Tigger,<P>This is addressed to you because I’m hoping you can help me with a really heartbreaking problem. I’ve come to this board off and on to get insight and help me cope with a really difficult situation. I had thought that MM was the worst of my problems. Now I have to deal with something so shattering that I don’t know how to cope. BF and I have had a really rocky road. We’ve known each other since we were children and have been off and on over many years. We love each other very much, but have always had obstacles in our path. I have come so far in the last 5 years and finally got myself to where I needed to be in order to be with him. When I got pregnant and had OC. BF and I were not together. After talking things through with BF, I was able to admit that I had turned to MM out of desperation to put BF out of my life and that I never truly loved MM. MM was a phenomenal mistake that resulted in OC. BF and I talked for months about getting back together and about OC. He never faltered when it came to reassuring me that he harbored no hard feelings and could accept Jonas. Now he’s telling me he can’t. He said that he thought he could, but he’s finding that he resents Jonas for being here and the child we could have had isn’t. You see, we could have had a child together 4 years ago, but I lost it. He never blamed me and tried to be there for me, even though it was hard for him. He had lost a daughter, 5 years earlier, to SIDS. He wants children so badly. Each time that he’s been given the hope and possibility of a child, it’s been taken away. Now that I have Jonas, he thinks of the child that we lost and he resents that I was able to have MM’s child but not his. He feels like his child, one that was created out of love, was passed up and forgotten. He believes that these are feelings he can’t get over. I’ve tried telling him that it’s too soon to make that call and I’ve begged him to not give up so soon, but he wants me to tell him HOW he can get over this. He doesn’t want Jonas to grow up feeling the resentment…which I understand. He’s afraid of investing another 5, 10, 15 years only to find that he’s not getting over it. He keeps telling me that he DOES love me, but he doesn’t think he can get past this. Which translates to him that there is no hope for us. I am so angry, frustrated and so hurt. I don’t blame him for feeling the way he does, but I can’t stop blaming him for not even trying. He’s so afraid of not knowing what might happen, that he would rather just give it all up. After the loss of the baby, we struggled for 4 years to get where we’re at…to be able to promise each other a future together and commit to our love. Now he’s running away because he’s afraid. He has become the coward I once was. It used to be me that was always running away from him out of fear. I was always afraid that he was too good to be true. I was always afraid that he didn’t love me the way he said he did. I was always afraid that I would lose him. So I always ran. I could never commit myself to him 100%. I always held back. He wanted and needed to know I loved him, and I always withdrew from him. Now that I’ve gotten myself to where I can honestly tell him how I feel and show him how I feel and make the commitment he always wanted from me, he’s the one backing away. I don’t know what to do or how to cope with this. He has presented me with the one problem that I can’t really fix. The two loves of my life and I’m losing one because of the other. How did you and H do it? How does anyone do it? I have no answers for BF. I’m at a total loss. He’s asking me to show him the way to get through what he’s feeling and I don’t know how.<BR>

Ohbratti1,<P>Unfortunately, I'm in a situation very similar to the one you explain. The only difference is that I'm on the other side of it. My BF got his ex-wife and I pregnant within 2 months of each other. Now he has a 7 1/2 month old and a 5 month old. I'm in the same position that your BF is in. I don't know how I can accept a child that is a constant reminder of his unfaithfulness to me. Your BF might view Jonas as a reminder of the time in his life that you chose to be with someone else instead of him. I wish I could tell you that there was something you could say or do that would give your BF reassurance. All I know is that there is nothing my BF can say or do that will take away how he feels in his own heart. He has chosen to have a minimal relationship with the OC (he only sees her when picking up or dropping off his other daughter) but he recently told me through tears that he feels guilty and would like to spend more time with her. I wish I could tell him that I was ok with that. It eats me alive to know that his loyalties will now be divided between our child and the child he had as a result of cheating on me. But I also know that if he doesn't follow his heart, he will always blame me in the longrun. There are no guarantees, but maybe if you let him go and do whatever it is that he feels he needs to do, he'll come back. He will miss you and Jonas enough to realize that it's an obstacle he CAN and WILL overcome. On your part, sometimes the least said is the easiest mended. <P>Keep me posted.<P>------------------<BR>

