My birthday was yesterday........H left to go out of town, OW called and they talked for short time yesterday. I'm feeling second best, insecure and confused as usual. D-day was 5/4/01...How long will it take me to get past the hurt I feel, the anger, etc.? When I try to talk to H about how I'm hurting, he says it makes him feel as if nothing he does is good enough. Am I always going to damned if I talk and damned if I keep it inside? Should one of us move out of the house? I just don't feel like I'm getting anywhere....My next counseling session is Monday and I think I need some support before then...any words of wisdom?

I'm sorry for your fresh pain. I hope your counselor is great!<P>Do you and your H know it takes about 2 years to recover from an affair??? When OC is involved, it's that much more complicated. Your feelings WILL get better with time(!) and you will eventually be less obsessed with it all, but your H should be willing to listen some to your pain--it is still VERY early!!! This will get better faster if it's talked about and dealt with now rather than ignored and festering. <P>I hate to keep saying this but PLEASE get some affair recovery book(s), and if necessary make your H read pertainent sections if not the whole thing. These books are SOOOO full of helpful info!! The betrayers must take actions to show they are remorseful and try to repair the trust relationship. My favorite book is After the Affair by Janis Abram Spring and it's very friendly to both betrayer and betrayed. Dr. Harley marriage stuff is also great. Your H's reaction is normal, but he ought to "get over" his attitude rather than expect you to get through the entire grief process in ONE MONTH. Sorry--These guys make me mad. This is major grief with all the stages and it takes months, even years, to feel resolve.<P>I hope something I said is of some help. Take what works for you and leave the rest.<P>Godbless,<BR>J <BR>PS I just realized you said your H talked with XOW. Are you in agreement with that? How do you feel about him being out of town? Is it near XOW? Is he taking action to show you where he is and who he's (not)with? Do you know it is not recommended for "affairee" to continue any solo contact even when OC is involved? <p>[This message has been edited by Jenny (edited June 27, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>PS I just realized you said your H talked with XOW. Are you in agreement with that? How do you feel about him being out of town? Is it near XOW? Is he taking action to show you where he is and who he's (not)with? Do you know it is not recommended for "affairee" to continue any solo contact even when OC is involved? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree w/jenny. mbm. Is that ok w/you? Not w/me. I am the go between but ow won't talk to me now. Only my H! Too bad. She may not depend on him as if he were her xHusband!<P>Happy b/day!<P>Love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gemini1:<BR><B> I agree w/jenny. mbm. Is that ok w/you? Not w/me. I am the go between but ow won't talk to me now. Only my H! Too bad. She may not depend on him as if he were her xHusband!<P>Happy b/day!<P>Love<BR>Debi<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Seeing/talking with OW is definitely not OK with me! He travels with his job, and that's how it was so convenient for the affair to start and continue....I have very hard time with him being gone. I have asked him to call more frequently during day, etc. but he still goes out with customers (?) other people at night...the trust issue is a very big hurdle for me. <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jenny:<BR><B>I'm sorry for your fresh pain. I hope your counselor is great!<P>Do you and your H know it takes about 2 years to recover from an affair??? When OC is involved, it's that much more complicated. Your feelings WILL get better with time(!) and you will eventually be less obsessed with it all, but your H should be willing to listen some to your pain--it is still VERY early!!! This will get better faster if it's talked about and dealt with now rather than ignored and festering. <P>I hate to keep saying this but PLEASE get some affair recovery book(s), and if necessary make your H read pertainent sections if not the whole thing. These books are SOOOO full of helpful info!! The betrayers must take actions to show they are remorseful and try to repair the trust relationship. My favorite book is After the Affair by Janis Abram Spring and it's very friendly to both betrayer and betrayed. Dr. Harley marriage stuff is also great. Your H's reaction is normal, but he ought to "get over" his attitude rather than expect you to get through the entire grief process in ONE MONTH. Sorry--These guys make me mad. This is major grief with all the stages and it takes months, even years, to feel resolve.<P>I hope something I said is of some help. Take what works for you and leave the rest.<P>Godbless,<BR>J <BR>PS I just realized you said your H talked with XOW. Are you in agreement with that? How do you feel about him being out of town? Is it near XOW? Is he taking action to show you where he is and who he's (not)with? Do you know it is not recommended for "affairee" to continue any solo contact even when OC is involved? <P>[This message has been edited by Jenny (edited June 27, 2001).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>I've been pretty pleased with my counselor so far...I know there's no magic formula. He did suggest the Janis Abram SPring book, and I'm almost thru it, also reading Dr. Harley's book. H hasn't read anything on his own, so I guess I'm going to have to suggest it in a way that won't seem attacking. I guess for most part I feel like he should be doing more to help me feel like he understands my pain.........I agree the part about time, but I want to talk about it instead of letting it fester inside of me, because I become resentful that way. H says he feels like I Could talk about it 24/7....I know life goes on, but this is my life and in order for me to move on, I need answers and consideration of my feelings, is that too much to ask? I think not. As far as H talking to OW, I do not want that at all........she calls him; he says he hasn't called her since he confessed to me, but who knows. I don't want him anywhere near the OW, but it's up to him to be honest with me, and I don't know what's the truth and what's a lie, so I have to take him at his word. Will keep you all posted... I'll be out of the country with my dad for 8 days 7/6 - 7/15, so please keep me in your prayers and pray that these untrusting thoughts won't play in my mind the entire time I'm gone! Thanks!<P><BR>

