In 1996, my world fell out beneath me. I found out by accident, that my H had two OC, and an ex-mistress?. She had left my state in 1992. If she were still in my state, I would be gone, regardless of when break-up was. <P>It has been a rocky road. My H has done everything right since, 5&1/2 years since D-day. <P>When I discovered this, I filed for a divorce immediately. H did not want a divorce. He put the house, stocks, bonds, accounts, etc., in my name only. This was not just love, but a gamble for him. In my state, after 3 yrs., it legally is yours. <P>H has done everything right, on his own, for last 5 yrs. <P>He was paying CS since OW left this state. I was never aware of it, until discovery. <P>Youngest child came to visit us, and meet all other 1/2 siblings. Oldest OC chose not to come. This was right after discovery. This happened only through the courts. <P>I talked to OW when OC was flying back, and she agreed to meet with me. I was a guest in her home for a weekend. I flew out to meet her, and both OC's. This was the most difficult week-end of my life. And hers too, I am sure. I flew home, and filed for divorce a second time.<P>She was a woman, my H loved at one time. To this day, he won't admit to it. H had a 10 year affair, and I really was totally ignorant of the situation.<P>My H, has been kind, considerate, caring, passionate, helpful, loving, good, thoughtful, caring, kind, compassionate, understanding, grateful, etc. I could go on and on. The point is, after 5 yrs. of hell, I fell in love again. I love the new H, not the old one he used to be. <P>If my H had not been so persistant, and attentive for the last 5 years, I would have been long gone. <P>We have not had anything to do with OW, or OC's, for 5 years now. If OC's seek us out on their own, we will talk to them. <P>OW gets CS. I wish them the best. <P>I never thought there was any hope for my H and myself. It took over 5 yrs, to get where I, and H are. We are going to be married 29 yrs., this year. To me, it's a miracle. I really do love him. <P>I do not blame the OW at all, only my H. ember

Dear Wonderful Ember,<BR>God grants us miracles.<P>You and H are an example...<BR>Bless you...<BR>Love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

ember,<BR>WOW, that's a stunning story. I'm speechless. Congradulations on your miraculous recovery!<P>Godbless,<BR>J

Ember,<BR>I agree with both the ladies said. That is some story.<BR>I think after a 10 year relationship, I too would blame just my H. It does not sound as if your OW is too evasive. Most of the OW here, want the marriages to break up wether or not they get the "prize". at least she moved far away.<BR>You have a great attitude, and strength. If you have been reading you know the women here are amazing, they have the strength of hurcules (emotionally) by what you wrote in your post and how you endured, it sound like you found the right place. I am a part time poster, I was in your shoes, but H was conned, he deserves it. he went through hell too, trying to hide things from me for months...I too Had no idea..no changes in his behavior seemed real attentive..I think that makes those of us that are so trusting, so so angry. It is SUCH a violation...not just having sex with someone else, BUT the blind comfortable trust we had in our spouses. That is what angers me the most. I wish you so much peace, you are just as amazing as the rest of the women here..keep posting you all will continue to benefit from each other...even though I "escaped" I want to have the strength and the wisdom these women have...I am just learning..welcome MC

My Cross, please do not misunderstand me. When I flew to OW's state, I asked her point blank, if she would take my H back if I divorced him. She said "yes", in a heartbeat. I do think she had me for a week-end, hoping I would go home and divorce H. H was so shocked that I had gone to see OW. It really turned everything that my H felt about her around. There was nothing left to hide. I have a feeling that if OW could do it over again, she would not have met with me. Actually, meeting OW in person, is partly what saved my marriage. I do not think my marriage would have worked, had I not known "the other side". Imagination can play on a person's mind. I hated "wondering".<P>Thank-you for all the responses. I wish I had found this board long ago.<P>I do not feel hate for the OW, like some do on this board. My H had a choice of working on our marriage, or contact with OC's. H chose me. We have had no contact at all with OW or OC's for 5 years now. I do feel many wives here are misdirecting the blame. OW did not have a marriage contract with H. I did. H is the person that broke the contract, not OW. H is the one to blame. I am attractive, and have been a head-turner for years. I think of all the passes made at myself throughout the years. I have always said "NO", I'm married. That is why H is the only one to blame, not OW. I do not condone OW's actions by any means, as she is the one who must live with her own conscious. OW did not betray me, my H did.<P>I admire the wives on this board who have contact with OC. In my case, it was not the answer, or an option, to my marriage. <P>When I first found out, I felt like killing them both, then committing sucide. My H realizes what he did, and how he almost destroyed me. It has taken over 5 yrs. for me to reach this point. H, and I are committed to each other again. I just wanted to emphasize that it just doesn't happen overnight. My H has put up with a lot in the past 5 yrs. Had the situation been reversed, and I the unfaithful one, I would have left. I would not have put up with "me". It took me a long time to realize just how special my H is. I am truly blessed. ember

I applaud you for your strength! You are a testament to those of us who are still dealing with the "freshness" of the situation. Thank you for your uplifting post.<P>~Irish

