<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Tina71 ]</p>

First of all, sorry to have to welcome you. My bifg fear after the first oc was that my h would slip up and get her pregnant again. But thank God he got snipped. Anyway I think that at this point you need to make sure that you are involved in every aspect of ow and oc. Make your presence known. Take it from me, I didn't do it and now 2 years later I don't see it happening. He sees oc without me and sometimes without me knowing. Insist that your h have a vasectomy. It doesn't sound as if you are going to have any more children,insist. Get EVERYTHING legal. You also become the 3rd party mediator. Insist that you make all of the arrangements, visitation and such. You make sure that you are at ow's house when he goes to give her a break. He is your h . She shouldn't had an affair with someone elses h . Be very strong, without being arrogant. I s the affair over with?

Dear tina,<BR>You need a new counselor, one who will focus on restoring your marriage-period. How it will help your relationship with your h to have him going to ow's house to help her is beyond me. And three very nice people? Give me a break!<P>tina, marriages are comprised of two people. find yourself a counselor who knows that.<P>That said, I am so sorry that this has happened to you. Continue to post, and I'm sure some more will be along to help.<BR>with love,<BR>cd

Thanks Blue and Cd for your words of advice. Yes the PA has been over now since Sept. Still working on the EA. Slowly we have been working on the legalities. H has set up insurance policy, and we have changed our wills to protect our children, and myself. H insisted on that. As for me being the contact person setting up visitation, I am terrified to come face to face with this woman. I am such a wus when it comes to confrontation. H has asked me to try and find another counselor. I guess I need to get out the phone book and make some calls, I really don't know the right questions to ask when finding the right counselor. I still find it very difficult to discuss this when anyone, I am person who doesn't like to burden other people with my problems, and tend to try and solve them myself.

You don't have to have face to face confrontations with her . Use the telephone at first. Do you know whether or not ow has hostile feeling sfor you or is she one of the few with remorse and a conscience. The fact that she had a second child with him indicates a lot of delusional behavior on her part. If he didn't leave you with the first child, why would he leave you after the second oc? If this Ea doesn't end with her ,I would be worried about a third child. Please be strong and protect yourself. Try not to be afraid of ow.

Blue, I am trying to figure out if ow does have any remorse in this. I know H has stated to her that he wants marriage to work, and he told her that he will not ever let anything happen between them again. I do believe he is committed to making this work, he has been very open with me (at my insistance) about every conversation, and every visit, there are no more secrets. Thanks again for support.

Dear tina,<BR>when you call around, specifically ask if the counselor is familiar with the Harley marriagebuilders philosophies. If not, ask if they are willing to become familiar with them and work within their guidelines. I understand if you call the Harley's telephone number posted on the main site, they will refer you to counselors trained in their philosophies in your area. good luck.<BR>-cd PS Don't be scared of ow - she's probably more scared of you than you are of her!

Tina,<P>I agree with both CD and Blue. Especially about your counselor! Any marriage counselor who tells you that it is ok for H to go over and help OW "get out of the house" to "meet other people" is sending you up the wrong river without a boat! Your H shouldn't have any "private" contact with OW if your marriage is to heal! It is just putting them in a situation that could revert right back to their old habits so easily! Having just had a baby 3 1/2 mos ago, I know that you need to rest for those 6 weeks, not "get out of the house" to meet people! Your H should be concentrating on you and your marriage, not the OW and her feelings. Also, the CS that you have already set up, is it through the courts? If not, you could get stuck with paying back CS, since the CS being paid right now will most likely be considered a gift. I would see about getting a lawyer to force OW to get DNA testing done, so that everything will be done that much sooner.<P>Tigger

OMG Tina! What a blow. Looks like H is coming around but as cd and blue have said GET A NEW COUNSELOR!!!!<P>God bless you! I'll write more when I have more time.<P>Love<BR>Debi<P>Married 27 yrs. 1 21 yr old son. Me and H 48.....<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Tina,<BR>Welcome to the board! I'm sorry you're in this pain, but the board is a nice place for those in this situation. Not much time today but I agree with the others: Your counselor sucks! It is NOT H's job to improve the XOW's life!!!! Certainly doesn't enrich your marriage!!!! <P>Prayers for your marriage,<BR>J, almost 3 years in recovery

I agree with everyone that said get a new counselor. Your current one is an idiot!!! Sorry, but where did that counselor get his degree,,,counselors r us university?!?!<P>I am sure the OW is afraid of you. You really have all the power dont think otherwise. She probably called you 2 1/2 years ago to divert attention because you were getting too close.<P>My husband also had an affair with a coworker and I also asked many times due to my gut feelings. He also denied an A. Obviously he was lying too. He now has very little contact without me and if he does, I know about it ahead of time and he calls me immediately to tell me all the details of the conversation.<P>Good luck with your situation. Keep posting. You will find alot of support here.<BR>

