You know, I think there is a lot of good conversation here. Even the disagreements promt us all to think and if I am not mistaken, that's probably why this forum was created. And really, although I have disagreed with a lot of you, I am coming to understand we are all in a lot of pain and maybe what is right for me isn't right for you. Still, I stand by the one principle - that these men are not the victims of the OW, that they knew pregnancy was a risk and they took it, and that since the child is here and they have no control over OW keeping it, they ought to do their best to father the child. I also stand by what I know to be right for ME, and that is that I couldn't respect my H if he didn't father his child.<BR>All that being said, there is a particular poster who has attacked me from the start and everytime someone comes along and supports MY point of view, she comes swooping in telling everyone that I am not a wife, that I am not who I say I am etc. I really resent that. I have just as much of a right to be here as the next guy. I don't know what her particular problem is, nor do I care. But all I can say to you is to stop bashing me and my name. I don't agree with you, but I have not personally attacked you and accused you of some kind of false identity. Lay off is all I can say, let the people here make their OWN judgements. They don't need you telling them how to feel. I am here in pain too and I don't need YOU trying to start up lies about me C of R! If you don't like me or if you think I am not who I say, just ignore me. But let the other women here decide for themselves.

I didn't lie. I didn't make others judge you. I provided the posters of this board with information I had and with that information, they could <B>fairly</B> judge the situation and come up with their own conclusions. And they did. <P>

What "information"? That someone on some other board ALSO disagreed with you so therefore we must be the same human being? You are obsessed! Why not spend your time doing something more constructive?<BR>Now, mark my word, I don't care WHAT you say about me or how many times you swoop in to say something ruse about me. You and your clique do not bother me nor will you scare me away. But I will NOT post to you anymore. Keep up YOUR childish behavior all by yourself and you will quickly see yourself being judged. Play nice, C of R, if you don't like someone, leave them alone. Quit trying to drum up trouble. Surely you have more important things to do, I know i do.

Wrong again BBB<BR>These boards were created for the sole purpose of SUPPORT...NOT debate...friendly or not. Women come here with all different types of situations...not one of them is the same....you call it "clicks" there really are none...<BR>How can there be...not one of our situations is the same.<BR>And man you have not been reading if you think we dont hold H's responsible...Have you read my situation???...we gave OW over 70,000 dollars in support (taking responsiblity for OC)..only to find out SHE LIED, AND MY H WAS NOT THE FATHER OF HER BABY...But hell H had more money than the real father...she needed to go to jail...and I still have a year to put her there....we all feel for the OC, most of us truly do...and we know ( a BIG DUH) that our H's had to have lied to OW because affairs are nothing but a bunch of lies...so we hold H's responsible for their part...period.<BR>BUT, you coming here, trying to stir something up that you truly know nothing about, is really very cruel...and very insensitive. You get up on this High horse...the cause for the OC...I have posted to you before..if you truly care for these children...get involved there are a ton of programs that need caring adults involved in....I myself have been involved with the March of dimes as well as being a court appt child advocate ...so STOP COMING HERE LIKE YOU ARE HOLIER THAN THOU...and PUT you money were your BIG mouth is... There are alot of people in the world like you..who complain but NEVER do anything...Now go out there and become a "big sister" or something ...since you are OH so concerned for all these children without fathers in there lives....and STOP.. what you are doing here...I have NO respect for you..coming here and lying, and bashing...you are not some big crusader for kids...until you have done something other than "making" you pretend H be a father to the OC....If anything you are telling is the truth...maybe you should be concerned for your own children...they learn by example...

I don't know Bonniebb's true identity. She very well could be an OW or a W. But what I do know is the same cycle that has occured here in the past is occuring again. My suggestion is that everyone just let her postings post and ignore them if they are offensive. Instead of arguing, or getting her kicked off, why not just ignore what offends us? To me that is the best way to handle people I find offensive. If she posts something that could be construed as supportive or truthful then respond to it, but otherwise eventually with no response she will stop posting offensive messages.

Mycross<BR>I can see you are very angry and I am sorry for what you are going through. Are you saying that one can only be here if they are going to agree with you? I for one do not agree with someone not caring for their child, but that is me and the course I will take in my situation. I really don't know what you are so angry about. Just because I disagree with you? It's my opinion, it doesn't have to be yours. I wish you the best and it seems like the OW in your situation is an awful person and I hope you are able to get your $$ back. As far as me being holier than thou. I don't see myself that way. It has more to do with my marriage. I can't respect him if he isn't a father to his child. It's his choice and I can only control what I can and can't tolerate. For me, I can't respect and stay married to a man who would do that. Others agreed with me so it isn't as if I am alone in this. Why does it bother you that I feel this way? If it doesn't work for you, so be it. Do what is good for you, but jeez, I think I am allowed to offer my opinion here too and what works for me.

