Just what I need more stress. I received a letter from ow on Saturday. I do not understand why she won't give up already, she's demanding that my h and my children to have contact with oc. I have not contact ow regarding this letter. I am suppose to forgive and forget after she has made my life a impossible since DD.<P>I am one of those ladies in this forum that can't accept oc. She has some nerve making demands, she choose to be in this position, to have a child by a married man, she could have had an abortion, she don't believe in abortion according to H,or why not give the child for adoption to be raise in a two parent household. Ow is very good with threats, and emotional blackmailing.<P>I will type ow exact words, to find out what you ladies think of this letter. <P>This situation has gone on long enough. I'm so very tired of this back and forth because I'm not with your H and will never be. The question is now whether or not everyone is going to be mature enough to admit the fact that my son has a father and it's your H. Trust me I'll tap in to his account 17% for the next 20 years, he'll pay half of his education, medical,etc. but that's not what I'm talking about. I have a lawyer that I've already paid to handle that(this lawyer she met him at Lamaze Classes).<P>I think you have to just open you eyes as a woman, realize that the man you love, has a son who has already lost almost 1 year of knowing his father. (She chose to be in this postition). I'm so out of your lives, and I walked out in November, (big lie H ended the relation). The point is that your children deserve to know their half-brother. My son deserves to know his dad, his blood relatives and not have any more of this madness in his life. <P>I am moving out of NY to get away from these demons and all of this bad blood.(If she's moving I will have to see it to belive it). This has been the most difficult time of my life and I never asked for one minute of it whether you belive it or not.(Ow knew from the begining that h was married with children,in fact she new my name, our children date of birth and ages,knew which catholic school my children attended). I fortunately have the financial means to start a new life. I cannot wait. A house, car, pool, daycare, no subways, ocean view, it's such a better life for us, but with that said, I don't get to decide who my son's dad is and if he gets to know him or not. It's against nature. I'll be here until August 15 or so. <BR>(If She's so financially stable, why is she asking for more child support, H has a court date for August 9.<P>You need to sort through this mess, but don't balme or blame if it makes you feel better, but don't take it out on helpless infant. Have a heart and be a decent human being. As a mother you should truly understand.<BR>

mina,<BR> The way I look at it the ow has no rights to your family she never did have. If she thinks just because she has a child born of deciet, lies and betrayel that gives her rights she needs to be the one to put the blame were it belongs with herself. I will never understand how these so called women come to think the way they do. We have nothing to do with the ow or her child she gets the money thats all she will ever get. I think if I got a letter like that I would have told the ow that she had the right to abort or give the child up to somebody that wanted to be its mom and dad that she has no rights to bother either one of you or your children. I think I would have to ask what makes her think that what she feels her child needs should come above you or your children and that if she were any type of a human being she would understand your feelings as a wife to your h one thing she will never be. I think I would also have to say to her as a human being and a mother you would never create a child to be put into this world in such a decusting way in the first place. So sorry that you are dealing with one that just dosent get it. with love flowerseed

Mina,<P>You know what bothers me most about her letter? I truly despise when someone does something so very, very wrong, but *expects* other people to do the right thing to make life easier for them. She's asking YOU to do something she, herself, could not do. In itself, that is enough to make my blood boil and my head spin.<P>Let me ask you this, though, Mina, if she were TRULY interested in her child knowing his/her father, why would she move out of state? Does she realize 1) your husband can fight the move and it's very possible she will not be able to move out of the state or even out of the same county? 2) that your husband can say "Yes, you can move" and the court allow it, but she will have to pay whatever traveling expenses YOUR family or the child incurs during visitation? 3) Does she realize how hypocritical she is by saying "Have a heart. Be a good human being" when she, herself, is not? 4) that there are step-parenting laws available as well as third party rights available so you can truly make this more difficult than she ever imagined? <P>Mina, if you haven't done so already, I would contact an attorney, file for legal seperation against your husband, file child support for your kids and alimony for yourself. You don't have to divoce, you don't have to even live in different houses. Then, have your husband go back to court to get his case with her re-evaluated.<P>Take care of yourself,<BR>CoR <BR>

