Well, h took our four year old along to pick up oc. Other children and I waited for them at my parents house. H and son came back empty handed. This is what happened:<P>H got there and ow (who is NOT supposed to be present for visits at all) and her mother met him at the door, acting all nicey nice. He said he was immediately suspicious. Oc seemed ok with the idea of going with them, but as they were walking out of the door, she turned around and bolted back inside and started crying that she didn't want to go. H told our son to get in the van and went back inside. He calmly told oc that she needed to go with him, and explained to ow and her mother that he had specific instructions for C&Y to take oc with him even if she cried about it. They said, "Go ahead." He picked up oc and carried her to the van, trying to calm her down. she went into a huge fit, yelling and hitting him. The grandmother's boyfriend raced out, grabbed h by the shoulder, spun him around and said, "she's not going anywhere with you" and grabbed oc out of his arms and shut the door in h's face. H got in the van and came to my parents' house.<P>we called C&Y, and once again got an on-call caseworker who didn't know anything about our situation. He said he would take down our report and give it to our caseworker first thing in the morning. <P>Five minutes later, ow called my parents' house and asked for h. I gave him the phone. she said, "If you want to see oc, you can come HERE and play with her HERE." H said, "That's not what is court ordered. We're to have four hours unsupervised time." Ow said, "but she is too tired to go anywhere with you. If you want to see her it will have to be here." H said, "You lost custody! You can't tell me when and how I can see my daughter. I have a court order that says I am to take her for four hours today." Ow said, "then you won't see her at all today." I was listening in and lost my cool and said very loudly near the phone receiver, "That's fine. We're going to take y ou and your mother directly to *&%$%^& court for contempt. Then we WILL have custody. Make no mistake about it." Ow said, "I'm talking to YOU, not HER." I said, "That's too bad. If you didn't want me in your life, you should have stayed away from mine. We'll see you in court." Ow said, "you two think you are so high and mighty with all of your money (what?!? we have money?!?) You do what ever you want to do." H said "Fine" and hung up and we called our lawyer. H is to meet with lawyer after work tomorrow to get contempt of court papers filed. Meanwhile, he will speak to our caseworker first thing in the morning.<P>It was extremely frustrating for us, because we had to tell our 9 year old, who was waiting anxiously to meet oc, that he couldn't meet his sister today after all.<P>My dog is still lost. H is looking for her now. Please keep praying about that, and also that C&Y get on the ball and take some action in our favor over this ridiculous behavior.<P>Thanks!<BR>cd

My goodness cd! I don't believe it. I mean after all that you've gone through how can you not just throw in the towel?<P>Makes me rethink about our visits. Maybe if we wait till child is older he'll do the same things.<P>Then again if we seek visits now SHE may do what yours is doing.<P>Bless you sweetie. Hang in there you tough girl!<P>Let us know about your doggie too.<P>love<BR>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

CD,<P>I too don't know how you hang in there. I don't think I would have the strength. I will keep you and your family in my prayers.<P>MJ

CD,<BR>I'm so sorry to hear it. Given everything that 'family' has done, I suspect they coached the child to act like that. They are truly abusive.<P>Prayers,<BR>J

CD,<P>I don't know what to say! I am so sorry to hear that the OW and her "family" were so cruel to Darling and your family! I hope that the courts system works in your favor this time! Not only did they ignore the court order for unsupervised visitation, but the OW ignored the fact that she was not to be around during the visitation! I will be praying for you and your situation, earnestly!<P>I also hope that you dog returns soon!<P>Love and prayers,<P>Tigger

cd collins:<BR>Hi I know I don't post much, but I have followed your story and am very impressed with you and the strength you have showed. I have a few suggestions:<P>Can you not go to the local police station with the court order and have a police officer help you enforce the order of visitation? If necessary have a letter from C&Y stating you are to have the visitation even if the other child is throwing a fit (likely because she has been coached too).<P>Another alternative is to go to court and ask the court for visitation that is to start on Friday afternoon until Saturday or Sunday afternoon. And all pick ups are to be at the C&Y office. That way if OW and mother make any attempt to not show up or cause problems C&Y will be direct witnesses to it. <P>I don't know if either of these will work but I would definately try both. And even though it may be difficult on all of you to insist little Darling come with you if she is throwing a fit, I guarantee you as soon as your around the block the fit will cease. That is the case with most children who are coaxed into doing that by there parents.<P>Either way my prayers are with you.<BR>

cd:<P>Whoa. I'm at a loss. How devastating for you, your H, your 9 yo and poor Darling, who was obviously coached.<P>I agree completely with maritalbliss...her suggestions were excellent.<P>How disappointing, cd...you and yours are in my prayers.<P>Love<P>Catnip =^^=