Just wanted to let you know you are in my prayers. Dont have much to add after the other two wonderful women here, except I put Surviving An Affair (Harley) in the bathroom for H's reading material. After a while he ran out of other stuff to read and he gave in...lol.<BR>Love<BR>broken_wings

mbm said: "I need answers and consideration of my feelings, is that too much to ask?" and "I don't know what's the truth and what's a lie, so I have to take him at his word." <P>Whoa, Nelly! It is NOT your job to rebuild your trust! IT'S HIS!!!! No, it's NOT too much to ask. Personally I think your H is way off base here and maybe it is time for him to face consequences for his actions? Continuing to answer XOW calls against your wishes, continuing same out of town behavior that allowed the A, and not wanting to listen to or validate your feelings do not constitue a recovery on his part!! I see no reason for you to trust in him when he hasn't changed any behaviors. <P>You asked if one of you should move out. I don't know. I have not been in your exact situation, your finances, your emotions and history. I think it is appropriate for you to decide if you can continue this way or if you will give him consequences for not taking recovery seriously, and it's up to you what the consequence would be, moving out being one option; then you could tell him: I need to see X, Y and Z happen with (perhaps one week) or the consequence. XYZ I'm thinking of the concrete actions for rebuilding trust in the Abram Spring book.<P>Congradulations on reading so much and going to counseling! <BR>Prayers to you, <BR>J

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jenny:<BR><B>mbm said: "I need answers and consideration of my feelings, is that too much to ask?" and "I don't know what's the truth and what's a lie, so I have to take him at his word." <P>Whoa, Nelly! It is NOT your job to rebuild your trust! IT'S HIS!!!! No, it's NOT too much to ask. Personally I think your H is way off base here and maybe it is time for him to face consequences for his actions? Continuing to answer XOW calls against your wishes, continuing same out of town behavior that allowed the A, and not wanting to listen to or validate your feelings do not constitue a recovery on his part!! I see no reason for you to trust in him when he hasn't changed any behaviors. <P>You asked if one of you should move out. I don't know. I have not been in your exact situation, your finances, your emotions and history. I think it is appropriate for you to decide if you can continue this way or if you will give him consequences for not taking recovery seriously, and it's up to you what the consequence would be, moving out being one option; then you could tell him: I need to see X, Y and Z happen with (perhaps one week) or the consequence. XYZ I'm thinking of the concrete actions for rebuilding trust in the Abram Spring book.<P>Congradulations on reading so much and going to counseling! <BR>Prayers to you, <BR>J </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks for the insight on the trust issue. I've been thinking that it's my responsibility to learn to trust H again, but you're absolutely right......He must work hard to gain my trust that has been shattered to pieces.I'm going to re-read that chapter on concete actions of Janis A Spring's book... If recovery is going to happen with our marriage, then some changes have to take place. Not just by H but me also. I am working hard to not let this consume me, but its so hard. Just keep me talking about it with others who have been there and can understand where I'm coming from. This site is the greatest! Thanks for the shoulder!<BR>

