Hi All,<BR>I know it has been a while since I have written. I was very fortunate for a period of time, and was able to work on my very 1st feature film! It kept me VERY busy, and able to stop focussing on all of the CRAP at home.<P>However, I am finished with that and am back in the thick of "things". It's been hard. H and I are fighting over little stuff right now...basically very irritated with each other. Have any of you experience this after the affair? <P>As far as the OW and OC...well, lets just say we got RAPED! She makes 2/3 what my H does and she was awarded over $700.00/MONTH in CS, which began in June. That was a big pill to swallow, but I managed to do it without breaking anymore household glass items. We hoped that the OW would be SMART and realize that it would be in her BEST interest to refrain from contacting us for ANY REASON, now that she has her money. We were wrong! My H rec'd, on his truck after work, a Father's Day card from her and OC. Inside was a pic of OC and, if you can believe this, the words, "Come by and visit us, no one has to know." I could have KILLED her! H took the card back to her, putting it on HER car, with a note telling her she had a lot of nerve! He had a few other "choice" words in there, but they are not suitable for posting.<P>The newest thing we have noticed is that our other two kids have become quite defiant towards their Father. They don't take him seriously. They don't listen to him when he instructs them to do something, or when he tries to dicipline them. Has anyone else experienced this? The kids are 8 and 12.<P>I hope that you all are doing well. For the Newbies, my heart goes out to you. Everyday I say a prayer for those who are just beginning this battle, as well as those who have been in the trenches for a while. I will make a greater attempt at posting and reading more often, as I know we all need love and support to get through this Hell on Earth!<P>Love to you all!<BR>~Irish

Oh, I forgot to mention...I did get to "get away" for a weekend recently. Camping...my first time...tent, fishing, etc. I got smelly and fishy and nearly destroyed my neck and back with the sleeping arrangements, but all in all it was a great way to "escape". I'll not be making camping a regular habit, as I am FAR too vain to subject myself to it regularly. However, H and I are planning a 5 day trip in the beginning of August with a group of people on a chartered yacht thing... Waterskiing, tubing, etc. Now THAT I am looking forward to! I'll keep you posted, assuming H and I don't strangle each other before then!<P>~Irish

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fightingirish:<BR>[B]Hi All,<BR>The newest thing we have noticed is that our other two kids have become quite defiant towards their Father. They don't take him seriously. They don't listen to him when he instructs them to do something, or when he tries to dicipline them. Has anyone else experienced this? The kids are 8 and 12.<P> Do your kids know about the OC? If so the way the were told could have a lot to do with how they treat father. My oldest knows but we made sure we told her and he openly admitted his mistakes. My oldest was upset for a period but now loves daddy even more because"he has enough love for ecveryone and is being a good daddy to all of us" We are all involved with oc.<BR>

Yes, both of my children know about OW/OC. My H and I sat down and discussed it with them. My H told them that he made a HUGE mistake and intended to do everything possible to regain everyone's trust. I recognize that part of the defiance, on the 12 y/o's part, could be that this trauma happened right at the HEIGHT of her hormonal imbalances and probably one of the toughest times as a preteen...let alone having to deal with this at any time! My children have seen my anger and tears since this all happened...which in hindsight I might be more inclined to wish I had shielded them from seeing. My kids are fiercely defensive about me...my feelings. Very protective.<P>There are some things that I would change about the events after I learned of A/OW/OC...but all I can do now is work on the healing process for all involved! Keep my children in your prayers! <P>~Irish

Dear Irish,<P>hey it is great to hear from you. Feature Film? Like as in acting? That ow has some nerve. Ugh. I will be praying for your kiddos. Although I think it is kinda sweet that they are protective of you. I am sure it must be hard to watch them dealing with such a treachery. Keep up the good fight.<BR>Irritaion? Irritated? Me? Never! Oh wait, except maybe when I wake up and he has thrown his clothes on the floor, or when I go to the kitchen to get breakfast for our D and the trash is STILL there, or when he has pparently downloaded some half naked women as a screensaver! I just got kicked off the net and someone came to the door. The screensaver came on and Ill be you-know-what! THere is some half naked woman on my computer!! Oh Yes ! The irritation continues....<BR>Love<BR>bw<BR>Love and Prayers,<P>bw