Thanks to all for the encouraging words.<P>Right now I am riding on a wave of pure fury at this latest setback, and I hate to think what I'll feel like tomorrow when the anger's gone. Right now it is masking the heartache, but I know I'll be in for it later.<P>I am sure that oc was coached to respond to h like that. H said he was immediately suspicious when ow and grandmonster were acting smarmy-polite to him. I wish now that I would have told h to go directly to the police and file charges against the grandmothers boyfriend. I know they couldn't really arrest him for assault, since he didn't actually hit h or anything, but I think we should have gotten it on record that he grabbed my h and forcibly took oc from him. anyway, we'll see what C&y have to say about it and go from there.<P>In a way, I am so mad with C&Y, because we have been telling them for weeks that this is a hostile situation, and they keep telling us we have to go back there to get oc. Just this past Wednesday, I called the caseworker and asked if we could meet oc in a nuetral place, like a restaurant or playground, and caseworker said, "That's a great idea, but its not in the court order, so we cant do it." What is next? What are they gonna do when grandma's boyfriend meets us at the door with a shotgun? It's just outrageous that we have to go through so much just to prove we're interested in oc's welfare.<P>I am so sick and tired of ow. What nerve she has calling MY parents house with her half-a$$ "deals", offering to let us see oc only on HER terms, despite the court order, and yelping about the fact that I am commenting in the background. Who does she think she is, anyway? They all act like I am the one who slept with HER husband. Sometimes I do feel like throwing in the towel. I am so sick and tired of the ongoing drama. I am starting to ask myself what I am doing to myself, and what we are doing to our children, exposing them to this kind of crap? sometimes I think we'd be better off paying the blood money (cs) and staying as far away from ow and her trashy family as humanly possible.<P>Maritalbliss's ideas are wonderful, however c&Y will not deviate from the court order, which says that we have to do four hour unsupervised visits first. However, I am going to tell my h that he needs to insist on police escort next time. this has gone far enough.<P>somebody please remind me how important it is for me to stay committed to being in this child's life. I know she needs us. You know, this week I was so proud of myself because I (finally!) framed some photos we took of oc and put them around the house.<P>I don't know how ANYBODY can say that contact is the right choice for everybody. anybody who insists on making that kind of blanket statement certainly has no idea how horrible this can be, even when the bs is going into it with the best of intentions, even when the bs is absolutely committed to accepting and loving the oc.<P>I am tired and I miss my dog.<BR>-cd<BR>

Cd, I am so so so sorry to hear how today turned out for you. The hurt and pain you are going through really moves me, and can truely be felt through this last post by you. I hope you can stay strong and keep your chin up, you have come so far and done so well for months now. Do not give up, you asked to be reminded of why your family should be involved and I hope I am helping. My children look forward to the weekly visits with the oc and I too have felt their disappointment when the ow has thrown crap at us the morning of a visit. We really have been there done that. Our situations are so similar we are a little ahead of you in the game, but not much. We are up to seven hours of unsupervised once a week, but believe me we run into dead ends and hositlity from ow every other weekend. Lately things have been quiet for a few weeks, I think the heat is getting to the ow and she is 9 months preg. so she is not causing many problems. We have a court date set, so I am just going to wait and see. C&Y really needs to intervene for you guys, a neutral site is probably the best thing, but that would mean another court date to get it court ordered. An idea, this is what I am doing next time we go to court, to save time and money of having to return back to court each time you need an order changed or something added to it, we are going to try and get a court order that covers a time line, as we too needed first it be introduced and then supervised and now unsupervised. But now we are trying for longer unsupervised and overnights. So the lawyer is going to request a gradual increase that covers a large block of time and includes all holidays and birthdays. This way we will not have to return to court each time we want to extend time it will all be figured in. You and your family as well as your oc,s well being are in my thoughts and prayers. I will keep the good thoughts that your little basset girl will return to you very soon. Peace, Gabi1116

Nosetta,<P>I just don’t get it. I can’t understand why she’s fighting you so hard. All she’s doing is causing that little girl harm, when she could easily give her the best of a bad situation if she would just set her feelings aside and think of her daughter. It turns my stomach. I was wondering, due to the hostility and unwillingness to cooperate, maybe you can have the order changed to obligate her to meet you in a neutral location i.e. the local police department. Right now, going to her mother’s home makes her feel like she has the upper hand. It gives her too much control and power to f**k things up (forgive me). By meeting in a neutral zone, you diffuse the situation a little...take the wind out of her sales. The police department would be ideal. Also, maybe think about having an order for the Grandma’s BF to quit interfering or be charged with violating a court order. I say throw ‘em all in the clink!<P>Claudia<BR>

CD & OB1,<P>I have been thinking about this OW's families behaviour, and this is what I think is happening, and why. They are trying to thwart your efforts at every turn to make any bond w/Darling to serve their own selfish needs! Why? Because they see Darling as their meal ticket! All three of them, OW, OW's M, and M's BF, are benifitting from the CS that is paid for Darling! They are trying to plant fear of your H in Darling's mind, and since they are refusing to comply with the court order, they are just about succeeding! I too feel that if it happens again, that you use your cell phone to call the police and plant your a$$ on the front doorstep till the cops arrive!<P>I really hope that the C&Y don't screw this up again for you!! You were told to call if there was a problem, made to believe that if there was, they would be there to correct it, and they dropped the ball!!! It really pi$$es me off to see that when you did call, like they told you to, you, yet again, got someone who didn't know what the situation was!!! I also hope that she and her family just signed their papers that will take Darling away from them, and place her in your loving arms!! I know how much you have already come to love this little girl, and that your boys are so excited to meet their "new" sister, and OW's family is mucking it up for you!<P>I'm sorry, but reading this thread again has really made me angry for you! I will pray that the OW and her family will reap what they have sewn, and God will allow you and H to have a MAJOR hand in raising Darling up in the loving household you all live in!!!<P>I love you guys for what you have been going through, and pray for you to finally have peace with this situation! I also pray for your puppy, that she returns soon!<P>Love,<P>Tigger