mbm,<BR>I'm so glad you found anything of help. The board seems kinda quiet lately, so you're not getting as many responses as usual. I'm hoping it means so many of us are doing so well that we're ready to move on You'll get to that place eventually to, mbm! Hopefully WITH your man, but even without him there can be a happy tomorrow... Obsessing in the early days, months, is soooo normal! (But it takes TWO to have a relationship.)<P>More prayers and good wishes,<BR>J

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jenny:<BR><B>mbm,<BR>I'm so glad you found anything of help. The board seems kinda quiet lately, so you're not getting as many responses as usual. I'm hoping it means so many of us are doing so well that we're ready to move on You'll get to that place eventually to, mbm! Hopefully WITH your man, but even without him there can be a happy tomorrow... Obsessing in the early days, months, is soooo normal! (But it takes TWO to have a relationship.)<P>More prayers and good wishes,<BR>J</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Thanks for your prayers and cheerful messages....they mean so much. I know it will take a long time to become less obsessive about this situation and I know that I will be ok without H if things don't work out between us, it's just so scary and I don't like the limbo feelings, but I guess that's normal!It brings some comfort knowing that other women have survived and have healthy marriages so all I can say is more power to you all, and hopefully I will join you all some day!<BR>

MBM,<P>Speaking from my ripe old age of 10 months past Dday, I have to say you are so young, so new in the process. Everything that you are experiencing is so common, so normal.<P>Getting my H to break phone contact with OW was the hardest thing. It took about 7 months even though I know that the physical affair was over. She was using him as a verbal punching bag, as her counselor, as her friend and I was da**ed if I was going to remain (forever) in an emotional triangle. H finally woke up one day, asked me for a divorce because he "couldn't stand being caught between the two of us anymore." I told him that there was another solution--stop talking to xOW and he would a) remove himself from being in the middle b) begin to restore his marriage and c) feel a lot better when she could no longer guilt him out.<P>Things are much better and there is often light at the end of the tunnel. What you do need to know is whatever happens you will be OK. People love you and those of us on this board want to support you.<P>MJ

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mrs. Job:<BR><B>MBM,<P>Speaking from my ripe old age of 10 months past Dday, I have to say you are so young, so new in the process. Everything that you are experiencing is so common, so normal.<P>Getting my H to break phone contact with OW was the hardest thing. It took about 7 months even though I know that the physical affair was over. She was using him as a verbal punching bag, as her counselor, as her friend and I was da**ed if I was going to remain (forever) in an emotional triangle. H finally woke up one day, asked me for a divorce because he "couldn't stand being caught between the two of us anymore." I told him that there was another solution--stop talking to xOW and he would a) remove himself from being in the middle b) begin to restore his marriage and c) feel a lot better when she could no longer guilt him out.<P>Things are much better and there is often light at the end of the tunnel. What you do need to know is whatever happens you will be OK. People love you and those of us on this board want to support you.<P>MJ</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know that I am so "green" when it comes to getting past the anger, etc. Thanks to all of you for your support. H and I are trying to work on our marriage but the OC stands in my way. H says I look at it from emotional standpoint....he is looking at it from a business deal. What does that mean? I am so confused. I want so badly for him to have zero contact with OW, and have told him so, but how do you get OW from calling his cell and I only have to hope H tells me when she phones?!!! I feel so stressed out I can't see straight some days, and then other days I'm ready to hit the door......Is there anyone on the board who has left their H?? That's not my intention, but I'd just like to know. Thanks for your reply and keep 'em coming......I definitely need it!!!!!! Will keep in touch.<P>