YEA, everything they said...and THE NERVE!!!!!<P>Hello..You did not want to be placed in this situation, nor did you have a choice....WELL GUESS WHAT ???? SHE CHOSE TO BE IN THIS SITUATION...AND SHE CAN LIVE WITH IT AND SO CAN HER SON. this is what you and your H decided to do based on what is best for your family. She needs to get on with it...and YOU MINA, need a restraining order...take the letter down to the police, and file one NOW...she wil not be allowed to contact you in anyway, shape or form....unless she looks good in prison greys (maybe in NY they have Blues??)...I cant handle these posts, is it the lunar alignment lately with these OW??? I cant believe the crap going on...debs with the church announcement, then embers with the name change...and now yours with this wanta be pen pals JUNK...they need to get a life...their own life...JMHO..MC

Mina,<BR>I too received letters from ow saying almost exactly what your ow wrote. I wish I could get their mindset on these things. I just can't. I believe they think they are entitled to having a Dad for their kid. Just because they say so. Whacked out is all I can say....huh?<P>Follow cor's advice. Best wishes and prayers.<BR>love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Awe crap. The more I think about what she wrote, the more ticked off I make myself. <P>You know, Mina, I, like the others, can't figure out what this woman actually wants. I mean, she basically says "I don't want involvement with your husband!" As if this matters now. As if this is something she you should be happy about?!?! Sorry, but happiness comes from not starting it in the first place, even happier when an other woman doesn't get pregnant. <P>And who is she to tell you to inform your children about their half sibling. She has NO right to do that. Granted, maybe in time this will be good (who knows), but it's on YOUR time line, not hers, not her childs, not anybody else. It's your decision. Maybe your children don't want to meet this half sibling. Maybe in time, they still won't. Again, it's their choice, not this other woman's. Don't your children have the same "right" to not know as her child has a right TO know? <P>And how are YOU supposed to make your husband have contact? Even if YOU wanted it, how are you supposed to say to him "You must do this!" without it making your marriage tumble to the ground. You know, another thing which irratates me is someone sleeps with a married man because he lacks morals and intergrity, yet when it suits the OTHER person, they want the married person to suddently grow morals and integrity. Now why is this? At one time, they were grateful this man didn't have enough to say "No" and now, they suddenly want him to be some upstanding person?!? <P>Trust me, I believe people change. One mistake, two mistakes, three mistakes don't make a person whole. However, to do wrong and expect everybody else to CHANGE except yourself is just bullcrap in my world. I will never ever understand. <P>Sorry.. just venting. <P>Love,<BR>CoR

I know I'll catch hell here, but a big part of me agrees with her and I struggle with it everyday. I look at it like this - if your husband (and mine) could find a way to make the conscious choice to have an affair, to lie to you and to OW (doesn't make the affair ok, but you KNOW they have lied to OW also) to create a child, can't they find a way to be a father to the child. I mean, does it really matter whose fault it is that child is here - it is the fault of H and OW equally. We seem to focus on that the child was born of lies and dishonesty, well so what? Should the child suffer because of it? I know my H is only staying away from OC because of me, but I have been soul searching and I have come to the conclusion that I don't want a man who isn't a father to his children. How does his not being a father show loyalty to me? He already betrayed me, whether we can repair that has nothing to do with being a father to an ainnocent child. You know, we talk about how OW knew what she was getting into, well guess what? So did our husbands and no one made them do it but them.<BR>I don't know when I will want to be a part of OC's life, but I sure as heck and not going to discourage my H from being the father he is obligated to be. And truthfully, if he chooses not to, I will really question what kind of a man he is. Honestly ladies, is it just that you are threatned that he'll resume a relationship with OW if he has contact with OC? If that's the issue, you clearly have marital issues to work on. I don't mean to come off harsh, but when I look at my own innocent children, I see that OC is no different and deserves love. These children should not suffer because of the CONSCIOUS selfishness of our H and OW. And before someone says that they didn't have a say in getting pregnant, we all know the ONLY sure way not to get pregnant is not to have sex!!! They took the risk willingly.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bonniebb:<BR> i am sure i will catch flack also but i agree with Bonnie b. For me, and only me i speak for no one elase, I could never love or RESPECT my hubby if he walked away from any of his children. it took me over a year to realize it but i have. In MY eyes, again I only speak for myself, a man is NOT A MAN unless he is a good father and that means a father to all his children. i know each situation is different and some bs can not stayed married if there is involvment and that is fine for them but i could not have stayed married if there wasn't involvment.