Bonnie..Bonnie...Bonnie...Gads girl...get off your High horse...NO ONE said that you have to agree with ME or anyone one else here...THE POINT OF THE BOARD IS SUPPORT (not debate, as you had stated above)...and Girl you are the most UNSUPPORTIVE person..<BR>Leave you Husband...no one cares...if thats what you want GO...<BR>And quite frankly I dont care if you agree with me...who are YOU??? Not anyone I would even have lunch with. <BR>I dont like you coming here blasting away at women who are dealing with the worst pain in their lives...TELLING THEM (you strango) HOW TO LIVE their lives and if they dont do what you want them they are horrible people...AND IF IT WERE YOU, and your H did not want to see OC..how you could not even love him anymore...THAT IS YOU!!!..most people when they have been betrayed have to deal with their OWN family and the betrayl first BEFORE they can deal with all the other issues...THIS IS WHY I KNOW YOU ARE NOT A BS...sorry you dont fit any profile ..you are just here to cause a rukus...and the only anger have have is towards women like you...Lying women like you ...if you have spent anytime reading this board and backgrounds on all of us..you would have seen that none of us are the same...you are just a really bad trouble maker...and yes that angers me...SO MISS "SAVE THE CHILDREN"...what are you going to do about all the fatherless children out there??...try volunteer work..instead of bashing women in pain...and if you do have children of your own...START THERE...Now go find another board to infiltrate with your lies

Jeez, who is attacking here??<BR>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MyCross:<BR>Leave you Husband...no one cares...if thats what you want GO...<BR> I think that is harsh,<BR>TELLING THEM (you strango) HOW TO LIVE their lives and if they dont do what you want them they are horrible people...AND IF IT WERE YOU, and your H did not want to see OC..how you could not even love him anymore...THAT IS YOU!!!..most people when they have been betrayed have to deal with their OWN family and the betrayl first BEFORE they can deal with all the other issues...THIS IS WHY I KNOW YOU ARE NOT A BS...sorry you dont fit any profile <P><BR> What profile? I don't know bb from eve I do however know myself and i personally feel the way bb does. i could not love nor respect my hubby if he wasn't a father to ALL his kids, ours his step child and the OC. that is me and me alone I don't thiink a man is a man unless he does that. I think the problem is the way bb trys to get her point across, i tell you i feel the exact same way she does but i also tell yuo i completely understand why most bs can never accept oc or even why thw ws can't. i think it is all about the way it is delivered.

Thanks for the support WhatIf. I know I'm not alone in the way I feel about a man owning up to his responsibilities. And I don't think it's fair to say that there is a "profile". Just because I may not feel the way the majority does, doesn't mean that what I have to say isn't of value.<P>I have tried to soften up my dialog because I realize a lot of my harshness is from the pain I am dealing with. Some of them are still attacking me, but that's ok. I appreciate you supporting me. Do you have contact with OC? How has it been for you and your husband? I am in the beginning stages do I don't know what will happen. He sees the child and wants to and I respect him for that. When and where I will fit in I do not know. How does it work for you?

Bonniebb:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have tried to soften up my dialog because I realize a lot of my harshness is from the pain I am dealing with.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That'll help around here. Of all the MB forums, this is the one that has the most pain. Affairs tend to be "lose-lose-lose" situations for all three parties---and the conception of an OC just throws another person (innocent) into the mix.<P>MyCross is partially right---this board is for support. But it's for a particular type of support---the focus of these boards is applying the MarriageBuilder principles to repair and strenghten marriages. It's not to say that other opinions aren't welcome---but it's primary focus is on helping people apply these techniques to heal and improve marriages.<P>In the situation that you and others are dealing with, there's often no one right "way" to handle it. In general, the advice here is to focus on the marriage---repair the damage, and learn the skills to deal with anything, including an OC. Learning and applying the Policy of Joint Agreement and the Rule of Honesty is essential, and if you can successfully apply it during these times, you'll be able to do it anytime.<P>In your case, it seems as though you would not be able to "deal with" your husband only being involved with the OC in a monetary fashion. I can appreciate how you feel, but you're also dealing with this situation at a very early stage---you may feel differently if your children are crying for their father, should you choose separation. The best piece of advice I can give you is to call the MB counseling center at 888-639-1639 and make an appointment with either Steve or Jenn Harley, and try to let them help you and your husband deal with this marriage. It's my belief that you would be able to repair your marriage---and if you're willing, the OC could be part of your family. But that scenario takes a real plan, and some skilled coaching to make it happen---the counseling is the best thing you can do.<P>Please consider it.

K<BR>Thank you for your excellent advice and I will definetly take it. One thing I want to clarify is that I am not forcing contact between H and OC, H wanted contact all along but at first said he wouldn't if I objected, which at first I did. Like I have said before, I don't know what the future will hold and I am not certain of very much, just that I know I couldn't stay with him if he chose no contact. Since he hasn't chosen no contact, that won't be an issue thank goodness!<BR>But you are right about the rest being a real process. I know I am still in the very beginning stages and it will take time and planning and that we will need help.<BR>Thanks for your kind response.

BBB,<P>You are barking up the wrong tree sweetie. Although my H chooses to be involved with the oc, I STRONGLY believe that in cases where people aren't married that the Father should have the choice to relinquish his rights WITHOUT paying support, or in the cases where women want an abortion(Iam totally against it) then they should pay half. I believe that both parents should go in front of a judge and the man can say,yes I will help or no and I reliquish all parental rights. Signed,sealed and delivered. THen, if the woman decides to keep the baby, then the Father is relieved of all responsibility.PERIOD. Get you **** straight,BBB. You will be found out!

I am just a lurker on this particular post and I have read the previous ones where all the conflict began. I just want to say that there is WAY too much bitterness here!! Yes this board is for support, but remember, we are all DIFFERENT human beings that will have different opinions. It sounds like there are some people on this board that are so hurt by their situations, they attack anyone who believes differently than they do. Personally, I think it is good to have differing opinions on the same thread, then the readers can take both sides to heart and decide what advice is good for them. I think we ALL need to be considerate of others opinions, and if we have a different one, share it in a NON-OFFENDING way!! All this attacking back and forth will do nothing to solve this problem and has a good chance of driving off others that might need this board for help and advice! (Just my opinion) <BR>June

Bonnie, the horse is dead.

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Enough. Please! Enough!<p>Please let old posts die, this is only bringing turmoil here. Total unnecessary and very unproductive.