Dear Irish,<P>Minor irritation with H? Oh yes, I know all about that. Like Brokenwings said - small things used to make me crazy. My H would say he would take care of the dinner dishes only to have me wake in the morning and the dishes are in the sink. Or, he would come in from work and play couch commando in front of the t.v. all night. <P>I would look at this man and say to myself "Let the OW have him -- she deserves him." I imagined that when he was with the OW he was charming, witty, a brilliant conversationalist only to come home to me and veg out in front of the TV. <P>But that was before I really forgave him for what he had done. My resentment and anger was still smoldering on a very deep level without me being consciously aware of it. Forgiveness will come but it takes a long time. For me it took years to really give him my heart again openly and honestly. But, it was well worth the wait. I believe that we have reached a new level of understanding and our marriage, although different, I must say is better.<P>Don't sweat the little things, Irish, and remember they are ALL little things. Surviving one day at a time quickly turns back into living.<P>love,<BR>heavenly<P>P.S. - By the way, I read in another post that your H is a police officer - something we have in common, mine is too. Maybe some of it was stress on the job? <BR>

Hi Fighting Irish,<BR>How nice to hear from you again.<P>I know what you mean about your children. It's like a sixth sense they have in protecting us. It's like you guys have your own club and H can't join no matter what.<BR>As she grows older she will adjust I hope. It has to be awful. I really never thought seriously about that until recently. I guess I was mostly thinking from a bs point of view. These kids have been put through a lot.<P>I can't believe the cs amount most of you pay. We will find out the nut my H has to crack soon enough.<P>As for ow in your case...it seems typical all around this board. It must be a personality disorder eh? heh heh<P>I too get nuts when ow communicates by mail. Our attorney sent her attorney a letter saying ALL COMMUNICATION MUST CEASE IMMEDIATLY! And so far it's worked! HA!!! <P>Bless you FI. Glad to hear from you.<BR>Love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

fightinI,<BR>In light of how bad counselor's are sounding on Tina's thread, I hesitate to say this, but have you tried having the kids talk to a (good) counselor? Maybe a neutral third party with a good head on their shoulders (a relative?) could get the kids to tell them what's bothering them so you can get to the heart of it. Maybe the kids wouldn't want to "burden" you with their negative feelings, or maybe they are waiting to see if you will stick up for Dad despite his horrible mistakes. It's good to be on the same page.<P>Just a thought.<BR>Best wishes!<BR>J

[QUOTE]Originally posted by broken_wings:<BR>[B]Dear Irish,<P>"Feature Film? Like as in acting?..."<BR>Yes, Broken Wings, as in acting. The movie will be on HBO in November. It is called, "The Laramie Project", based on the aftermath of the death of Matthew Shepherd. It was a life-savor for me, this project was. It is just so unfortunate that it is having to be made, in light of a terrible incident!<P><BR>"Irritaion? Irritated? Me? Never! Oh wait, except maybe when I wake up and he has thrown his clothes on the floor, or when I go to the kitchen to get breakfast for our D and the trash is STILL there..."<P>OH MY GOODNESS!? Is this something that is or has happened to all of us during this crap??? My H does the SAME THING! I say, "There are clothes in the washer, please just put them in the dryer. I'll fold them and whatever later." I get busy, don't pay attention for a day or two and when I go down to retrieve the (yes, very wrinkled clothes, but I've been busy!) THEY ARE STILL IN THE WASHER AND I HAVE TO RE-WASH THEM B/C THEY STINKKKKKKKK! The same goes for any other errand or chore that I request a little bit of help with. I even get, "I promise..." and it STILL doesn't get done. Then we enter this cycle called, "You treat me like a child!" Oh my, how many times have I heard that in the past few months! My response, although I have been told that it makes the situation worse is, "Then stop ACTING like a child!" Of course, there's more to this story in regards to that part of the situation! <P>All I can do right now is :::::!<P>Thank you for your posts! Keep 'um coming!<BR>~Irish<P>