Now I'm the opposite althought mine choose no involvement. I think I would have had no respect for my h if he would have choose involvement. He is a wonderful father to our child, he only considers himself to have one child. I can also promise you he never in a millon wanted to have a child with this thing, yes he did choose to cheat very dumb mistake. I cant see to many men actually wanting the ow to get preg and paying up the a** for a kid they never wanted. I think the way he figures is since she lied about the birth control and he made it clear that he would play no part in this kids life also gave her the money to abort she choose diffrent so he was able to walk away with it on her shoulders. Its her problem to find a daddy not ours. with love flowerseed <p>[This message has been edited by flowerseed (edited July 23, 2001).]

OK BOnnie bb...you asked for flack you are gonna get it...Fair warning..I am an OLD Pregnant woman (42) who has spent most of the morning sicker than a dog...and just finished 12 peices of sushi (cooked of course)....so I anticipate I will be sick again shortly. with all that said..<BR>FIRST, you are correct...THE FATHER of the child has a responsibilty...NOT HIS WIFE ...BIG HELLO!!!!!!!<BR>WHAT THE h*** right does the OW have writing a threat letter to THE WIFE...should that not been done to the H????<BR>and if the H choses NOT to be involved with OC...what the H*** does the wife have to do with that?????PUSH HIM TO BE RESPONSIBLE????, when she is suffering??? and her life and her childrens lives are so affected ????, and the one thing I DO give MINA alot of credit for is how she protects HER children...THAT IS MINA'S responsiblity to maintain the stabilty, and the safety of HER children...MY KIDS COME FIRST PERIOD...and if she cannot handle this...how do you think her kids will handle this????....she is doing the right thing for her and her family....you cannot MAKE someone feel what you want them to.. Now I too was on the side of the OC, infact I came here in total pity of the OC. BUT I placed all my anger at MY H, I was in a better situation (financially and emotionally) than MINA and some of the others here, it makes a big difference. However as far as the weakness of the H, and how you would look at him....GIVE ME A BIG BREAK...HE (INCLUDING MY h) IS A CHEATER...he broke vows we never thought these men would break...I look at my H now and sometimes I wonder who the heck he is...CUZ the man I married would NEVER had done that...we are dealing with so much more..that worring about wether he is a good father to OC...is like a major WHO CARES???...gads..I could give a rats A$$, so can others..we did not say...oh please sleep with my H..and if you get PG we will be one big happy family...NOPE didnt say it.. is the child an innocent of course he is..it is a stinking shame...BUT the OW is the mother...and like me and Mina and the others here protecting their children...she needs to do the same for hers...and putting in him a situation were the adults are not ready for him...is not going to be "good for the child"...anyway...wish you could take medication when you are PG these posts are making me CRAZY...Hormone Police!!!...anyway that is MY opinion...have a good day

