Le, i believe you are following in Takola's footsteps on this issue.

Here's the deal. if my W finds the Playboy that i have then we will do whatever she want to do with it. who knows...we may look at it together or she may throw it away and not say a word

my W is not sitting around crying about this and wondering if i have a mag in my closet. we have a lot of things going on in our lives that make a playboy in the closet the littlest of our concerns. my guess whould be that if W finds it, she would throw it away and forget about it. she does not have a porn issue with me because i own a playboy magazine. she did have an issue with me when i had a box full of porn. we disposed of it a long time ago.

do you seriously think my marriage is in jeopardy because i have a playboy in my closet? i can tell you without a doubt you are mistaken.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just hope Tak is around to help you pick up the pieces b/c she's pretty good at that </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i hope Takola is around too, because i am so young and inexperienced in life that i need all the help i can get. i believe my life and marriage would completely fall apart if i didn't have Takola's advice....and yours too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> BULL HOCKY!!!!

like i said before, when a problem arrises i will do what is necessary to fix the problem.

I'm not sure I hope I'm around when you have problems, Dean. I've helped many people successfully through many types of problems from infidelity to abuse and addiction. The thing is that it is what the person being helped does that makes or breaks the situation. It gives me ulcers to try to help and see the situation still fall apart.

Anyway, I think the porn discussion is a fruitful one. The reason I say this is that people will disagree on it for the rest of my lifetime, I'm sure. It is being able to understand, articulate, and respect the other side that is the key here.

You do have problems with honesty, because it is something you use in measured amounts to protect what you want to keep on doing. Honesty is something that I've tackled on EN in multiple threads probably spanning hundreds of posts. I'm not up to redoing that here. There is a good section on Dishonesty in the Love Busters book, and I suggest you read it. It wouldn't hurt to read it and consider it.

Yes, I do tell my husband when someone hits on me. Yes, I have told my husband both the number of people I've been with in the past, names, and the circumstances surrounding the relationship. Yes, I tell him when I do things so that he can let me know whether or not it hurts him.

Your spouse not saying it hurts them when they don't know anything is going on is different than them saying it doesn't hurt when they know what is going on. That doesn't mean you go back and tell your W every time you look at Playboy. It means that she is still aware of the fact that you do, and you just avoid doing the behavior in front of her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If you are not anti-porn, I am having trouble seeing how these men who are trying to be considerate of their wive's feelings, are hurting their wives. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are men who genuinely consider their wives' feelings when it comes to porn (and other issues, of course). Dishonesty, however, isn't consideration. Dishonesty masks behavior and prevents your spouse from feeling the pain because they are ignorant of the situation. Consideration tells the truth, gets honest feedback about how the action makes the spouse feel, respects the spouse's feelings and makes adjustments in the behavior to avoid causing pain.

If my H has a problem with me using crack, it is not consideration to simply stop telling him about it and do it behind his back. This is a no-brainer. However, this approach to solving conflict is no more considerate when applied to other problems.

Dishonesty, far from protecting your spouse, causes them to go around bumping into invisible problems they weren't aware of. When the truth is discovered (and it will be), you now have 2 issues at hand instead of one: the action the spouse objects to, and the deceit. You've also squandered your credibility and your spouse, rightfully so, will be distrustful of you. Trust isn't something to which you are entitled, it is earned.

Quipper,

IMO in marriage there are something that just can't be POJA'd. There are somethings that just plain hurt and if you love someone you should be able to stop because they are important to you.

There were things that both my H and I had to discontinue b/c it just simply hurt and in the scheme of things it just simply wasn't that important.

I guess what I don't understand is why something is so important to you that you will continue to do it without regard to your spouse. I don't really care what it is or how often, if it hurts and you continue the message you are sending is a huge.... YOU AREN'T THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN MY LIFE.

I am not pro porn or anti porn. I would have a problem if my H looked at it as in mag and internet (I think,never really had that issue) but I try to be open and listen to reason on every issue.