Dear OB1,<P>Well, I'm not sure exactly what to tell you at this point. I do have a few questions to help me with where to go in helping you. I remember when you first got back together with BF, but I can't remember all the details. Are you both living together? How much time has he spent with you and Jonas? Is he a christian?<P>For right now, this is what I can tell you. H and I had a very rough time dealing with Abbi's parentage while I was pregnant. I still worry about it some, but not in regards to H's acceptance of Abbi. You know that my worst fear is OM finding out. While I was pregnant, we both decided to give the situation completely to God to deal with as He saw fit. Since Abbi was born, it is just like our other 2 children. There is no anger or resentment towards her at all! Of course, the difference with our situations is that H was there for the pregnancy and birth. That really does make a difference, just like we tell the newbies whose OW are still pregnant, being there during the pregnancy and birth are more to support the OW, not the OC. But, there is a bonding in your heart with the child if you are there from it's first breath of life. Please, don't anyone else take that to mean that I think the H's should be there for the birth of the OC, cause I still don't think that would be in the best intrest of the marriage! <P>I think what you and your BF need to do is earnestly pray to God about this. I know that it would be hard to do, but if you two aren't meant to be together, that God has someone else out there for you, you shouldn't continue the relationship. It's a tough situation to be in, but if it is meant to be, and you are both willing to work on it, he should be able to accept Jonas, and work on the relationship from there. One thing for sure, don't try to get pregnant to give him his own baby just to keep him. You both need to work on your relationship towards eachother before anyone else joins in the picture. And yes, that relationship includes Jonas. <P>Maybe find out what he is feeling now, in relation to how he was feeling when you got back together.<P>I wish I had more advice. Maybe I will think of something else soon.<P>I will pray for you guys.<P>Love,<P>Tigger

Snshne620,<P>I have a couple questions for you. First of all, welcome to the board.<P>Now, my questions are, when he got his XW pregnant, where they divorced yet? How long had the two of you been seeing eachother? <P>Just to give us some insight as to your situation.<P>Tigger

Tigger and all,<P>The OM had left his W several times before we met. He left her in Aug. filed for D, went back in Nov., we met in Jan., he moved out in April, got her pregnant in May, I got pregnant in June, his D was final in July. While I was pregnant, he left me in Nov. until Jan. because of the guilt that we both had because I was still married. During that time, he went back to his ex in an effort to try to make things work. His daughter with XW was born in Dec. OM realized I was who he truly wanted and he came back to me in Jan. <P>For the whole story, see my post in General Questions II. I'm looking for all the help I can get. That explains most of it. Hope it helps.<P>------------------<BR>

OB1-<BR> I sort of know what you are feeling, I had MM child. My H and I have been M for 4 years in Aug. I had a paternity test done to find out who the father was, it turned out our D was OM's. I am struggling with the fact that since we all know this what lies in store for me, my D, my H and OP. I don't know how things will trun out. I don't know if my M will be able to survive my betrayal, I don't know my H, although he says he will and always will love our D, but if our M didn't make it would he still feel the same. I know that if we turned out not to make it and he still wanted D in his life, it is more than welcomed, but if I could see into the future and know for sure what his feelings were going to do, I would feel more comfortable. If I though for a second that he would turn his back on her and walk away, I would leave now. I would not want to put him or her through that. She deserves to grow up knowing she was wanted and loved and not just put up with. I love my H with all my heart, but like I told him, I love you with everything I am, but not enough to have our children grow up in a home where they would be sad and feeling hated. I know my D is a reminder of what I did, I am sorry for that, but that doesn't mean I love her anyless. I love my children more than that. I think if your BF is having a hard time accepting Jonas, than I think you need to let him go. In my opinion, since he has said it outloud, he has thought about it. For me, if you say it, it's true. I am not totally familiar w/ your story, but I do understand what your feeling. You love two people, you fear losing one of them b/c of the other, I look at it as, who do you love more? Honestly, who would you die for? More importantly, who would you live for? Me, if I had to choose,I choose my children.

Tigger, just a ?.<BR>Do you know for sure Abbi is OM's or are you just ?ing.<BR>I remember sailorman asking about blood types, I hope it helped him, I responded. I know of a place where you can get a DNA screening done, it is the same as the test but it costs less and not court legal. That's why it is so cheap. It is only $320.00 and it is just a swab test. If you want the info I can give it to you. This is how I found out with Hannah and it only takes 5 days to get the results. Let me know!

Dear MB,<P>Well, H had a V about 7 years ago. There is that VERY slim possibility that it could be H's, but I doubt it. It was helpfull, all the advice we received about websites and such. At this time, the only reason we would want to know is if H's V has reversed it's self, to keep from getting P again. The easiest way to determine that is to have H just go get tested. It won't matter either way, as far as feelings, if Abbi is not H's blood D, cause she is his no matter what! I will keep in mind that you could help out with the place to go for testing if it does come to that. Thanks a lot! <P>Love,<P>Tigger

I didn't know he had a V. Still there is a chance! You can always pray. How would you feel if you found out Abbi was his? I have played that in my head over and over, what if they were wrong and such. Unlikily, she looks just like the jerk. We are poss. going to move to another state so we can be FAR FAR away from them. I hope it will help in our recovery!

