My husband and his friend work together in an office. The friend is younger that him and is his boss. The problem is that the both of them take their secretaries to lunch all the time, the men pay for it. This is not a business lunch, it is purely social and of course my husband's secretary rides in my husband's car. I am very much offended by this and I told him how improper it is. He disagrees. Am I wrong, do I need to apoligize to him?
Jama

Dear Jama,

I have worked in offices where it was customary to take secretaries to lunch. While theoretically we did not discuss business at lunch, the converstaion occasionally drifted to some work topics.

The secretaries seemed to work dilligently in the offices where this was frequent, or almost daily.

The proprieter would usually pick up the tab. Picking up the tab for a secretaty would not be unusual. Men who have secretaries sometimes have shifting priorities, so when a secretary is in the middle of one project, a boss will ask her to make corrections on a letter that she just typed, as he had dictated it. The boss has made a mistake, and the secretary is incovenienced to cover it up.

What should you do? I redouble my efforts with my wife, when I feel that there may be some slippage. I pick my wife up after work, and we go out to dinner or shopping. You have only asked if you should appologise. An appology, to me means more than saying, "I'm Sorry" It means taking a fresh apporach. You have not asked how to take a fresh approach. To appologise, I would suggest looking at 180 Degree Divorce Busters, under Negoitations, by TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN. Find a way to give yourself confidence that your marriage is in a stage of getting better.

Ask your husband if there is anything that he is having trouble getting his secrfetary to do at work. Offer to do it at home. Or find a neighbor lady who will transcribe dictation for him, or other chores. Look for ways to compete. i pay $35.00 for a full micro casette tape to go to word. I have not yet tried the new dication programs, that type words from your voice. I think a decent program is $150.00. How aabout that for Christmas? You can keep him company for the 4 hours it takes to program the voice module.

If he is taking his secretary to dinner, you my wish to ask him to especially let you know about that in advance, or with as much notice as possible. I will sometimes leave my wife a message if I am doing something unusual, just to keep her in the loop. I keep a family calendar on the refrigerator, and post changes as they happen. I have the clanedar set up in Word, portrait, so if the calendar gets lost, I can print it out again.

You have not asked how to spece up your marriage, but you might think about that as a goal to consider.

Quipper

Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging children, still struggling

<small>[ November 08, 2003, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Jama-
While some men here will undoubtedly disagree, I do not think you're wrong in being concerned/offended, I personally would be very uncomfortable and have told my husband so... check out "Loving Your Marriage Enough to Protect It" by Jerry B. Jenkins... there are some things in there that he just puts so well I just read them aloud to my husband and he agreed... although I'm sure many men would laugh at the concern.

Wether he thinks it is improper or not himself isn't the point anymore... you've expressed your concern, you do think it's improper, you do see it as a potential problem... now it's his refusal to stop and his ambivalence toward your concern that is the problem. If he were really noble, really caring, really so in love he would never want to jeopardize your marriage he would think, "gee, I don't see this as a problem but my wife really does, I guess I could even understand why she might, it could look bad if someone were to see us out together, even if I know nothing is going on... I guess I should go out of my way to make sure I am not alone with this other woman, only go out if it's a group thing, and then drive ourselves, or fill up the car (if it's more than a two seater...)"

I do think that men really truly don't think much about things like that (well, some men don't, some men just like going out with other woman) but we know that a lot of women think differently... he may not even be attracted to his secretary, and she may not me attracted to him, initially, but women are so much more relational and attracted to relational qualities that the more time they spend with a nice guy the more attractive they become, no matter what they look like- he's fun to be with, I feel comfortable with him, he makes me laugh... then when the woman starts respnding differently to the man, he often reciprocates before he knows what hit him... so even if it truly isn't a problem now, he's a man, she's a woman, there is potential for a problem, and that potential is increased the more time they spend alone together, he needs to build hedges- the book is great for examples and explanations and reasons, in a very nonthreatening and nonjudgmental sort of way... my husband took it it, processed the info, and agreed... marriages need a gameplan for protection, you can't wait until an affair happens to think, hey- maybe he shouldn't be going out with his secretary so much...
I hope he sees the issue for the seriousness it is/could be soon,
marching on,
raz

Thanks to all of you who answered. Each one had some good advice which I intend to follow through on. We have had a good marriage for 6 years now and this is the first issue to come up that wasn't solved immediately. I would like to note that after working for him for only 3 weeks she gave him a red lapel rose while they were on a day long trip alone. He also went out of his way to pick her up from her house. He has assured me that there is nothing going on and I believe him. The only doubt is why does he feel he has to socialize every day at lunch when he says he doesn't like her.

Thanks to all of you who answered. Each one had some good advice which I intend to follow through on. We have had a good marriage for 6 years now and this is the first issue to come up that wasn't solved immediately. I would like to note that after working for him for only 3 weeks she gave him a red lapel rose while they were on a day long trip alone. He also went out of his way to pick her up from her house. He has assured me that there is nothing going on and I believe him. The only doubt is why does he feel he has to socialize every day at lunch when he says he doesn't like her.

Oh dear. There are some red flags here.

You wrote...

"I would like to note that after working for him for only 3 weeks she gave him a red lapel rose while they were on a day long trip alone."