Ember,<P>Yours is avery heartfelt story and I commend you on your strength and love and obvious compassion.<BR>I felt the same way about ow at first...that it was my H who had betrayed me and she ddi not know me and owed me nothing. Then I talked to her and told her that if we were all going to be adults about this and put oc first then her and I would have to get along. She agreed. I then told her that I would not take her sleeping with my H "personal" as she did not know me, but as of the conversation anything else done would be a stab in the back...personally. She said ok and I am sure the moment she hung up the phone she was calling my H twisting my words. She was manipulative and a cunning little bi$@&. It was not enough that she tried to take my H and make him the father of both her kids. (she had one previous with no dad either). She cared not about my daughter. Therefore I wrestle everyday with the hate I feel for her. We did at one time talk about me flying there to stay with her for the weekend. Never did. I have never met here and part fo me now is grateful for that, but the other side i sstill curious. How do you rid yourself of the loathing? I do not like that I might HATE someone. It is not what I have been taught and I have considered talking to my pastor about it. As a matter of fact I would still like to rip her eyeballs out and shove them down her throat. That i s horrible isnt it.....sigh.<BR>broken_wings

broken_wings, I am sorry for your pain. How long has it been since D-day? Why does your H still speak to OW? Perhaps that is one of the reasons I chose "no contact" with OC's after meeting them. When OW drove me back to catch my plane 5 years ago, I simply told her that I did not feel it was in the best interest for OC's to be exposed to our unhappy marriage. H's and our families, and children, were hurt enough already. <P>Children need stability, and role-models to follow. I needed trust and stability myself. My marriage was extremely unstable. My H and I were not happy for 5 years, until now. Neither one of us were good "role-models", and were having our own problems with our own children. <P>All our children, and most of our family, know of the situation. Our children met the one OC in person 5 years ago. None of our grown children have any desire for contact. <P>The OC's are as innocent as I, in this whole situation. Someday, they could come knocking on our door. It's like being adopted; some seek their biological parents, some don't. If the time comes, I'll deal with it then. I know I would answer any questions they would have. It wasn't their fault either. <P>It almost sounds as if you are being forced into step mom. Is this something you really want? When OC flew here 5 years ago to visit, we let the courts, and our attorney make the arrangements. You and H should not have to deal with OW at all, or accept her calls. This arrangement can be made in court. <P>My prayers are with you. ember<BR>

ember,<BR>I thought of a question for you. Did you at any point know the XOW during the affair? I do understand your point about the violation being your H's and your feeling there (the blame all his) is a mature one. However, some of us knew the XOW prior to and during the affair, considered her a friend, in which case I think we are entitled to feel betrayed by both.<P>Thank you again for your story. It's validating, inspiring, and comforting for recovery! It also speaks again that what will work towards recovery is sooooo individual. Listen to those gut feelings!

Jenny, no, I did not know her. They met at work. I don't feel it would have been any different if I had known her, unless, on a very personal, good friend type of thing. I did meet her face to face, and was introduced to her by my H. I had no idea. I met her again at a later date. I still had no idea. Call it blind trust of the one I love. My life with my H is very different today, compared to back then. I used to wait on my H, hand and foot. I did it out of love. Today, my H waits on me. Sometimes I truly enjoy it, other times I feel guilty for taking advantage of this new life. If you had asked me how I felt about my H a year ago, I could not answer you. I have lived in a maze for 5 years. Only recently have I recommitted to my H again in every sense of the word. For 5 years, I have looked back, analyzed, tried to make sense of the whole thing. I finally decided to either live again, or leave. I chose to stay because of my H's track record for the past 5 years. No man on earth, could prove to me, better than my H did, by word, deed, and love. Actions speak tons. I am now grateful that I chose not to leave. OW knew he was married. She thought H would leave me, if she had his children. She gambled and lost. H and I adopted one of our children, the others are from H's, and my first young, teen-age marriages. We are married 29 years this year. <P>I do feel betrayal of one of my very close friends, who knew, and saw OW from time to time. I have had no contact with them since. If you know the OW on a personal level, it would be a double betrayal. It would still not change the status of my H breaking his marriage vows to me. Just my opinion, ember

Hi all,<P>I am back after vacation and of course, couldn't wait to come here again.<P>Ember, Wow! great story of triumph. I am glad that things are working out OK for you and H.<P>However, I don't feel that OW is innocent in all of this, although in my strange way, I have no hatred of her. I think that most of the blame lies with my H. Certainly he is the one who violated *our* marriage vows.<P>However, our OW is a serial OW. She seems to get some sort of a thrill out of this type of relationship. At 18! years old, she moved in with a 44-year-old married man after she had driven him and his wife apart. She filed his divorce papers for him, because "he didn't have the b*lls to do it himself." She seems to like married men. I actually have a great deal of sympathy for her despite this. We have met, we have contact with OC, and I actually like OW (a little bit). She is a beautiful young woman with a lot going for her, brains, body, beauty, youth, but she is a (as we used to say in college) a hurting unit. I can't imagine for one minute giving 7 years of my young life to a MM who could offer me next to nothing. I had too much self-respect. It seems she has none. Also, in this sick triangle two of us have moved on to repair our lives (H and me) and one of us remains stuck in the past (guess who?)<P>Also, there are rules in all societies. Ours says, or at least pays lip service to "You don't mess around with a married person. You don't go after other people's spouses." And both H and OW will admit that she was the aggressor in this mess. Yes, yes, I know he caved; I know that he was "more wrong" than she was, but she surely bears some of the blame in this.<P>I also blame her for her continued attempts to get him back after he had made his decision to end their affair clear to her. She pulled out every trick in her bag and really laid on the guilt, playing her role as mother to his child against my inability to bear children. She really thought that getting pregnant was her trump card.<P>Anyway, just my thoughts on *our* OW.<P>MJ

