hand:<BR><B>Oh My GOD! Please tell me if I am way off base here. . .<BR> Two adult people screw up (WS and OW), and a child is created out of that. While I certainly agree that OW has no rights to anything, all this talk about making sure that the OC gets nothing from his biological PARENT makes me quite ill. <BR> I applaud those of you who are concerned about the child, are working on insurance policies, etc. I can understand that it must be an extremely difficult situation, to try to sort out.<BR> For those of you concerned only that the OC gets nothing, well--you make me ashamed to be part of the same species as you.<BR> OC? OC? Doesn't a child deserve more than a couple of initials? While not planned, it is a CHILD who deserves everyone's best intentions. "Write off" the child, as you like--just keep in mind that in the end, you may be "written off" as well. . .</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Dear Holding Her Hand:<P>Many of us mention the product of our spouses as oc because we do not want to mention the child by name. That's not fair to the child. Many of us are very concerned about the child, but we are also concerned about protecting our families. It doesn't help if the ow is not a nice person-and for some people here on this board, thats an understatement! There are good ow who post here, but some of our ow are just out there to milk as much money possible out of the situation. My reason for posting this thread was not to say let's neglect the innocent child, but to see how we can protect our families from some very manipulative, vindictive, greedy ow's. It was very nice to get advice on how to also protect the oc's future. <P>Everyone here handles this difficult situation in their own way. Everyone here is in different stages of recovery. Some people are in the anger phase, some people may be having a bad day, and some people in order to get through a very painful betrayal may not be able to handle the other child aspect of the situation at the moment, and that may be why it seems as if they or even we have little regard for the innocent child. But, that is our right. We post here to get things like this off our chest, not to be insulted or belittled.<P>FYI: The day I found out, my h and I went to buy our new son things at the baby store, and I insisted we but my step-daughter some clothes. <BR>Like I said, some days, we just have bad days!<P>ivc<P>

IVC,<BR>crashers like this don't really care about the facts or real people's feelings. Most of these type posts are hit and runs that don't want to engage in honest debate.<P>Also, you don't have to repost people's replies--it makes the posts unnecessarily long.<P>Thanks for bringing up this important topic! I shared the info with hubby so we can make a new plan.<BR>

a) not a crasher, I'm a lurker--NOT a hit and run post<BR>b) do care about feelings<BR>c) am perfectly interested in an honest debate, anytime.<P>Please don't judge me by the fact that you see my first post to this board as being negative. . . I was lurking, got stuck reading that particular post over and over and over. . .<BR>Finally, couldn't take it any more, had to say what I had to say! Really wanted an answer as to why it seemed that people had no regard for a child's interests. Which I got from IVC (thank you), and understood perfectly well without the help of a quick bash from someone (Jenny). <BR>Guess I'm not welcome, will never do you the dishonor of daring to post (or have a concer/question) again. . . (Though I can't say I won't lurk. . .)

HHH, I am the W of a H who has OC's. I care for all the children of the world. Right now, I can only care for mine properly. It is not that I dislike OC's, only that they are not my responsibility. ember

You know HHH, at one time I would have given you a very thoughtful long reply... That was before our board had many ugly incidents from people who have done exactly what I described above. Perhaps it is not your intention to do that, or perhaps you are one of them, and frankly I'm beyond caring. I am on this board to lend an ear and a word for people suffer a similar set of horrible heartbreaking circumstances, which you probably aren't or you would have a better idea of how violated we might feel.<P>Prayers for all,<BR>J