She gave him red rose? A day trip alone? Red flags waving here.

"He also went out of his way to pick her up from her house. He has assured me that there is nothing going on and I believe him."

But you've still got doubts or you wouldn't have posted this query. And you're right to have doubts. I don't want to be the bearer of bad tidings but it looks bad to me.

"The only doubt is why does he feel he has to socialize every day at lunch when he says he doesn't like her."

This is very suspicious. No-one socialises frequently with a person they don't like. If he'd admitted to an attraction but said that he recognised the dangers and was being careful I'd be less concerned. Obviously he likes her.

Work relationships are particularly dangerous because he sees so much of her without your knowledge. Have you called in at his office to see her and size her up? Suggest you do so.

I totally agree with lovesaved... big red flags... her buying him a rose, would you do that for your boss? of only three weeks? she likes him... (and she moves fast)...
he went out his way to pick her up at her house... not good... did he drop her off too? It would only take a "harmless" "want to come in for a minute?"
Is your work or home situation such that you could meet him for lunch a couple times a week? just to break up the frequency of their rendezvous... or try surprising him and see how off guard he acts... I would definitely check her out to know what you're dealing with, if you haven't already.
I hope you're right and he's being honest, but how many guys wouldn't be a bit drawn to a woman who puts a rose on his lapel? a lot of men would be attracted to that because it's a bold move, she's risky and that's exciting...
You need to talk to him more about it, as graciously as you can... if he is being honest and totally faithful, he should see that he needs to put some distance between the two of them, out of respect for you, and out of concern for your future.

Dear JB,

Raz and I often have different aporaches. There is certainly merit to her suggestions.

One differfent approach I would suggest for consideration is recommended in the 180 Degree Divorce Busters. That recommendation is not to check on what your spouse is doing, with the idea of focusing on your part in being a happy, vibrant person, and making the marriage a work of art. In MB terms, maximize the number and quality of your love deposits to your Husband's love bank.

I would suggest that listening to your husband say that he does not like his secretary, is probably less of an important indicator than the social time they spend together. Are you available for lunch? It seems that he could meet you for lunch once in a while, just to get the point accross that you are number ONE.

How about call around your friends to find some eligible bachelors, and have your husband fix his secretary up with a bachelor friend of your friends? You could just say, "Sally has this nephew Sam, and Sam has got a great job, but he is still single. Why don't you see if you can get your secretary to go out with Sam?"

The response you get should give you some real direct information, without you having to snoop around.

One problem with snooping around, is that you may find something suspicious, which has a reasonable, and truly innocent explanation.

When you discover suspiscious information by snooping, you will unavoidably be perturbed, and feeling a victim of deceipt. When you confront your husband, he is going to feel violated by your snooping, and feel that the trust in the marriage is reduced, and a downward spiral can start up, with greater secrecy and less trust, more feeling betrayed, anger, etc.

You can make sure your husband's secretary has plenty of guys calling her up for dates.

Blessings,

Quipper
Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging kids, still struggling

<small>[ November 09, 2003, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Quipper,
Keep doing the good Work! God used your reply to give me the insight and wisdom I needed for this issue. The truth being that God is looking out for me and my husband and anybody wants our marriage complete, it's Him. This is a late in life marriage, I was a widow and he divorced. We both have grown children, grandchildren and a full life before we married. God has allowed us to find a great deal of happiness and we have just started going to church together and feel that the enemy is the one causing all this problem because he doesn't want us to get strong spiritually. My husband said yesterday morning(Sunday) let's go to church, we can't let the devil win this! We went and it was wonderful! I just wanted you to know that despite the other replies, God used you to help, THANK YOU!
Jama

God knows everything and it's all part of His plan - the answers you didn't like as well as those you did.

Both Quipper and Raz gave good positive suggestions and I suggest you act on them. Do not be complacent. This is not what you want to hear but your husband is clearly having an emotional affair with his secretary. In your heart you know this to be true but for reasons I completely understand you don't want to accept it.

OK your husband went with you to church. It's a positive step, but it doesn't address the issue of his relationship with his secretary.

For the sake of your marriage you need to nip this in the bud.

My spouse and I once listened to a marriage seminar by Ziz Zigler. He stated that he did not go to lunch with his secretary or do anything that would look suspicious because he loved his wife enough not to ever cause her grief in this way. He never wanted her to have to doubt or be hurt by something so simple.

We thought it was great advice.

I understand what you are saying and how you are feeling. Why don't you ask your husband how he would feel if you hired someone to do some things around the house and then took the guy you hired to lunch?
It's just an idea to consider and talk with your husband about.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

dean790 and all other interested parties:
Some may call me a fool but God calls me His child. I counted on Him and He came through. I prayed and calmly told my husband how his lunches affected me and how I felt. That was a week ago and Friday he told me he had told his boss that he didn't think it was proper for his secretary to go anymore. Sunday night my husband and me joined the church, both in agreement. Today he came home and said he had issued an immediate order that his secretary was to no longer have lunch with them. He said he explained that he was not comfortable with it. I have been practicing the Marriage Builders concepts and relating them to my husband and God has proved once again: His Way Is Best. I am rejoicing and pray you will to. Sincerely, Jama