MJ, how long ago was d-day? It sounds very recent. I was not stable until 6 mo. ago. It has taken me 5.5 years. That's a long time. <P>I am so sorry for your pain. H and I have no biological children together either. Yes it hurts.<P>I decided to start to live, or leave, and quit killing myself. <P>OW had one very bad fault. She loved the same man I did. H is the one who allowed her to fall in love. I believe H was in love with both of us, at the same time. [though, he will never admit it...] How can I blame OW when her only fault was loving him? H is the one who betrayed me, who made himself "available". Any man or woman, who is looking, single or married, is hungry. Why don't they tell their spouse, instead of looking elsewhere. I have found my H loves the "chase". Since I have recommitted, I am seeing old ways return. I will keep you posted.<P>OW thought having OC's with my H, would get him to leave. <P>Only you can make up your own mind. I feel your pain. I'm sorry. I guess that is why we are all on this board. <P>Now that I came to an agreement in my mind, I'm happy again. But it took 5 years of despair to come to these conclusions. <P>I love him. He can chase me the rest of my life. ember

ember, thanks for answering my question. (Yes 'our' XOW was the close personal friend variety.) <P>It's interesting about your H liking 'the chase'. It's been almost 3 years and my H only recently(!!) said he realized A was the first time he felt pursued by someone else and he liked the feeling... but he never thought about it consciously. He has said it was more a crime of opportunity at a bad time in our marriage (mind you he didn't bother telling ME it was a bad time and I went blindly along thinking we were fine...). Sigh.<P>I like what you said about actions speaking loudest. That is what helped me love my H again.<P>Congrads on your many years together!!!

Jenny, <BR>I think what you said about the pursuit is also what the allure of the A was. H was 19 when we married, and never had a date before we went out. This was one of the things ow told me in her infamous phone call to me, that he felt that he missed out on alot by not ever being with another women, hmm didn't seem to bother him until she made herself available. He said that being insecure as he was, that the attention she gave him was his ego boost. I'm sure it also helped that she was cute, 15 years younger, and non menopausal.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ember:<BR><B>H was so shocked that I had gone to see OW. It really turned everything that my H felt about her around. There was nothing left to hide. I have a feeling that if OW could do it over again, she would not have met with me. Actually, meeting OW in person, is partly what saved my marriage. I do not think my marriage would have worked, had I not known "the other side". Imagination can play on a person's mind. I hated "wondering".<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, Ember, I could have wrote that paragraph, and in fact, I did write something similar almost two years ago right here on this forum.<P>My unannounced visit to NY to meet OW was completely spontaneous. Decided on Tuesday, left Wednesday.<P>I lied to my husband one day and told him not to wait up for me as I would be meeting my bookclub downtown for dinner, cocktails and a show...I'd be late, so go to bed. He awoke the next morning, alone, wondering where the hell I was at 6 AM.<P>I called him around 7 AM and told him I was in NY and had spent six hours the previous evening on OW's back deck talking. He was stunned and flabbergasted beyond words. He kept saying in stunned disbelief, "You're incredible, absolutely amazing." Then he would start to laugh. I asked him if he were angry. Then he said, "Not at all, as long as you got what you needed." He said he was proud of me, that I had guts, and that in a strange way it made him feel special that I went to so much trouble because of him...that I must really love him. He asked if I felt I had some resolution to my feelings of insecurity and fear and anger. He asked me if I had changed my mind about us. He wondered if I would still stay with him now that I had met her and heard her side.<P>Ember, I felt much the same way you did. I Had TO MEET HER, I HAD to talk to her. I HAD to know why my husband would be with her and reject me. I knew I could not go on with the marriage unless I did this. There was nothing on this planet that was going to keep me from flying out there, but I knew it had to be covert because I would have been disuaded from going had I told my hsuband ahead of time I was planning this 'visit'. Besides, what does one have to loose at this point? I felt I deserved to do anything I wanted after what had happened to me. I felt OW owed me an explanation and insisted on answers. It was very free-ing for me. <P>It was tough to see her, too, because she was just three weeks from delivery. I could feel the tears stinging my eyes and nose and had to concentrate on her above the neck.<P>Catnip =^^=<P>

Catnip, it's good to hear from someone that thought along the same lines I did. OW has no idea how she helped my marraige. I really think, she thought I would go home and divorce H. Had my H been in the delivery room with her, on either occasion, my marriage would have been over. I'm glad she moved back to her family, where she was raised, and OC's all live far away. I do think it has to be much more difficult when the OW lives nearby. <P>I really appreciate your response, and understanding. ember