Dear MBM,<P>I hope that you don't think I implied anything bad when I said that you were new at this. I was looking at you and thinking with fondness (tenderness?) that I remember what it felt like to be so new to the process and to have my emotions so raw. I wanted to hold your hand, to comfort you in some way, not to imply that there was anything wrong with you for being at the stage that you are in.<P>As for getting the OW to stop calling. Hmmm....I don't have much advice. The only one who can stop that is your H. He will have to tell her no more contact and then stop taking her calls (most cells have caller ID) and not returning her messages. I am no example in this case of how to get H to do this. I screamed, ranted and threatened divorce. I am glad in the end that he chose me and not her. It could just as easily have gone the other way. At those times when I had better control of my emotions I would tell him how hurt I was by ongoing contact, I admitted how afraid I was of her, I took the issue to our marriage counselor time after time. Each time he promised it would stop and then the next month came and there were 30, 40, 50 phone calls and those were just the ones that he initiated because our phone bill doesn't show the # of incoming calls.<P>In our case, we were trying to work out visitation. Each time we would get near a visit she would get hysterical and start calling him all the time. He would phone back trying to get her calmed down. She was making all kinds of demands, like--only H could come to the door to pick up OC, I had to stay at the hotel--not a snowball's chance in Hades that I was going to let them have even 5 minutes alone. He said he was simply trying to make sure that the visitation went well. Finally a few days before a visit (these were expensive cross-country trips for us) H snapped. He told me he wanted a divorce, he said horrible things to OW but none to me. He told me I was a good person but that he couldn't go on in this horrible situation. As for OW, he told her she was alone and probably always would be (that is her worst nightmare, being alone forever) and that if she wanted to know why she only had to take a good long look at herself. A couple of days later he told me he didn't want a divorce. I was glad because I truly didn't want one and I had been pretty certain that he didn't either. For us it was the turning point. I now feel safe in our marriage. She even called him on our home phone (she never called here, just H's cell phone) on Father's Day and you know what? I don't care. She means nothing. She is no longer a threat to us.<P>We have had to stop visitation for awhile until OW can gain better control of her behavior and emotions. I miss OC more than I think my H does. I believe that we will resume visitation, maybe by the holidays, but for right now everyone needed a break.<P>When the affair books said it would take at least a year for our marriage to heal, I thought they were talking about me taking a year to heal. I had no idea they meant that it was going to take so long for him to turn around. I thought that once his A was discovered, he would be very repentent and working his behind off to make this up to me. I had no idea that he had so much work to do on himself, that he had totally destroyed himself by having the A, that he was in no shape to be in relationship to anyone until he came out of his own depression.<P>MJ<p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Job (edited July 01, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mrs. Job:<BR>.............<BR>When the affair books said it would take at least a year for our marriage to heal, I thought they were talking about me taking a year to heal. I had no idea they meant that it was going to take so long for him to turn around. I thought that once his A was discovered, he would be very repentent and working his behind off to make this up to me. I had no idea that he had so much work to do on himself, that he had totally destroyed himself by having the A, that he was in no shape to be in relationship to anyone until he came out of his own depression.<P>MJ[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm beginning to understand that H is also going thru some of same emotions I am; but like you said, I feel like he should seem a little more remorseful and work his tail off to gain my trust and forgiveness. H acts like a huge weight has been lifted from his shoulders since confessing A and OC and that life goes on. I need a little repentance! H says I don't focus on the positive steps he's taking, only when he get's home later than he tells me he would and doesn't call, or when I can't reach him on his cell. I plan on talking to counselor about this tomorrow. I don't think I'm being paranoid, just normal under circumstances. I didn't take your words as hurtful, and I'm working on my patience because I am otherwise a very patient person. It's just that I don't want to "waste" precious time in a marriage that won't recover. But how will I know if I don't stick it out til next year? Only the good Lord knows...Thanks again for "holding my hand" through this ordeal.<BR>