CD...I was about to post my own thread regarding the very same issue, entitled 'Selfhish a@# XOW who can't stand the thought that their child may have an opportunity at a better childhood than theirs'.<P>It amazes me that she came back into your lives after first wanting to just walk away from the whole thing. Does she just think she can just keep messing with you guys without repurcussion? The most amazing thing of all is that it should be obvious to the authorities that you and your H care so much more for this child than she does. Your H obviously cared enough to just walk away instead of cleaning the old man's clock for putting his hands on him and snatching his daughter from his arms. If she did care for this little girl she wouldn't put her through this unecessary drama. She cares about two things, and in the following order 1. Herself and her own selfish needs and 2. getting back at your H and you for posessing more than she'll ever have (love, tried and true). Even if it means hurting her own daughter in the process. <P>I would tell you to hang in there, but I'm at a point to where I'm doing my own reality check. The reality is this: I don't have any selfish motives in supporting my H in being a part of this little girl's life. I even welcome her into my life as well. But how much more muck should we have to take in order to do what's right for the baby? I sense you are asking yourself the same question. It's true, she needs you and your H in her life to see life as it SHOULD be. But at what cost??? We tried mediation to no avail. You've tried the C&Y method and it seems to be in vain. All of this for what???<P>In our situation, it looks like we’ll be going to court anyway. We tried to negotiate for time with the baby. We want every other weekend and summers. We stared the negotiation talks with the every other weekend time frame and didn’t get very far after that. Her job schedule does not permit for weekend visitation. We suggested that whomever she leaves the baby with on the weekends should be able to allow us 2 hours every other weekend. She didn’t quite like that idea even though her father is the one who keeps the baby on the weekends. She asserts that the baby needs to be in a comfortable environment during the visitation….we couldn’t agree more, but it seems her definition of comfortable means that she is present.<P>Just to give you an idea of how out of touch with reality she is….here’s a snapshot of one of the conversations I had with her during mediation:<BR>‘All of us agree that the baby deserves to be in a comfortable environment and around people she knows when she’s getting to know us. We also agree that she deserves a consistent routine for visitation from the start i.e…every other weekend. As far as we’re concerned, if we’re willing to meet with your father every other weekend for the visitation then we’ve met the baby’s needs. Since that’s what this meeting is about, the baby's needs, then that arrangement should suffice, she get’s to know her father’s side of the family in a comfortable, routinely manner. ‘<BR>She responds that she must be there and for personal reasons (gee, wonder what those are) that her father cannot facilitate the visitation for us. I then told her that this situation is all about the baby’s needs being met, not her needs, and that this meeting/negotiation wasn’t about what she, the mother, needed.<P>…she responded that this was about her needs?!?!?<P>Case closed, we’ll have to let a lawyer and a judge decide what’s best.<P>I feel like we've fallen into the abyss of court and case worker hell. Is there ANYONE on this board that will tell CD and the rest of us fighting for the basics that our labor is NOT in vain???<P>

Dear CD,<P>I am sorry to hear this, how cruel ow is,she has gone too far this time, can't she see how she's hurting her own child. Cd I do admire your strenght, how you put up with this. <BR>Report this to the court, the best thing that can happen if you and your h will get custody.<P>Keep us post, <P>love and prayers<P><p>[This message has been edited by mina29 (edited August 13, 2001).]

CD,<P>Just wanted to chime in that you are fighting the good fight. Just try and think of all this bullstuff you are going through as an investment. Your dividends will pay later.<P>She is seriously withdrawing all her credibility with the courts and C&Y.<P>And every time you keep coming back as professional and together, you gain more and more credibility.<P>This cycle will pay off. And one day Darling will be grateful that she was able to grow up in your loving care.<P>How rewarding for you to look at her at graduation and see she's grown to be a well rounded young adult who is emotionally stable and happy. It will be because of you and this fight. I guarantee it WILL pay off!<P>I also like the idea of having a police escort. Get the C&Y order to take her even if she's crying and your court order and "hire" the sherriff to escort you. They hire out for service of suppenea (spelling?) and for hourly security. Just make some calls to the local PD or sherriffs office and see if you can hire one for an hour. We hire ours for security in the store for $25/hour.<P>I bet you won't get any grief if that car is sitting outside. Plus I worry that boyfriend may try to take things into his own hands.<P>Keep your head up.<BR>Z.<P>------------------<BR>Zebra Baby ...<P>Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.