Fighting, Good to hear from you again. I would think h would have to earn the respect back from the kids just as he does from you. I always felt as if my h betrayed the whole family when he did this. Our child knows nothing about any of this, but I think all the h are going to have to face the music one day sooner or later as far as the kids and how this is going to make them feel about there fathers.<BR> One thing where things just might be somewhat equal here is so is the ow when her kid grows up and finds out that momma was screwing a married man and created them.<BR> I wonder what hubby would think if he found his cloths wet and stinky in his drawer one day might make the memory improve. with love flowerseed

Ha ha ha....that last sentence was great, Flowerseed! Oh my! Yes, the issue with the kids, whether told now or later, is serious. To a small degree I have softened where the OC is concerned in that I sympathize with the fact that someday he will have to come to terms with the manner in which he was conceived. I anticipate that his mother will instill a large amount of hate in him towards my H. That is a bridge we will have to cross when we get to it. However, the "here and now" is MY KIDS. They are very bitter about the addition of a sibling that has caused pain to their mother. They have lost a lot of security and trust as well...and someday I hope my H will remove the "fog" from his head and actually take a look at the deeper damage that has been done.<P>~Irish

Once upon a time, a young bride buzzed through her house and cleaned every nook and cranny. She was so proud of herself...she even manged to cook a fairly decent meal of grilled cheese and chicken soup without ruining it.<P>It had been an exhausting day and she forgot the load of clothes in her washer. The following day it slipped her mind as well. On day three, her new husband asked her if there were any clean tee shirts. She dashed downstairs and opened the washer and promptly threw her husband's underwear into the dryer. And hour later she folded the laundry and placed it in his drawer.<P>The next day was a hot one...one of those 90 degree in the shade days with the dew point off the charts. Husband goes to work and begins working on the machinery. By mid-morning, everyone on the crew was ringing wet with perspiration. He caught a whiff of something extremely foul and turned and looked at his coworker with disdain. He was nauseated by the stench and moved to another area of the yard. He noticed the other guys smelled the same way and thought he worked with the foulest of crews.<P>He walked up to his supervisor who quickly backed away. Husband stopped dead in his tracks and looked around him and saw he was standing alone. "Oh my God, it's me!"<P>To this day, my husband still tells this lame story of what he calls his 'Scratch and Sniff' tee shirts.<P>I learned that first year to immediately move the laundry to the dryer or to re-wash the load...which I hate to admit, I have had to do many, many times.<P>Dontcha just hate doing laundry? I wish I had two or three sets of washers and dryers like a laudromat so I could get it done all at one and be done with it.<P>Catnip =^^=<P>

My grown children do not know of the OC. My husband and I both dread when and if they ever find out.<P>Our daughter is so moral and has so much integrity and character, she would be forever disappointed and would never ever look at her dad the same way again. It would break her heart and his. Besides, she's the jealous type and wouldn't like it if she knew there was another 'daughter' out there somewhere...she likes being the only one.<P>My oldest son would despise my husband and probably would never speak to him again and run roughshod on me to leave him if he ever found out. He nor my middle son would certainly never ever respect him again, and just knowing Dad had a 'fling' three years ago diminished him in their eyes as is. The ONLY thing that redeems my husband in their eyes is that he has been under a lot of psychiatric care, diagnosed as bipolar and is an alcoholic struggling to regain his sobriety, and use his illness as an excuse for whay he did what he did. <P>All three of my kids are pretty judgmental and have a lot of integrity, which is kind of incredible as we are a blended family and had a lot of issues. You'd think with everything our family went through prior to Dad's fling they would be more accepting, but I know them and they wouldn't be.<P>Something with so much fallout that impacts the marriage forever is so incredibly traumatic to children, be they still at home or grown and gone, that once something like this comes out, no one ever looks at the WS the same way again. It is so sad the WS looses so much by doing what they did, but what they did truly was the most horrible thing that can ever happen in a marriage, and to a family, bar none.<P>Just my opinion<P>Catnip =^^=

