Cat, I started writing this to you under NGU's post and then I realized I was just going off and I didnt want to take away from her so I copied and pasted it here..<P>Catnip, I went back and read some old posts of yours tonight and you had posted how your H went thru a period of being downright mean. That is not your words but my H does the same and that is the way I see it. He did that to me basically until he cut ow off and then decided to work on our marriage. Well for the past few fights he gets so mad he says these hurtful things to me like "screw it,Ill never make you happy" and "just get out" and just etc. He knows I am totally commited to this marriage, but he seems to think that it isnt worth being "miserable"his whole life to try to make this up to me. I do not understand this logic bc I am the only one who has ever read a book, look on the internet, suggest seeing a therapist, filling out the questionaires from this site..anything! It is like I am still the only one to work on this. He just expects it to all come together on its own. I do not understand this. We dont even deal with ow\oc. Heck we do not even pay cs. In that respect it is like it doesnt exist and he takes advantage of that, like therefore it we forget about it it really wont exist. And I still think about it every single day. I do not however bring it up to him in anger. I jsut dont see how he can say things arent any better. OF course our main argument is over the drinking, which he still does. Aside for the fact that he is an alcoholic and denies it, my main prob is that he still is driving after he has been drinking. He is just an idiot when it comes to this. I have begged him to be responsible even if he doesnt like it, to please do it for me and for our kids. My H is extremely intelligent and almost always logical in any debate, but his reasoning for drinking anddriving is that to be responsible is the have to plan his night and that is no fun. Can you believe that?! How hard is it to have a cab # on you? Ugh. I do nto know how I got off on this, but I think I have been holding it in too long.<BR>

broken,<BR>If you truly believe he has a problem, have you tried an intervention. I'm not that familiar with it, but it is where all friends and family ambush him, with a counselor, and tell him how they love him but he has a problem and they want him to get help...right now. If it works, the person leaves with the counselor to the rehab facility right away. If it doesnt, then maybe you need to plan B him. In my opinion, your marriage can never heal until he gets help for his addiction. My H affair occurred after he had been sober for three years, but that is because he got sober, but didnt deal with all the underlying issues. We are doing that now through a counselor. You are in a heck of a place right now and I will pray for u and your H.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ BW }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>You and I talked the other night. I wish I had much more to offer you than I did last night. But I don't. You are in waters I've never swam.<P>I can tell you that I'm glad you finally posted about your situation. Perhaps Catnip and other here who have experiences with addictions can lead you on the right path.<P>God Bless You sweetheart.<P>Z.<P>------------------<BR>Zebra Baby ...<P>Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