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bonniebb:<BR>[B]Should the child suffer because of it?<P>No, Bonniebb, the child should NOT suffer because of what they did, but if the OW selfishly KEEPS the child, she is in fact, causing this child to suffer...this is HER sin and no one elses. It is her responsibility to make sure the child is adopted to a loving, stable two-parent home with all the advantages the child will not have with her. The husband's ONLY obligation is to his wife and children from that union, and to no one else, except financially.<P>Honestly ladies, is it just that you are threatned that he'll resume a relationship with OW if he has contact with OC? <P>Probably...partially...but what is wrong with that? Contact with OW caused our lives to be altered forever, never to be the same again. It is the worst possible thing a man can do to his wife. Complete healing is something that may or may not ever come. The profound heartache and disappointment prevents me from wanting to see the OC because I do not want to be reminded of what he did and what they did together. It is so extremely painful to me, it is something I still reel from after nearly three years.<P>Bonniebb...I am still mad as hell. I am jealous of the OW and the child she was able to have and I cannot. I am threatened by her mere existance and even though intellectually I know my husband would rather come down with a case of the clap rather than spend one nano second with her ever again, I still struggle with the immense pain of what they did. And if he sacrificed me or my wishes and our long involved history for a child that should not have ever been born with some trollop he boffed over a three week period, then I would have absolutely no respect for him ever again...that he could hurt me further or disrupt our lives further with 'involvment' would be perceived by me as great disrespect for me and my wishes and therefore, any respect I had left for him would be diminished.<P>I come first. He comes first to me. Our kids are our only kids. The OC should never have been born. The OC should have been given up for adoption. It is the OW's problem to figure out how to make a family for OC since she is the one who made all the decisions without consulting us. It's her problem and I don't want either of them in my life ever again under any circumstances. Too bad, so sad.<P> If that's the issue, you clearly have marital issues to work on.<P>OF COURSE WE DO!!!! Duh. That's why we are in this position. That's why we have no room in our lives for OC or OW. Of course there are marital issues that need our undivided attention. We do not need to be distracted by OC/OW issues or interference. The marriage and it's healing comes first----always!<P> I don't mean to come off harsh, but when I look at my own innocent children, I see that OC is no different and deserves love.<P>Let the OW give the OC the love it deserves...it is not my problem or that of my husband because she is so supremely selfish she decided to keep a child she knew would not have the benefits of a full time father in the child's life...shame on the OW!<P>And before someone says that they didn't have a say in getting pregnant, we all know the ONLY sure way not to get pregnant is not to have sex!!! They took the risk willingly.<P>Absolutely. But that does not mean I have to suffer anymore than I already have, nor does it mean MY children need to suffer anymore than they already have. My husband's only obligation is to heal THIS family. As long as the courts allow the OW's of the world to make all these arbitrary decisions without consulting the bio father or his spouse, who this impacts forever, then all bets are off. We know they did the nasty, the horizontal bop, the deed, the big boink, but let's get real here...it is the woman's responsibility to take care of her body to make sure it doesn't get knocked up. It is her obligation, especially if she is over 21, and KNOWS the man is MARRIED with a FAMILY, to take precautions if she is screwing around. <P>Women make the final call when it comes to sex. I know when I was single, I made the decision whether or not there would be sex. The guy never did. If I didn't want it, it didn't happen...especially if the jerk was married, engaged, 'goin steady' or whatever. I never went out with anyone who I knew was attached to someone else. If I found out someone lied to me and was attached, I would never see them again, regardless how I felt or what I wanted...because it wasn't right. It wasn't MY man.<P>If I knowingly see a man I know is married and have unprotected sex with him and get knocked up, it becomes my sole problem because to make noise about it, hurts the innocent wife and his innocent children, and that is supremely evil to the core. I only make noise if I plan on using him for a meal ticket, and income share, and make unreasonable demands on his time and selfishly keep a kid I know will never really know his dad. How heartless and selfish of me to do this to an innocent child! Make all the decisions that effect everyone and call all the shots that will screw up their family forever is the utmost in evil and selfishness.<P>If I were an OW, it would be up to me to give that child a chance at a normal life and give it up for adoption, never letting the MM know he even fathered a child.<P>I know because this happened to me in 1969. When I found out my lover was married, he never saw me again and never knew of the son I gave up for adoption. If I can do it, so can they.<P>Catnip =^^= <P>

Bonniebb,<P>OK. Here comes my share of the flak.<P>If the OW in any of our cases had decided to put oc up for adoption we would all be saying what a kind and unselfish person she was. That she knew it was in the child's best interest to make this most difficult of decisions.<BR>Unfortunatly our H's don't have this choice. In my H's case he wants no contact. And why do you think he is obligated to this child ? Because SHE made the choice to keep it ?! A choice I would like to add my H had NO say so in. Do I think that makes him a bad person ? NO ! He can't put the child up for adoption but neither can sl*t dog bit*h force him into fatherhood.<BR>No one has yet to be able to explain to me why consenting to sex is consent to parenthood for men but it is not for women.<BR>jtigger<p>[This message has been edited by Jtigger (edited July 23, 2001).]