Tigger,<P>Thank you for the reply. I feel so lost right now. I usually have answers and/or know how to deal with difficult situations, but I don’t know how to deal with this. If I had known that being around Jonas would cause BF this kind of turmoil and pain, I would have never moved forward with him. The last thing I wanted to do was cause him more pain. We are not living together and will not be seeing each other for awhile, if at all. I haven’t given up. I told him that I had committed myself to this, and I meant it. Before we can go anywhere with this, though, he needs to decide if he’s willing to invest the time and the love that is needed to get us through. Right now he doesn’t believe he can get past his feelings and therefore believes there is no point in taking the relationship any further. He wants me to give him hope and the guarantee that everything will be fine. Then he wants me to tell him exactly how it’s going to happen. He has been slowly withdrawing from me over the last 2-3 weeks. He’s shutting me out because he’s afraid. I’ve tried talking with him until I break down with frustration. I decided yesterday, to back off for awhile. He wants to be able to call and chit chat about day to day things, but when it comes to the nitty gritty, he clams up. I told him I couldn’t keep doing that. I know it’s hard for him, but it’s hard for me too. Hearing him talking and feeling him close me off is too hard for me to deal with right now. I know he needs time to think and come to a decision. I don’t think that calling me is helping him at all. We always end up in the same place. I feel cheated and he ends up feeling confused about why I’m upset. He’s so skeptical about his feelings for Jonas changing. I’m praying that it’s just his pain and fear that are preventing him from seeing the possibilities. I don’t know if backing away and leaving him alone is the right thing to do. I’m flying blind here. I’m afraid that he will just let things ride because it’s the easy way out. I was so dedicated to this, and I wanted the same from him. I know I shouldn’t push, but it’s so hard to not pick up the phone and call him. I’m so used to his presence and his voice. He has always been a part of my life. I don’t know where to go from here. I’ve made many bad choices in my life. I’m afraid of making another bad choice and handling this wrong. I know that talking didn’t work because he wasn’t open to it, yet. What if, by backing off, it just makes it easier for him to pull away until he’s gone from me completely? I know he loves me, I just don’t know if he loves me enough to fight for this. What if he decides there is no longer a reason to stay and moves away again? I really don't want to lose him...not after we've come so far.<BR>

Dear OB1,<P>Well, maybe your sorta "PlanB" is just what he needs. It will give him time to think about your relationship, and what it truly means to him. Even though you guys aren't married, I think that that books and workbook is a good idea to go through. You could use it as a "tool" to help eachother understand what the other is going through, emotionally. I think that if you can both at least read the books, if your relationship is meant to be, he will see the light and come around. I know it's tough when you just want to be together, and get on with your life, but he needs to be sure. Otherwise, you will end up divorced and even more miserable! Maybe even tell him that it hurts you too much to "chit chat" about the everyday things, but not how you both truly feel. I don't know if this is of any help. I hope it is.<P>Love,<P>Tigger

I really hope that backing away is the right thing. I just hope he doesn’t interpret it as me cutting and running…again. I told him that I still wanted him and everything I had promised to him. I told him that I still wanted to try, and try, and try. I told him that I would not be the one to give up…not this time. I let him know that if our relationship ended, it would be because it was what he wanted, because he was the one afraid to try. I let him know that I still wanted him in my life, but not like this. He is more than just a friend to me. I can’t go through with him being friendly as a way to stay connected to me, when all that does is cause more pain. Basically, I let him know that, when/if he was ready to make the same commitment and not give up out of fear, I would be here. Until that day comes, I’m of no use to him and would rather he stayed away until he was sure of what he wanted. I’m scared to death that he’ll decide to stay away for good. You wanna talk about insecure personified. Right now there is nothing to hold him to me except love. You would think that love would count for a lot, but not when you’re running scared. I know that because I’ve done it to him.