HHH,<P>The term "write off" is just a term which means a person doesn't get money. Please don't take it so personally. <P>In SOME states, ANY parent can "write off" their biological children from their will. Perhaps the adult child is a drug addict and the parents do not wish to contribute anymore. Perhaps the adult child is in jail for murdering a child or adult and the parents have "disowned" them. Perhaps there's a child out there whom you do not know how he/she will be raised, how he/she will be as an adult and you don't even know if the mother or the child will be "honorable" enough to give inheritance money to the child like he/she is supposed to receive.<P>In other states, one cannot "write off" a child, but can "write off" a spouse. <P>Although you may not like the term "write off", it is essential in some cases. Let me give you a scenario to put a bit of reality into your presumed logic:<P>Take a young couple, both under the age of 40, with three children, all under the age of 10. Her husband's insurance policy is for 10 grand (the usual starting amount), plus three months salary. The couple would like to purchase additional insurance, however the couple is also paying an enormous amount of child support every month to the OC (OC is used to protect the privacy of the child, the mother of the child, the wife, the husband and their children). Bills quickly fall behind because of the extra money going out to the OC. The husband can't get a better paying job because with a better paying job keeps them in the same predictament. More money in means more money out to OC. <P>So take this family as your starting point. One could say they should just get another policy. However, as I pointed out, they are already scraping the barrel, teetering on the edge of drowning in financial disgrace because of the extra money going out. Add in counseling bills to keep their marriage intact and the situation is awfully ugly. <P>The couple finds a cheap policy for an additional 10 grand.<BR>However, the husband has a life threatening pre-existing condition so the once cheap policy is now three times more expensive. <P>So, upon this man's death, the marital family will receive 10 grand, plus three months salary. I don't know if you've buried anyone recently or even have a clue as to what a funeral, burial plot and casket cost, but I have and it costs about 10 grand. The three month salary is just enough to get this family back on their feet so the now widowed wife can find a job to support her minor children. Social security kicks in, however child support to the OC must still be paid on a monthly basis and the amount does not decrease. It remains the same as if the husband was still alive and working. Sometimes is can increase if the mother of the OC wants more, wants to send her child to a private school or if the OC wants to go to college (in some states). In addition, this now widowed wife must also find a job willing to provide medical insurance for not only her children, but also the OC (in some states). Since this widowed mother now has to find a full-time job, she also must find full-time daycare for her children. Again, I don't know what you pay, but for three children, the cost will range from $800-$1000 a month. <P>Now, what would you do about giving money to an OC who you do not know and do not communicate with? <P>The courts mandate that if a father is paying child support to ANY child while alive, that support must continue until the child reaches the age of maturity (In some states the age is 18, yet in others it's 21.) even if the father dies. In some states, it is mandated the father carry a policy in the amount of support until the age reaches maturity. Such policies can amount to the hundred thousand dollar level depending on the age of the child, the amount of support etc. Some people are paying $1000 a month in support. If the OC is an infant, your talking a policy over $200,000. This may seem like a decent amount to pay, may seem like pennies to you, however, taking the example family above, the cost would be a serious financial burden to given the pre-existing condition as well as the monthly money already being sent. Just because you hold the policy doesn't mean you don't have to pay the monthly amount. As a "bonus" from the court, every year you can reduce the required insurance policy amount. So, the following year, the family would have to hold a policy in the amount of approx. $188 grand. <P>If you thinkscenarios like the one above is hogwash and don't exist, I'll tell you it's not. My husband is under the age of 40 and has a condition which makes him an extreme high risk in "life insurance land". We are basically stuck with the basics his job offers. We only received that because the condition wasn't diagnosed until a few years after he was hired and they cannot terminate the policy. However, what they can do is charge us an astronomical amount if we want an additional policy, an amount we cannot afford now. <P>If my husband would die before retirement age, my children (who would still be minors) and I would be in a financial crisis, probably one which would force me to file for welfare. Given our current financial situation, social security wouldn't be enough to pay the household bills, and still provide a decent home for our children. College would be a dream. <P>So, you tell me what would be fair? To not "write off" the OC means that my children and I will forever have to pay for the mistake my husband made. Would you be willing to pay the same price? I don't think you would. And if you were FORCED to, I'm sure you wouldn't be really happy about it. That's what this board discussion was about - protection our children (read again OUR Children) in the event of OUR husband's (read again OUR husband's) deaths. <P>Some of the above wives may have ample policies should their husband's die. However, they will STILL have to pay for child support for the OC until the child reaches the age of maturity. What they DON'T want to share is that policy, a policy THEY have helped pay for, THEY have worked hard for, THEY have maintained since the beginning of THEIR childrens birth. So, being that the OC will still receive child support until he/she reaches the age of maturity, why should this wife not "write off" the OC from the family will? If the mother of the OC is concerned, she too can purchase her OWN policy in her OWN child's name and/or take the monthly child support payment and invest it. She too is a grown PARENT. If I am to provide for MY own children upon my husband's death, then she too should HAVE to provide for her OWN child upon the child's father's death. <P>So, you see, not all situations are like the "pretty" one you seem to believe. As a mother, my interest is for the children. They just happen to be my own.<P>Take care,<BR>CoR<P>

HHH,<P>If you do not wish to be judged, then please refrain from judging. This is not a situation where theories work. It is not a situation where one outside the circle KNOWS what they would do given the same situation, nor one which one outside the circle should tell one inside the circle what they should do. <P>I am all for the "best interest of the child". In my situation, it's for the children who call me Mom. <P>Take care,<BR>CoR<P>

COR,<BR>Well said and explained a lot of our feelings.<P>In our case our son is grown. We plan on giving him EVERYTHING including the family business.(construction company)<P>We worked hard for a lot of years for that reason. OC will get his grandmothers estate.(ow mom). They have plenty of money. That is why we elect to "write oc off".<P>Love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

I would just like to add my thoughts here.<P>Although we have not yet made up a will, when we bought our house last year, we chose to have my aunt (who lent us the money for the house) put the title in her name. It is the only thing we own of any value. as far as the government is concerned, however, my aunt owns it.<P>Why do we do this? To prevent our children from being homeless.<P>Because if the house were owned jointly by me and my h, imagine what could happen if my husband died.<P>Oc would automatically inherit partial interest in the house upon h's death. Ow could (and WOULD) force a sale to get the oc's interest in cash. We would be forced to sell our home, which in the location it is at, would bring very little money. Real estate is very cheap here, and estate sales generally for even less than the already low market value (we bought this place AT an estate sale, so I know how cheaply it would sell for). Whatever money the house brought would be divided, with ow receiving oc's portion. We would be homeless, and there would not be enough left over to purchase any home whatsoever. Whatever money was left from the sale would be eaten up within a year after the mortgage was paid, just for us to rent a small apartment.<P>If we do not take the necessary steps to prevent oc from inheriting, we WOULD be homeless. I will lose the house that I worked so hard for years to purchase. To me and my children, it is home. To ow, it would be a couple thousand dollars of free money.<P>This is not a case where we are trying to be vindictive towards oc or prevent her from having what is rightfully hers. It is a case where we are merely protecting what is rightfully ours. Ow did not work one single hour to pay for my home. She did not fix up one room, or paint one wall. Neither did oc. Or, for that matter, neither did my children. In the event of their father's death, they would have to grow up and buy their own homes as well. That's the way life is.<P>In the event of my husband's untimely death, I would have to work to provide for them. Ow will have to work to provide for her child as well. She will not take anything away from my children to provide for hers.<P>We are not talking about an illegitimate child being denied millions of dollars. we are talking about a family protecting itself from a greedy ow. This is not a situation in which the woman contributed in any way towards our financial security. We work hard for what we have, and we intend to keep it.<BR>-cd