Wow, a lot to respond to. I agree with many of the women here. Fortunately, my H answered ALL my questions without the hint of defensiveness and he did very well with my emotions. <BR>He also has minimal contact with her and that is only to confirm visitation plans. We pick OC up from daycare and she comes here to our home to pick him up. I still check my H's cellphone bill every month and question every number I dont recognize. He answers every question and if he cant tell me who's number it is, he calls the number right there in front of me. <BR>Couldn't H get a new cellphone # for a minimal fee and give it out only to clients and u? She can call your home if she is that desperate to talk to H. You can screen the call/intercept/stand in waiting etc. If H does not agree to some of YOUR ground rules, then he has something to hide in my opinion.<BR>What does your counselor say about this? Have any of these issues been discussed in couseling?<BR>Good luck and ditto to everyone who says it gets better. If H is willing to do whatever it takes, it definitely gets better. <BR>

Mbm626,<P>Wow, you have a lot on your plate and all at once. Still many have a lot of experience here. I have been here since Jan 01 and on this forum for a couple of months. <P>Ow is calling H for any ol reason. Now that there maybe a OC (OW claims to be preg), OW wants more contact & money. H cut it off contact. One of my requirements was change the work cell and pager #s. H still has yet to do it but we discussed it this weekend and he said he would (said it before, last time I need to ask because I am getting tired of babysitting H). <P>This changing numbers was and is important to me. If OW has anything of importance to say, she can call the house phone and deal with me. If she can not do that, it must not be important enough. OW claims that now she can not talk freely to H. That is right. Her idea of talking freely is nasty stuff. She can save that for someone else. Obviously she doesn't do that to her H. Hm....<P>Anyway, letting your H know your needs and having him meet them is necessary for recovery. It is a requirement for rebuilding the trust. A vital element of a marriage. <P>Wish I had more to say. Just feel strongly about meeting the BS needs. <P>Take Care you have been getting good advice form the others here. <BR>L.<BR>

I have known for about 2 months, so I am in the same boat as you. My H did not understand why I had all of these questions and concerns and emotions. I asked him question after question over and over again and he became very frustrated. I was and still am an emotional roller coaster. One day he kind of snapped and acted a lot like your H. I explained to him that if he means what he said about wanting to keep me, then he will have to give me what I need and will have to deal with me and my emotions. He responded that he felt such incredible guilt that it was difficult for him to talk about it. After that things got better since we both understood where each other was coming from. We try to do happy things where we don't talk about the A and then we try to set time to talk about it.<P>Sometimes during bad days, I get so depressed and focused on this whole mess. My H has the urge to leave the room because he feels there is nothing he can do; the damage has already been done. We are still trying to work through this.<P>In regards to the OW, we made a deal. For me, the A is definately over. I let him talk to her one time. After that we talk to her together and only together. The OW tries to control the situation, but we try to handle it us against her. The only topics discussed are the OC. This was part of our Policy of Joint Agreement; we do all decisions together.<P>Every situation is different, so not sure that any of this will help. Be strong and have courage. Take things day-by-day and hour-by-hour when needed. Do what is right for you. <P>Good luck and may the wind be with you,<BR>Nikita<BR>

Thanks, everyone for your kind words of support. I'm getting ready to leave the country for almost 10 days w/out H, just me and my Dad, so I'm extremely apprehensive about leaving him alone. H assures me that nothing will happen, but I still don't have alot of trust, and shouldn't! I suppose this will be a test for both of us, I just hope I manage ok. Anyway, keep me in you thoughts and prayers, and I'll be back on the 16th.