OB1,<P>I don't usually post here and certainly don't have any experience with your situation. Have I inspired a lot of confidence yet? <P>BUT, I feel the need to make a few comments. The first is that I feel it is a mistake for you to back away. I think it is a mistake for you to press the relationship further than he wants right now. I think it is a mistake for you to feel that he is chickening out or "afraid".<P>You said: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> He has always been a part of my life. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not really. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I don’t know where to go from here. I’ve made many bad choices in my life. I’m afraid of making another bad choice and handling this wrong. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You see you are feeling like he is.<P>Before I get back to my opening statements, consider this. He did lose a child to SIDS. You did miscarry his child. Do you suppose that right now Jonas reminds him of what he lost. I realize that it isn't Jonas' fault and so does your BF. But besides the lost children, you pulled away from him and had the affair with OM and had his child.<P>Now I haven't said anything you don't know and appreciate have I? But, just for a second consider that your BF may have serious doubts about what kind of father he would be. What if all of the children in his life die? Not reality but look at the data he is dealing with.<P>Look at how you have pulled away from him in the past. If he were to marry you and then you pull away again, he will lose yet another child, Jonas, and perhaps more if other children come from the marriage. He is facing making a choice and he doesn't have a lot confidence in himself (you obviously weren't that swayed by him before) nor you.<P>This is the time for him to voice concerns. Face his demons,and talk. So who should he talk to? My opinion is you. Yeah, at first it will just be light hearted, small talk. But if you hang with him on this he may do two things. 1. Bond with Jonas especially as Jonas gets older.<BR>2. He may gain confidence that you are definitely here for the long run.<P>So I say don't pull away. I also think it is a mistake to assume that all of his fears are from Jonas' presence. You are seeing projected into this situation a lot of baggage from the past. Work through it.<P>The one thing you have going for you unlike many of the male posters here, is that you didn't have Jonas while married to your BF. That my dear girl is a really hard thing to swallow. <P>So OB1, talk with him, be his friend, have him around Jonas, and know that as Jonas gets older, walks, talks, and matures, most men bond better. Cute babies don't compare with a kid you can play catch with. Spoken as a man who knows. <P>Take care and God Bless,<P>JL

Dear Ohbratti,<P>I don't usually give unsolicited advice and I don't like to break into other people's threads but I was very moved by your story and wanted to point something out to you.<P>Many of us on the forum are in your same situation, only in reverse. When my H got involved with the OW and she gave birth to the OC, I had been trying desperately to have a child. I had multiple miscarriages and it seemed as though we would never have a child together. Your BF is basically experiencing the same pain of having and losing two children.<P>When I found out that an OW had given birth to my H's child so quickly and without any difficulty it sent me into a serious depression. You begin to question your own self-worth and you convince yourself that you are completely inadequate as a person and a woman. Since men already have a much more macho air, it must be even worse for a man to come to terms with the fact that he has failed twice at fatherhood.<P>You are blessed because at least your BF is in touch with what he is feeling and he has brought this issue to you honestly. The two things that helped me get through this period in my life were - counselling and constant reassurance from my H that he saw the OC completely separate from the mistake that he made by having an A. It took him a while to convince me that he had no emotional attachment to the OW because of the child.<P>But, I caution you, it took a couple years for me to get over the feelings of inadequacy and jealousy over the fact that he had a child with someone else. <P>It would be wonderful if the two of you could go for counselling - it does really help to have someone guide you through these really traumatic feelings.<P>I know it must be difficult for you, but continue to be understanding about the situation and to offer support to your BF. I am sure that he loves you, he is just overwhelmed right now by feelings that he can't control.<P>Good luck to all of you. My prayers are with you.<BR>love,<BR>heavenly

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He wants me to give him hope and the guarantee that everything will be fine. Then he wants me to tell him exactly how it’s going to happen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>First of all life holds no guarantees. That doesn't mean that you can't tell him how it will happen.<BR>Give it your best OB1....have dinner w/o Jonas around. Perhaps an early dinner. Relax. Tell him what you've told us. Your fears. Tell him he's not the only one with fears. If you don't TRY this relationship you'll never know what could have been. Let him know that you are the best thing that could happen in his life. That you will love him like no other can because you have learned an important life lesson and being with him is all you ever wanted.<P>Leave the Jonas issue aside for now. He'll bond w/o interference and discussion. You guys are putting the what if's ahead of the what can be.<BR>Promises?<P>How about all the love you can give...having children may or may not be ahead. You can have fun trying. God may give you two another gift of a child. Who knows?<P>Just be honest and not pushy. Give him time to think. God will show you the way to walk sweet woman. I will pray you have peace in your life. I wish you the best. Let us know ok?<BR>love<BR>Debi<P>ps It's hard not to fall in love with a child. They are so full of wonder and excitement. It will happen I think if you give him time. <P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

JL, Heavenly, and Gem<P>Thank you so much for the insight and words of encouragement. I just wish there was more I could do. I hate that he's going through this. I feel so helpless. His feelings are his own and it would be unfair of me to devalue them. Maybe he needs to feel all that he’s going through right now. Maybe he needs a little mourning period before we can move forward. This is going to make us or break us. He needs to know that there is hope, but I can’t make him believe that. He needs to come to that conclusion on his own in order for it to be of any use. I’m just praying that he will actually take the time to think and not just bury his feelings.<BR>