Bravo, Jtigger...my sentiments exactly. I like your logic.<P>Catnip =^^=

Dear Mina,<P>I agree with most everyone as well. Especially being the OW who is not even letting XOMM know about the baby. My H and I decided to keep her and raise her as ours! I have posted many times that the last thing I want to do is cause any more pain than I may have already done. If I were to go find OM and tell him of this child, and sue for CS, I would then count myself in the same ranks as most of the OW you all are dealing with! I can't believe that your OW is writing YOU the letter telling you to grow up and such!! If anyone in this mess is the grown up, it's you. If she is so concerned about the baby needing a daddy, she should go find one, and leave you two alone! Like Catnip said, your H was not consulted on whether this child would be born, or if he even wanted to be a daddy again! Yes, it does take two to make a baby, but there is such a thing as abstaining to avoid the baby in the first place. You can't have a baby to hold on to a MM, or any man for that matter. They just end up feeling trapped, and resenting the child, as most of the H's do. The OW should have thought of this before she decided to keep the baby. I truly believe that most of them keep the baby for the money!<P>JMHO<P>Tigger

Thank you ladies, for your support,<P>flowerseed, you are so right H XOW doesn't get it, she's the obsessive type. Ow is in this situation because she want it to be. H offered to pay for an abortion, and like a typical ow, she told H I don't believe in abortion, they are so hypocrite, yes but they think is OK to sleep with a married man. <P>COP, It makes a lot sense, if she's really moving out of NY why is she asking for h and my children to have contact with oc. She has some nerve. H and I have to put our needs first, which is working in the marriage,we have a long way to recovery, let ow worry about the child. <BR>Since I found out about oc in November of 99, the first thing I did was filed separation and child support. I got his first paycut out his paycheck when he was working, now they lower my amount and ow since H is not working, his only income is unemployment. Ow was extremely upset when she found about this, that has made threats that she will tell the courts that I live with my H and claiming support, next court date is August 9 will see what happen then. CD has given me wonderful advice. I do not have to worry since h use his brother's address.<P>You know, another thing which irratates me is someone sleeps with a married man because he lacks morals and intergrity, yet when it suits the OTHER person, they want the married person to suddently grow morals and integrity. Now why is this? At one time, they were grateful this man didn't have enough to say "No" and now, they suddenly want him to be some upstanding person?!? WELL SAID COR!<P>My Cross, Ow needs to get a life. Like you said his only resposibility is to me and our children.<BR>I did file harrassment charges,when h change his cellular number, ow found our neighbor phone number through the yellow pages, which he also happens to have h last name, she had the nerve to call my neighbor asking for H. She has gotten smart, since then the letter ow send she mail it with no return address, and it was type, I don't know if it will have any validation.<P>gemini, This ow are incredible, how they think alike.<P>MY cross, Catnip,and jtigger,you have such a way with words. Well said. Thank you Catnip,my cross and jtigger for putting in to words what I will have not be able to say to Bonniebb. However where does this Bonniebb came from, I was searching for any post so far I couln't find any. <P>what if? I do have respect for you and the ladies in this forum who choose to have contact with oc. I have also witness in this forum how this ow make it difficult for you ladies and your h who you choose to have contact with oc, it's a no win situation with this ow. However it's something that I will not do, nor I have the desire or the emotional ability to do. This situation has left me emotional drain.