<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Tina71 ]</p>

Dear Tina,<P>Loved your daughter's wisdom! Young people have a way of getting to the heart of things.<P>I had terrible experiences with counsellors and finally gave up on counselling. So, please keep searching for the right one for you. I do believe some of them get their degrees at "Counsellors R Us". Make sure that you feel comfortable and that the counsellor is concentrating on YOUR needs - you are the client.<P>I hope that MB will come up with someone for you. Even without a counsellor though, review the MB principles and familiarize yourself with them. The literature on the site helped me more than any counsellor that my H and I went to. <P>Also, reading books on relationships and infidelity were immensely helpful. You can get them at the library or through local bookstores. I was surprised at the huge supply available at the public library, so you might want to start there so you don't waste a great deal of money.<P>It is a difficult road, but with the great people on this forum to help you through, you will make it just fine.<P>love,<BR>heavenly

Hi Tina...<BR>I have not been on here much, trying to keep myself VERY busy so that I don't dwell on all of the crap we're all in...and consequently break more valuable glass items in my home. However, ditto to what everyone is saying about the counselor! Boy oh boy...that one really tops it..."nice person" MY [censored]! Of course, my feelings towards OW are still very, very fresh (I learned of A on Feb 1st). I also am historically afraid of confrontation, but let me tell you what happened to me:<P>My personality has completely changed! Confronting the OW was SINGLEY THE MOST MOTIVATION AND AMAZING things I have ever done! I was so hurt and angry...beyond BELIEF...when I learned of the A/OC! Within 2 days I learned of the OC/A, MET OW and LOST MY MIND! Looking back now, I wouldn't take away what I said to her! I had every right! Now, I am EXTREMELY protective of my life! I am VERY assertive (NOT AGGRESSIVE) and speak what I am feeling, instead of holding it inside. I do NOT let people run over me anymore or take advantage of me. It feels wonderful to finally take control of my life...whatever direction it may take!<P>Yes, I am still very, very hurt. After reading the posts, I know that it will take years to heal from this, and God help my H if he EVER does anything even remotely CLOSE to this again! I shall need a straight jacket and a lot of valium....and all of the wonderful people here!<P>Hang on to what you have, even if it doesn't seem like much at times. I know I have had emotional relapses, after posting on here that I was "fine" or "better", only to learn that it was simply "a good day". We will all send our love and prayers as well as UNDYING support your direction!<P>God Bless You,<BR>~Irish

Hi there Tina,<P>I just want to welcome you to our "family". Cant add on much more than what has been said. Ditto to all of it.<P>Love and Prayers<P>broken-wings

Tina71, I loved your sentence of feeling like the tazmanian devil meets Linda Blair. That is how I felt on the way to meet OW 5 yrs. ago. <P>When I first found out about A, I was so hurt, I told my M. My M told my Aunt, etc. We told all of our adult children. All adult children met one of the OC. All our family knows. Some think I am stupid for staying, others are happy that H and I are committed to each other again. <P>But you know what I have come to realize? Who cares what other people think! I have to do what my heart tells me is best for myself, and my H. ember

Hi Tina,<BR>Please help me understand how come wives desire to be involved in the OW and OC's lives and drag your kids into the whole mess? I think attempting any sort of relationship with the OC is unnecessary because it merely ties you to the OW? Is that what you really want? Perhaps I'm not understanding your circumstances fully, but it just seems to me that your children deserve to be protected from all the drama that your husband created by getting involved with "wenches" and "prostitutes" as previously described here and on other threads.<P>Your husbands appear to be working with you to repair your marriages and get back on track at home. So it seems to me that your children all deserve to be protected forever from the OW and the OC. (?) Child support is for the innocent child, NOT for the OW. Perhaps it helps to view it that way and that should be the extent of your involvement if you really care about doing the right thing?<P>Trust me, the pain that your H created in choosing a slut to make a baby with, has MORE than scarred the OW and OC for the rest of their lives. Even after repentance, OW and OC must deal with OWs mistake each and every day of their futures while you and your H and children can get on with somewhat normal lives. Right?<P>And how come there is so much anger geared toward the OW when all that energy can be spent pouring good into your relationship with your H and loving your kids and teaching them how not to mess up their lives when they grow up? As long as you harbor resentment toward the OW, your love for your own children remains poisoned and tainted. Your kids don't deserve that! The OW doesn't deserve any of your attention whatsoever, whether negative OR positive--by trying to have a relationship with her kid. <P>Remember the story of Sarah and Hagar, Sarah's maid? Sarah offered Hagar as an OW to Abraham in order to conceive an OC. Things got so hot in their kitchen that Hagar and the OC had to GO, LEAVE, DEPART!!! So, please set the (guilty) OW and (innocent) OC free from jail! They have a lifetime of pain and shame of their own to deal with. Focus on your own blessings, such as: Your husband is remorseful and working with you so your kids can grow up in the security of a 2-parent home. He and you also want to do the right thing by paying child support to the innocent OC. God will bless you all for doing the right thing!!<P>One of the MB members said, "Infidelity never goes away, it is only a thought away," which is true. But just because there is an innocent child involved doesn't mean that doing the right thing necessarily constitutes hands-on involvement of the W. So, I offer that you would consider what Sarah did and get the OW and OC out of your kitchen! Let your H develop an off-site friendship with OC--IF he chooses. The OW already knew she wouldn't have a father for her child when she chose a married man to sleep with!