I guess my entire issue and stance is. If you have to slip around to do it. DON'T.

Maybe if Dean could list reason's why this enhances his life, why he feels the need to do read playboy instead of another magazine. I might be able to understand.

Le

Le, I don’t believe porn in any form or fashion enhances my life. I think looking at a decent soft porn mag every once in a while is something almost everyone has done at one time or another.

A few of the reason that I have looked at them are as follows:

1. my wife and I have looked at the Hustler mag jokes and laughed until our sides hurt.

2. One if the best true stories I’ve ever read was a in Penthouse. It was about an American man illegally bringing heroin from Asia and almost getting caught. It was a true story because I remember reading about it in the newspapers when he finally got caught.

3. Some mags have self tests which will (supposedly) tell you things about your sexuality.

4. In my opinion, a nice female body is a pleasure to look at. The photographers and photo artist make the photos near flawless and it is nice to see.

5. There are advertisements for sexual aids and sexual aid catalogs.

By no means am I promoting porn mags, but if any person of legal age wants to purchase one of these mags, then he should have to right to do so.....and that person does have the legal right to do it.

Takola, on the issue of dishonesty: Repeating for the third or fourth time, my wife never said, “I don’t want you to look at a dirty magazine for as long as we are together”.

I respect all you have written here at MB, but you and I have a different outlook on the porn issue. Sometimes men and women think differently, and this is a prime case of it. Let me say this one more time: I am not dishonest to my wife because I look at a playboy every once in a while.

I too have helped many people with many problems. Many people have helped me with some of my problems. MB is a great place to get and give advice. I don’t mind writing a letter or talking about any issue because I have experienced many different things in my life. I have learned a lot by trial and error. I’ve learned a lot from my Dad who is 90 years old. The most I have learned has been from the experiences in relationships themselves. Moving to this big in 1990 city gave me the opportunity to acquire a lot of info i would have never got the chance to get when i lived back in my hometown. one thing i will stand by until the day i die is that honesty is a great quality. Although, in certain cases, a confession can cost a person his or her life.

<small>[ November 14, 2003, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: dean790 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Repeating for the third or fourth time, my wife never said, “I don’t want you to look at a dirty magazine for as long as we are together”.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Has she said, "I realize you continue and will continue to look at them when I am not present and I am ok with that?"

It's not whether or not she didn't say she had a problem with it - did she say she didn't?

I would like very much to have a topic and not hijack someone else's but it seems I can't find the post button only the preview post when starting a new topic... can anyone help me please?

The question I have to ask concerns my husband beginning a pattern of picking fights on the weekend, this sends alarms off all over for me, but I don't know what it means, or how to handle it. We spend every weekend (more than a couple of months) angry, silent and apart.

Please help...

myrrh

Dear Myrrh,

You can't get there from here. You have to go to the top, and click on Other Topics, in small print, 2 Inches from the top of the page.

Then, on the screen displaying a list of Other Topic thread titles, 1 Inch from the top, under the light gray word Counsel, is a box that says NEW POST. Click there, and you can create your own thread and thread title. You can go to Forum Home, and select another topic category, and find a box, NEW POST on each category list of thread titles.

With miminal hijacking, I will mention my new technique, is to catch frustration early, and mention, "I think you could express that idea in words more considerate to my Ego and self esteem." Last night, I mentioned to a subordinate, "I would appreciate it if you would use a tone of voice that was more considerate to my self-esteem." There is a book that I am intending to obtain from a library, buy, called Boundaries in Marriage, by Townsend and Cloud.

There is a thread I started under Resolving Conflict entitled Handling Anger, Stemming Verbal Abuse, and Skirting Chaos, to which you are welcome to join. Also, an occasional poster to that thread, Jade 72, 26189 has struggled with these issues, and her posts contain a number of good references.

Blessings

Quipper
Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challennging kids, still struggling

<small>[ November 15, 2003, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>