Hey Mina,<BR>Didn't you already talk to the police about ow harrassing you and your neighbors with her persistant attempts to contact you? Take the letter to the police and press harrassment charges. She's already been warned, and the police won't like it that she thumbed her nose at their warning. Get your butt to the PD and hand them that letter.<P>On the other hand, if you're up to playing some psychological warfare, call ow and say "You're absolutely right. We should be involved with oc's life. When can I pick oc up from your house to bring her here and visit with me, my h, and my children?" I'd almost guarantee that THIS scenario is NOT what she has in mind, and the idea of YOU being fully involved will freak her out. She obviously thinks that you will consent to having your h and kids visit with oc at her house on her time. If you make it sound like you'll take oc and visit with oc without ow being involved at ALL, ow's going to run like the wind. I'd bet my right arm on it.<BR>with love,<BR>-cd

Hi CD, <P>Yes, I had file harrssment charges against ow, when she contact our neighbor asking for h. I receive this letter from her on Saturday, will it had any validation to the police, since there is no return address. Ow doesn't want to give up.<P>Of course you are right, her idea of her son being involve with H and our children, doesn't include me. I have not spoken to ow since that incident, nor I have the desire. Most likely I will go to the police. I am so tired of this situation. <P>I will email send you an email later on tonight. I hope ow and her mom, are not causing more problems for you and your H. <P>with love mina

Dear tigger4jdt, <P>I have follow your story, you are a wonderful xow and decent human beign. In my case I am dealing with and a vindictive and manipulative person, who doesn't have any morals, who thinks by getting pregnant from a married man, was going to be able to keep him. <P>with love mina

Well, here goes...<BR>I agree some with everyone who posted. The one thing that I see in many posts is that we, BS, dont give much responsibility to our WS. I, for one, blame H and OW equally. H didnt just fall into her! He went willingly. He went knowing he was betraying our vows, our lives, his wife. He knew that in doing so he could lose his life as he knew it. Regardless of the fact that OC was born, H was blind enough, stupid enough, selfish enough to believe that for that brief moment in time, he could have his cake and eat it too.<BR>The Lord works in mysterious ways...I believe He was saying to my H, "Now try and get out of this one!" Well, it is not that simple. <BR>For those of you that have joint agreement for no contact with OC, I give you credit. I, for one, agree with Bonniebb in that regard. If my H chose to abandon his son for any reason, I could not live with that. Now why I can choose to live with the fact that he abandoned his marriage instead for whatever brief amount of time, I cannot tell you.<BR>Both OW and H are responsible for their actions. When two people have sex, a baby may be conceived...period. So dont have sex at all OR deal with the consequences and take responsibility...period. This may and in my eyes should include a relationship with the OC. At least some form of knowing the OC beyond a mailing address and a check.<BR>However, having said all this, which I know will come back to bite me in the a$$, the OW should not be telling your family what, when, where, or how. That is between you and your spouse. Neither choice, visitation or no visitation, will make this situation any easier, you and your spouse must do what is best for your marriage without regard to OW. For myself and my H, visitation on a regular basis was the only way this woman could stay with a man.<BR>Side note...my father was a complete A##HOLE, for my entire life, so maybe I do not want any child no matter how they were conceived to go through that pain with regards to their father.<BR>Having said all this, I hope that everyone still believes that I support whatever decision is best for each person. These were just best for us.

I just started reading this board and found that it is more interesting than I thought. It seems that ow is the other woman and that you are having some problems with her. I can just say from personal experience that dealing with the other woman can at times be more than you ask for. My husband has twins by a woman who after six years came to him and told him about them she is hell on wheels an since our marriage she has done every thing possible to destroy it. But it all came to a head when she threatened my life this April and I filed Criminal complaint charges against her. Well needless to say she was just served this past Friday and we appear in Court this Month. Sometimes, it is worth the aggrevation and time it will take in order to send clear cut messages to OW, they need to understand two important principles, 1. the only tie that they have with our husband is a child that will grow up and eventually understand the circumstance surrounding their birth and 2- That we are not going anywhere and have been there from day one and that come hell or high water nothing is going to change the fact that I as his wife will always come first. Sometimes a little legal intervention is just the jolt they need to be thrusted back into reality.