BW:<P>What you are going through is classic. I went through it as well.<P>When the WS is also an alcoholic, a practicing alcoholic, all their bad traits and characteristics become glaringly obvious. An alcoholic is self-absorbed, prideful, detached, often mean and disrespectful, too, among many, many other terrible traits.<P>Unless they get treatment and WANT to get clean and sober, the chances of marital success and self-respect are dismal at best.<P>Your husband needs inspiration from above, possibly a family intervention as T4S suggested, and a desire to keep his family intact. Without some kind of traumatic motivation, they often do not seek help until everyone else gives up and moves on.<P>I suggest you go to...RUN...to Alanon to learn the necessary tools of how you must lovingly detach from him and take care of yourself and your kids. Often, the 'new' you is so attractive to the alcoholic spouse that they often want what you have...they want to learn your 'secret' for serenity and want that for themselves. Sometimes, often in fact, it has been reported that the alcoholic is inspired to get to meetings and try sobriety when they observe their spouse's new attitude.<P>BW, lately my advice is pretty off target so I hesitate to advise too much, but I can tell you what to look for and how to get through it.<P>As far as his drinking and driving, I would report him to the police the next time you know he is on the road driving under the influence. I know this is a tough thing to do because of the possible ramifications that will impact you and your family to the tune of lawyer fees, possible loss of license, jail time, etc, but, if you do not do this, you are enabling him to possibly injure or kill another person.<P>When your husband gives you the old tired song about how you will never get over this, tell him his behavior and lack of remorse is making it impossible for you to 'get past this'. He keeps the pain alinve with his distancing.<BR>His saying these things are a manipulative tactic used to control you and keep you insecure and quiet. This tactic used to make me become instantly subservient until I couldn't stand myself. I disgusted me..I became needy and wimpy. It wasn't long before I decided he just wasn't worth feeling like that and having him control and manipulate me. I took the offense because I simply just didn't care anymore. This made him nervous and he began to make adjustments and efforts to restore.<P>It's tough in the beginning during the first few months or year after discovery because at those times when they are cognizant of what they have done, they are ashamed and remorseful, but it comes off as defiant because they just cannot beleive we are willing to continue with the marriage. So, in a way, they are sabotaging what little they have left that is good and decent because down deep they do not think they deserve it. In fact, your goodness makes him feel even more rotten and guilty.<P>The kinder and more loving we are, the more they resent us yet they love and need the acceptance and care we offer. It is a weird dance of emotions and the fact they do little, if anything, to restore the marriage is frustrating and even causes us to become more resentful, more hurt and more angry because we all feel we have already done so much, all by ourselves, to restore something we did not break and we wonder why they do not display the remorse they need to and we need to see.<P>If they won't look at the Harley books and other material, it might be because they can't stand to think about what they have done and just want to put it behind them, not realizing how devatated we are from discovery. My husband is shocked this is such a big deal to me...or he pretends shock to try to minimize the horror by shaming me into thinking this ain't so bad...when it is.<P>It's a game, BW, and there isn't much we can do about it or them. We can do what we can and leave the rest to God's will...God will decide if this marriage is healthy for us and can bring our spouses back to us and make them whole again. It is up to God, BW...only He can transform them. We cannot, even though we try, and try in vain.<P>Once we let go and let God step in and take over, life will seem to take on a new harmony for us. Check our the Power of a Praying Wife by Stormie Omartin. Many here have found incredible comfort from the prayers in her book.<P>Stay strong...don't be a doormat, don't enable him and report him if he is going to endanger other's lives with his recklessness. Take care of yourself and your kids and go to Alanon several times a week until you 'get it' and learn to lovingly detach from his illness.<P>I will pray for you, BW...I certainly know what you are experiencing. I hope that five years from now we can compare stats and happily tell each other that God blessed us with sober, loving and proactive husbands, eager to move mountains to restore the marriage.<P>God bless you, BW...<P>Love<P>Catnip =^^=<P>

Harley has an interesting article out there on the co-dependency movement and how his principles compare, BUT when there is chemical dependency involved, there is a completely different dynamic!<P>I agree with Catnip that you should seek alternative approaches in dealing with your spouse's drinking habits.<P>Here's the article I'm talking about. Perhaps it will give you some insight:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8110_cod.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8110_cod.html</A>

Yes!Power of a Praying Wife is a definite must read for your own sanity. It is helping me to get through this time and many others. As usual,Catnip, well said!

Thank you guys so much for responding...I will check out the book and the link..thanks!<P>I just do not understand his addiction. I have really tried to not nag so I do not push him into it. He doesnt thnk he has a prob bc he doesnt drink all the time. He drinks an avg of once a week. He seems to think as long as he doesnt do it every day and start beating the crap out of everyone he is not an alcoholic. I have read some al-anon stuff and it has helped, but you are right, I need to go to the support group. My main prob with the beer (and that is almost always what it is) is that it seems to control him not the other way around and isnt that what makes an addition an addiction? I dont think I am ready to do something as drastic as calling the cops on him...plus I am usually clueless until he comes home and I figure it out. But I can not screw us all. I am not working, but going to school and I believe a law just passed her requiring mandatory jail time. He claims he will nto drink and drive anymore after our last discussion and he has not had opportunity to prove himself. I guess trustin an addict about the addiction is pretty stupid though isnt it. He has done a few things to give me hope. A friend of his came over one night and there were already a few people here. They didnt have any beer and my H asked the friend to bring some. THe friend brought Jim beam in stead. I was so upset. I have never been around H in person on liquor, but have heard adn have dealt with him over the phone and he gets mean. I got upset that the friend brought the JB since the friend had expressed concern tome over H's alcohol prob before but here he was enabling the action. Anyway all the men drank a JB and Coke, all but my H that is. He saw how upset I was and just poured a Coke. I was proud for the moment. Of course the next day he fixed himself a drink (the friend had left it at our house), but only one drink. So I know he has some will power, it is just that he choosed when to exercise it ane when not to. Thanks for all your help..<BR>Love <BR>bw