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Something with so much fallout that impacts the marriage forever is so incredibly traumatic to children, be they still at home or grown and gone, that once something like this comes out, no one ever looks at the WS the same way again. It is so sad the WS looses so much by doing what they did, but what they did truly was the most horrible thing that can ever happen in a marriage, and to a family, bar none.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So true Catnip. For one thing my son is a little jealous H has another boy. Do you think it was god teaching him to share?(you know how it's said onlies never learn to share?)<BR>In our case my H told our son 1st what he had done. My son knew for 4 days before I found out. How horrible is that? Then our son knew H was going to tell me on Monday. He called me from work to see if Mom was ok. I said yes, I'll be fine. I was in shock! I wasn't fine!<P>It was all out before H and I could decide what to do.<P>Plus ow lives 1/2 mile from us and is a lunatic...she tells everyone who the daddy is. My bankers know...my grocers know..my local deli knows...my church knows....now how can I hide from it?<P>I just accepted things with the grace of God. HE has bestowed me with that. If I feel I'm going to falter I pray harder and HE comes through for me.<P>It is truly the worst thing to happen to a marriage.<P>Then again I look at the 3 firemen killed on Fathers day and the families they left behind. I am thankful it wasn't death I had to face. I am happy God gave me another chance to be with H. You know?<P>love<BR>Debi<P><P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Catnip, how old is your daughter? Mine is 21 and she does know. Telling her was one of the hardest things we had to do. Like your daughter she is very responsible and moral. She has lost all respect for her father, who she used to think was the greatest man on earth. Right now we are planning her wedding and she has told me that she will not have him walk her down the aisle. It is heartbreaking. <BR>Gemini, I hope that I can in the future have your positive and forgiving attitude. My ow also lives just down the street, and the 3 year old is now beginning to understand that she does have a daddy.

Oh, Tina, when I read that your daughter does not want her father to walk her down the aisle it almost broke my heart.<P>I remember when I was 21. I was so idealistic about life and love. You never believe that things can go so wrong, or that one day you would be dealing with an OC. Such things are for other people -- those who are not as smart, or as good looking, or as anything as you.<P>You see the world through rose-colored glasses and that is exactly as it should be at 21. Your daughter has had to grow up and lose an innocence that she should have been able to hold onto for awhile -- not forever -- but a while longer.<P>I believe that the OW/OC issue just makes us face real life. In real life people make mistakes -- sometimes dreadful ones -- that cause others pain and grief. In particular, as girls, we had and still have an idealized view of our dads. In our eyes they are heroes, perfect in every way. <P>It was difficult for me to come to the realization that my H is not a super-man, he is a man, no more and no less. He has weaknesses, frailties, bad judgement sometimes, but that does not change his love for his family, particularly our children.<P>Now that my H and I are communicating on a much better level, he has told me that while he would like to make sure that the OC grows up with all that she needs, he does not and could never feel about her the same way that he feels about our children. There is something to be said about bonding and living with your children every day of their life. <P>Making babies is just biological. Being a father is the magic that develops from being greeted by your child's bright eyes every morning and kissing that sweet face good night every night.<P>I hope you can make your daughter understand that nothing can ever change the bond that she shares with her dad. I hope she won't let her anger and disappointment stand in the way of one of the happiest moments in her life. <P>I speak with some authority here. I allowed thoughts of the OC to ruin the birth of my daughter. I had just found out and I felt that our daughter's birth was no longer special because my H had a D with someone else. Looking back on it now with the time and distance that allows healing, it was the biggest mistake of my life and I would give anything to turn back time. Don't let your D make the same mistake. One day she will forgive her dad, just as you will. I hope she will have those happy photos to comfort her when she does.<P>love,<BR>heavenly